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* Test email
@ 2020-07-09  5:15 Rafi Khan
  2020-07-09  7:31 ` Alberto Luaces
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Rafi Khan @ 2020-07-09  5:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english


Hi all,

I am new to gnus and mailing lists and have just setup Emacs with GNUS
and my email account.

This is just a test email so that I can confirm things are setup as
intended.

Further, is there a guide I can read to learn more about how to use
mailing lists? There's a lot of terminology in the gnus documentation
which I am unfamiliar with such as "post", "news" and "group". Some of
this can be inferred from the documentation and context but others are
not so clear to me.

Thanks,
Rafi Khan


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-07-09  5:15 Test email Rafi Khan
@ 2020-07-09  7:31 ` Alberto Luaces
  2020-07-10  0:14   ` Rafi Khan
  2020-07-09  8:17 ` Test email Dmitry Alexandrov
  2020-08-06 12:53 ` Test email 황병희
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Alberto Luaces @ 2020-07-09  7:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Rafi Khan writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I am new to gnus and mailing lists and have just setup Emacs with GNUS
> and my email account.
>
> This is just a test email so that I can confirm things are setup as
> intended.
>

Congratulations, it is working!

>
> Further, is there a guide I can read to learn more about how to use
> mailing lists? There's a lot of terminology in the gnus documentation
> which I am unfamiliar with such as "post", "news" and "group". Some of
> this can be inferred from the documentation and context but others are
> not so clear to me.

I don't know any, but I guess you are welcome to ask these things as you
need them.

That terminology comes from NNTP, which translated to today's terms
(although it is still in use, by the way) would be the (roughly)
equivalent of a forum read by "email".  "Post" is still a post, a
message like this one; "news" would be the whole forum, hosting "groups"
— its channels, or mailing lists in email terms.

-- 
Alberto


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-07-09  5:15 Test email Rafi Khan
  2020-07-09  7:31 ` Alberto Luaces
@ 2020-07-09  8:17 ` Dmitry Alexandrov
       [not found]   ` <87imewz0ui.fsf@rafikhan.io>
  2020-08-06 12:53 ` Test email 황병희
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Alexandrov @ 2020-07-09  8:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rafi Khan; +Cc: info-gnus-english

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Rafi Khan <rafi@rafikhan.io> wrote:
> I am new to gnus and mailing lists and have just setup Emacs with GNUS and my email account.

Welcome!

> This is just a test email so that I can confirm things are setup as intended.

You are posting via Gmane, are not you?  Thatʼs sort of fine for that list (and any list on (non)gnu.org), but not for every one on the Net.  Posting in a normal way — by mailing to a list address (here: info-gnus-english@gnu.org) via your mailserver (smtp.googlemail.com in your case) is generally more reliable.

> Further, is there a guide I can read to learn more about how to use mailing lists?

Lots of such guides were accumulated over the Net for decades, but I do not know any, thatʼs worth reading.  They commonly contain not very relevant info, that overwhelm the newcomer, often — local-specific and outdated info, and sometimes — simply bullshit.

Basically, there is nothing to explain: mailing lists are supposed to be naturally familiar for anyone who is familiar with mail, that is simply to anyone.  And despite all the joint efforts of some list-hosters, mail useragent designers and individuals to derail it, they are mostly indeed are.

The only mistake UI designers succeeded to teach users, though, is to to command ‘Reply to sender only’ instead of ‘Reply to all’, which is of course is not what you want while discussing things publicly.  Yet in too many MUAs the latter in too concealed.  Gnus, of course, is not one those, so you are safe here.

> There's a lot of terminology in the gnus documentation ‹…› Some of this can be inferred from the documentation and context, but others are not so clear to me.

Feel free to ask.

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_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-07-09  7:31 ` Alberto Luaces
@ 2020-07-10  0:14   ` Rafi Khan
  2020-07-10  7:54     ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
  2020-07-10 13:18     ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ (was: Test email) Dmitry Alexandrov
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Rafi Khan @ 2020-07-10  0:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Alberto Luaces <aluaces@udc.es> writes:

> Congratulations, it is working!

Awesome :D
> I don't know any, but I guess you are welcome to ask these things as you
> need them.

Thanks!

So a few questions already.

1. I am using Gmail as the backend and received Dmitry Alexandrov's
reply in my inbox, but for some reason your reply wasn't there. I am
replying to you from the gmane group in gnus.

2. What is the difference between replying and forwarding in mailing
lists?

Should I be doing "F" or "R". They seems similar when the compose window
is created, hence my confusion.

Thanks,
Rafi


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Get list address for Gmane group (was: Test email)
       [not found]   ` <87imewz0ui.fsf@rafikhan.io>
@ 2020-07-10  4:26     ` Dmitry Alexandrov
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Alexandrov @ 2020-07-10  4:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rafi Khan; +Cc: info-gnus-english

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Rafi Khan <rafi@rafikhan.io> wrote:
> Dmitry Alexandrov <dag@gnui.org> writes:
>> Posting in a normal way — by mailing to a list address (here: info-gnus-english@gnu.org) via your mailserver (smtp.googlemail.com in your case) is generally more reliable.
>
> Is there a way for me to get the mailing list address for a gmane news group from inside gnus

Yes, but itʼs not implemented.  So try that instead: navigate to some message, that was posted there and only there (no crossposts) and command A M (M-x gnus-mailing-list-insinuate) — Gnus will try to populate ‘list-to’ group parameter from ‘List-Post’ header.

> so I can compose directly that way?

If there is no ‘List-Post’ header, there is still nothing hard in guessing it from ‘To’ / ‘Cc’ headers, so:

	(setq gnus-add-to-list t)

and copy-paste it for the first time manually [1].

[1] (info "(gnus) Group Parameters").

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_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-07-10  0:14   ` Rafi Khan
@ 2020-07-10  7:54     ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
  2020-07-10 23:47       ` Rafi Khan
  2020-07-10 13:18     ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ (was: Test email) Dmitry Alexandrov
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english @ 2020-07-10  7:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Rafi writes:

> 1. I am using Gmail as the backend and received Dmitry Alexandrov's
> reply in my inbox, but for some reason your reply wasn't there. I am
> replying to you from the gmane group in gnus.

It's a common "problem" with mailing lists: Some people reply both to
the mailing list and directly to the person, some people only reply to
the mailing list.

The first strategy is useful if the person writing on the mailing list
isn't subscribed to it. (I find that an odd thing to do, and with Gmane,
where following a mailing list is very low friction, even more so).

There are some headers you can set to indicate your preference, but not
many email clients understand them.

> 2. What is the difference between replying and forwarding in mailing
> lists?

I think you are thinking of R.eply and F.ollow up?

For newsgroups (e.g. Gmane) R sends to the author only, and F sends to
the group. (S W sends to both.)

For email, you can think of R in Gnus as "Reply", and F as "Reply All".

It's more complicated than that (of course, this is Emacs), but it's a
reasonable first approximation.

F and R quote the previous email, f and r don't.

I usually want to follow up in the newsgroup, rather than replying only
to the author, so to be reminded if I hit the wrong button, I've (asked
around, and somebody provided this small snippet to) add to my ~/.gnus:

  ; Warn if replying from a newsgroup:
  (defadvice gnus-summary-reply (around asjo-reply-in-news activate)
    (interactive)
    (when (or (not (gnus-news-group-p gnus-newsgroup-name))
              (y-or-n-p "Really reply? "))
      ad-do-it))

which makes Gnus ask me if I really want to email the author instead of
following up in the newsgroup, if I happen to.


  Best reards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Ride the tail of rhyme                                    Adam Sjøgren
  Break the legs of time                               asjo@koldfront.dk
  Snap its spine"


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ (was: Test email)
  2020-07-10  0:14   ` Rafi Khan
  2020-07-10  7:54     ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
@ 2020-07-10 13:18     ` Dmitry Alexandrov
  2020-07-10 14:14       ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ Alberto Luaces
                         ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Alexandrov @ 2020-07-10 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rafi Khan; +Cc: asjo, info-gnus-english

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Rafi Khan <rafi@rafikhan.io> wrote:
> Alberto Luaces <aluaces@udc.es> writes:
> 1. I am using Gmail as the backend and received Dmitry Alexandrov's reply in my inbox, but for some reason your reply wasn't there.

He have not addressed you for some reason, cf. ‘To’ and (absent) ‘Cc’ headers in his mail.  While they are merely informational, they are usually true.


> 2. What is the difference between replying and forwarding in mailing lists?
>
> Should I be doing "F" or "R".

‘r’ and ‘R’¹ are above-mentioned ‘reply to sender only’ commands.  Indeed, docstring (<f1> k r) is unclear:

| (gnus-summary-reply &optional YANK WIDE VERY-WIDE)
|
| Start composing a mail reply to the current message.
| If prefix argument YANK is non-nil, the original article is yanked
| automatically.
| If WIDE, make a wide reply.
| If VERY-WIDE, make a very wide reply.

Manual entry (<f1> K r) is fine, though:

| ‘S r’
| ‘r’
|      Mail a reply to the author of the current article
|      (‘gnus-summary-reply’).

In other words, these are rarely needed commands.  The need to drop extra recipients from reply is rare, and even in these cases itʼs often easier just to purge ‘Cc’ line.


As for ‘f’ and ‘F’, they do _not_ stay for ‘forwarding’, but for ‘following-up’.  Contrary to what @asjo@koldfront.dk have said [0], they are _not_ for posting to [news]group only, but are supposed to be ‘do what I mean’ commands for replying: in Usenet — post to group (S n), in mail — reply to all (S w).

‘DWIM’ breaks, though, when you are reading mail gatewayed to Usenet or an isolated NNTP server such as Gmane.

Then you have to mark newsgroups that are really mailing lists first.  You can do that on one by one basis by setting ‘to-list’ parameter on them — Iʼve already explained how to do that [1], but really you want to mark all mail-to-news groups at once:

	(setq gnus-mailing-list-groups
	      (rx bol (opt "nntp" (1+ nonl) ":") (or "gmane."
	                                             "linux."
	                                             "mozilla.")))

Now you can use ‘f’ / ‘F’ instead of ‘S w’ / ‘S W’ just as intended.

[0] <875zaverel.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk>
[1] <eepkuhaa.dag@gnui.org>

-
¹ FWIW, I suggest you to use lower-case variants, followed by C-c C-y if you need quotation.

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_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’
  2020-07-10 13:18     ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ (was: Test email) Dmitry Alexandrov
@ 2020-07-10 14:14       ` Alberto Luaces
  2020-07-10 15:28       ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
  2020-07-10 23:51       ` Rafi Khan
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Alberto Luaces @ 2020-07-10 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Dmitry Alexandrov <dag@gnui.org> writes:

> Rafi Khan <rafi@rafikhan.io> wrote:
>> Alberto Luaces <aluaces@udc.es> writes:
>> 1. I am using Gmail as the backend and received Dmitry Alexandrov's reply in my inbox, but for some reason your reply wasn't there.
>
> He have not addressed you for some reason, cf. ‘To’ and (absent) ‘Cc’ headers in his mail.  While they are merely informational, they are usually true.
>

Yes, I tend to not send personal copies to avoid cluttering the inbox of
the addressees, because they are usually following the list, after all.

Another side effect is that you can inadvertently reply also personally
to those emails, so the conversation will not be registered on the list,
nor the other participants will see it.

To reply this way (for example, this very message) I just press "F", as
Dmitry explains.

-- 
Alberto


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’
  2020-07-10 13:18     ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ (was: Test email) Dmitry Alexandrov
  2020-07-10 14:14       ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ Alberto Luaces
@ 2020-07-10 15:28       ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
  2020-07-10 23:51       ` Rafi Khan
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english @ 2020-07-10 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Dmitry writes:

> As for ‘f’ and ‘F’, they do _not_ stay for ‘forwarding’, but for
> ‘following-up’. Contrary to what @asjo@koldfront.dk have said [0],
> they are _not_ for posting to [news]group only,

This is what I wrote:

  For newsgroups (e.g. Gmane) R sends to the author only, and F sends to
  the group. (S W sends to both.)

  For email, you can think of R in Gnus as "Reply", and F as "Reply All".

I don't understand how you get from that to '"F" is for newsgroups
only' - that is clearly not what I wrote.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Well, you walk into the room like a camel and then        Adam Sjøgren
  you frown  You put your eyes in your pocket an your  asjo@koldfront.dk
  nose on the ground"


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info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-07-10  7:54     ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
@ 2020-07-10 23:47       ` Rafi Khan
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Rafi Khan @ 2020-07-10 23:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english; +Cc: Adam Sjøgren

Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english <info-gnus-english@gnu.org> writes:

Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english <info-gnus-english@gnu.org> writes:

> The first strategy is useful if the person writing on the mailing list
> isn't subscribed to it. (I find that an odd thing to do, and with Gmane,
> where following a mailing list is very low friction, even more so).

I see, thank you for the explanation! I'm starting to understand now.

Thanks,
Rafi


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’
  2020-07-10 13:18     ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ (was: Test email) Dmitry Alexandrov
  2020-07-10 14:14       ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ Alberto Luaces
  2020-07-10 15:28       ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
@ 2020-07-10 23:51       ` Rafi Khan
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Rafi Khan @ 2020-07-10 23:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dmitry Alexandrov; +Cc: asjo, info-gnus-english


Hi,

Thank you for the thorough explanation. It has been very helpful.
> Then you have to mark newsgroups that are really mailing lists first.  You can do that on one by one basis by setting ‘to-list’ parameter on them — Iʼve already explained how to do that [1], but really you want to mark all mail-to-news groups at once:
>
> 	(setq gnus-mailing-list-groups
> 	      (rx bol (opt "nntp" (1+ nonl) ":") (or "gmane."
> 	                                             "linux."
> 	                                             "mozilla.")))
>
> Now you can use ‘f’ / ‘F’ instead of ‘S w’ / ‘S W’ just as intended.

Perfect, I've added those lines to my configuration. I think it is working properly now.

Thanks,
Rafi

_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-07-09  5:15 Test email Rafi Khan
  2020-07-09  7:31 ` Alberto Luaces
  2020-07-09  8:17 ` Test email Dmitry Alexandrov
@ 2020-08-06 12:53 ` 황병희
  2020-08-07  4:01   ` Rafi Khan
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: 황병희 @ 2020-08-06 12:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Hellow Rafi^^^

Rafi Khan <rafi@rafikhan.io> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I am new to gnus and mailing lists and have just setup Emacs with GNUS
> and my email account.
>
> This is just a test email so that I can confirm things are setup as
> intended.
>
> Further, is there a guide I can read to learn more about how to use
> mailing lists? There's a lot of terminology in the gnus documentation
> which I am unfamiliar with such as "post", "news" and "group". Some of
> this can be inferred from the documentation and context but others are
> not so clear to me.
>
> Thanks,
> Rafi Khan

Welcome to the Gnus World^^^ Plus [1] looks good.
Most Gnus fan are at there [1].

[1] gmane.emacs.gnus.general

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _和合團結_ 감사합니다_^))//


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-08-06 12:53 ` Test email 황병희
@ 2020-08-07  4:01   ` Rafi Khan
  2020-08-08  2:31     ` 황병희
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Rafi Khan @ 2020-08-07  4:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 황병희; +Cc: info-gnus-english

Hi Byung-Hee

soyeomul@doraji.xyz (황병희) writes:
> Welcome to the Gnus World^^^ Plus [1] looks good.
> Most Gnus fan are at there [1].
>
> [1] gmane.emacs.gnus.general

Awesome thanks, I am now subscribed :D

Thanks,
Rafi

_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-08-07  4:01   ` Rafi Khan
@ 2020-08-08  2:31     ` 황병희
  2020-08-08 15:39       ` Emanuel Berg via info-gnus-english
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: 황병희 @ 2020-08-08  2:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Dear Rafi,

Rafi Khan <rafi@rafikhan.io> writes:

> Hi Byung-Hee
>
> soyeomul@doraji.xyz (황병희) writes:
>> Welcome to the Gnus World^^^ Plus [1] looks good.
>> Most Gnus fan are at there [1].
>>
>> [1] gmane.emacs.gnus.general
>
> Awesome thanks, I am now subscribed :D
>
> Thanks,
> Rafi

Again thanks for using Gnus^^^
And thanks for using *BSD^^^ (from berkeley-unix)

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//


_______________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Test email
  2020-08-08  2:31     ` 황병희
@ 2020-08-08 15:39       ` Emanuel Berg via info-gnus-english
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via info-gnus-english @ 2020-08-08 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Be sure to add these groups, as well as
gmane.emacs.gnus.user ( = this one)

  gmane.discuss
  gmane.emacs.help
  gmane.emacs.gnus.general
  gmane.test

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-07-09  5:15 Test email Rafi Khan
2020-07-09  7:31 ` Alberto Luaces
2020-07-10  0:14   ` Rafi Khan
2020-07-10  7:54     ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
2020-07-10 23:47       ` Rafi Khan
2020-07-10 13:18     ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ (was: Test email) Dmitry Alexandrov
2020-07-10 14:14       ` ‘Reply’ vs ‘followup’ Alberto Luaces
2020-07-10 15:28       ` Adam Sjøgren via info-gnus-english
2020-07-10 23:51       ` Rafi Khan
2020-07-09  8:17 ` Test email Dmitry Alexandrov
     [not found]   ` <87imewz0ui.fsf@rafikhan.io>
2020-07-10  4:26     ` Get list address for Gmane group (was: Test email) Dmitry Alexandrov
2020-08-06 12:53 ` Test email 황병희
2020-08-07  4:01   ` Rafi Khan
2020-08-08  2:31     ` 황병희
2020-08-08 15:39       ` Emanuel Berg via info-gnus-english

Unnamed repository; edit this file 'description' to name the repository.

Archives are clonable: git clone --mirror http://inbox.vuxu.org/info-gnus-english

Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://inbox.vuxu.org/vuxu.archive.emacs.gnus.user


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git