[TUHS] Can't load split I&D files (in one PDP-11/23 PLUS)

[TUHS] Can't load split I&D files (in one PDP-11/23 PLUS)

[SPC]

Well, the matter is simple: I'm trying to install 2.11 BSD in one PDP-11/23
PLUS with 4MB of ram, and the 'restor' and 'icheck' utilities don't load in
he PDP, returning this message:

  "Can't load split I&D files"

I tried with the diverse distributions of Vtserver and diverse versions of
'restor'. In the case of the 2.9BSD this don't happen but the utility can't
understand what is the 'vt' device.

Someone has encountered and solved this problem ?

Regards
Sergio
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[TUHS] Can't load split I&D files (in one PDP-11/23 PLUS)

[Wilko Bulte]

Quoting SPC, who wrote on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:57:47PM +0200 ..
> Well, the matter is simple: I'm trying to install 2.11 BSD in one PDP-11/23
> PLUS with 4MB of ram, and the 'restor' and 'icheck' utilities don't load in
> he PDP, returning this message:
> 
>   "Can't load split I&D files"
> 
> I tried with the diverse distributions of Vtserver and diverse versions of
> 'restor'. In the case of the 2.9BSD this don't happen but the utility can't
> understand what is the 'vt' device.
> 
> Someone has encountered and solved this problem ?

I could be wrong, but I think the 11/23 is not a split ID CPU?

Wilko

[TUHS] Can't load split I&D files (in one PDP-11/23 PLUS)

[Lyle Bickley]

On Thursday 25 June 2009, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> Quoting SPC, who wrote on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:57:47PM +0200 ..
> > Well, the matter is simple: I'm trying to install 2.11 BSD in one PDP-11/23
> > PLUS with 4MB of ram, and the 'restor' and 'icheck' utilities don't load in
> > he PDP, returning this message:
> > 
> >   "Can't load split I&D files"
> > 
> > I tried with the diverse distributions of Vtserver and diverse versions of
> > 'restor'. In the case of the 2.9BSD this don't happen but the utility can't
> > understand what is the 'vt' device.
> > 
> > Someone has encountered and solved this problem ?
> 
> I could be wrong, but I think the 11/23 is not a split ID CPU?

That's correct. The 11/23 supported 256K memory and separate Kernel and User but not separate
I&D.

An 11/73 does support separate I&D...

Regards,
Lyle

> 
> Wilko
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> 
> 


-- 
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

[TUHS] Can't load split I&D files (in one PDP-11/23 PLUS)

[Bill Pechter]

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On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Wilko Bulte<wb at freebie.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Quoting SPC, who wrote on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:57:47PM +0200 ..
>> Well, the matter is simple: I'm trying to install 2.11 BSD in one PDP-11/23
>> PLUS with 4MB of ram, and the 'restor' and 'icheck' utilities don't load in
>> he PDP, returning this message:
>>
>>   "Can't load split I&D files"
>>
>> I tried with the diverse distributions of Vtserver and diverse versions of
>> 'restor'. In the case of the 2.9BSD this don't happen but the utility can't
>> understand what is the 'vt' device.
>>
>> Someone has encountered and solved this problem ?
>
> I could be wrong, but I think the 11/23 is not a split ID CPU?
>
> Wilko
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>

IIRC --  Split I&D 11/45,11/50/11/55,11/70,11/44 and the 11/73 J11 and
11/83, 11/84, 11/94.

I think the 11/40 and the 11/34 didn't have it.  I don't think the
11/60 did either.
The 11/03, 11/23 and 11/23 plus and 11/24 didn't.

Bill
--
  d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
 pechter-at-gmail.com

[TUHS] Can't load split I&D files (in one PDP-11/23 PLUS)

[Pete Turnbull]

On 25/06/2009 21:49, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> Quoting SPC, who wrote on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:57:47PM +0200 ..
>> Well, the matter is simple: I'm trying to install 2.11 BSD in one PDP-11/23
>> PLUS with 4MB of ram, and the 'restor' and 'icheck' utilities don't load in
>> he PDP, returning this message:
>>
>>   "Can't load split I&D files"
>>
>> I tried with the diverse distributions of Vtserver and diverse versions of
>> 'restor'. In the case of the 2.9BSD this don't happen but the utility can't
>> understand what is the 'vt' device.
>>
>> Someone has encountered and solved this problem ?
> 
> I could be wrong, but I think the 11/23 is not a split ID CPU?

Correct, it isn't.  You cannot run 2.11BSD in a PDP-11/23 or similar 
machine because a lot of things in 2.11BSD require split I&D.  It's 
declared on the first page of the setup instructions:

    "This distribution can be booted on a PDP-11 with 1Mb of memory or
     more, separate I&D, and with any of the following disks:"

You need an 11/73 or better to have split I&D.  For those who might not 
know what that means, it refers to the processor's ability to keep 
I(nstructions) and D(ata) in separate spaces, so in effect virtually 
doubling the amount of memory that can be used.  That is, you can have 
(almost) 64K of instructions *and* (almost) 64K of data at the same 
time.  Without split I&D, you have 64K in total for both.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

[TUHS] Can't load split I&D files (in one PDP-11/23 PLUS)

[Wilko Bulte]

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Quoting Bill Pechter, who wrote on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 05:19:47PM -0400 ..
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Wilko Bulte<wb at freebie.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > Quoting SPC, who wrote on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:57:47PM +0200 ..
> >> Well, the matter is simple: I'm trying to install 2.11 BSD in one PDP-11/23
> >> PLUS with 4MB of ram, and the 'restor' and 'icheck' utilities don't load in
> >> he PDP, returning this message:
> >>
> >>   "Can't load split I&D files"
> >>
> >> I tried with the diverse distributions of Vtserver and diverse versions of
> >> 'restor'. In the case of the 2.9BSD this don't happen but the utility can't
> >> understand what is the 'vt' device.
> >>
> >> Someone has encountered and solved this problem ?
> >
> > I could be wrong, but I think the 11/23 is not a split ID CPU?
> >
> > Wilko
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
> 
> IIRC --  Split I&D 11/45,11/50/11/55,11/70,11/44 and the 11/73 J11 and
> 11/83, 11/84, 11/94.
> 
> I think the 11/40 and the 11/34 didn't have it.  I don't think the

I am sure the 11/34 did not, I used an 11/34 once with UNIX.

> 11/60 did either.
> The 11/03, 11/23 and 11/23 plus and 11/24 didn't.
> 
> Bill
> --
>   d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
>  pechter-at-gmail.com
--- End of quoted text ---

[TUHS] Can't load split I&D files (in one PDP-11/23 PLUS)

[Lyle Bickley]

On Thursday 25 June 2009, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> On 25/06/2009 21:49, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> > Quoting SPC, who wrote on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:57:47PM +0200 ..
> >> Well, the matter is simple: I'm trying to install 2.11 BSD in one PDP-11/23
> >> PLUS with 4MB of ram, and the 'restor' and 'icheck' utilities don't load in
> >> he PDP, returning this message:
> >>
> >>   "Can't load split I&D files"
> >>
> >> I tried with the diverse distributions of Vtserver and diverse versions of
> >> 'restor'. In the case of the 2.9BSD this don't happen but the utility can't
> >> understand what is the 'vt' device.
> >>
> >> Someone has encountered and solved this problem ?
> > 
> > I could be wrong, but I think the 11/23 is not a split ID CPU?
> 
> Correct, it isn't.  You cannot run 2.11BSD in a PDP-11/23 or similar 
> machine because a lot of things in 2.11BSD require split I&D.  It's 
> declared on the first page of the setup instructions:
> 
>     "This distribution can be booted on a PDP-11 with 1Mb of memory or
>      more, separate I&D, and with any of the following disks:"
> 
> You need an 11/73 or better to have split I&D.  For those who might not 
> know what that means, it refers to the processor's ability to keep 
> I(nstructions) and D(ata) in separate spaces, so in effect virtually 
> doubling the amount of memory that can be used.  That is, you can have 
> (almost) 64K of instructions *and* (almost) 64K of data at the same 
> time.  Without split I&D, you have 64K in total for both.

As Pete says, you can't run 2.11 on an 11/23.

However, I do run 2.9 BSD on my 11/34 as it does NOT require seperate I&D
as does 2.11 BSD.

Might want to try using 2.9 on your 11/23.  Here's the CPUs supported by
2.9 BSD:

11/23, 11/24, 11/34, 11/34A, 11/34C, 11/40, 11/44, 11/45, 11/55, 11/70

Min. required memory is 192K

Regards,
Lyle


-- 
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"