[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jason Stevens]

I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd share that
386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone to crashing),
however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then run on Qemu!
(0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is incompatible)

If anyone is interested, here is a link to a hard disk image that I've
prepared for Qemu:
http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/386BSD/bsd386.qcow2.gz

I run it like this:

qemu.exe -L pc-bios -hda bsd386.qcow2 -M isapc -net nic -net user -no-reboot
-m 256

And I can run lynx/irc as a test of the TCP/IP.

At any rate, I figure this kind of brings 386BSD back out of it's grave.
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Natalia Portillo]

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Hi,

El 17/04/2010, a las 06:12, Jason Stevens escribió:

> I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd share that 386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone to crashing), however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then run on Qemu! (0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is incompatible)
Is it possible to install it in QEMU at all without using another emulator? (hardware machine is ok)

Would you be able to contact in QEMU developer's list with SeaBIOS maintainer to find what makes it stop working on 0.12.x branch?

Would you mind putting the information about how to make it running, how well it runs, so on, on QEMU's officlal OS support list (at http://www.claunia.com/qemu/ )?

> If anyone is interested, here is a link to a hard disk image that I've prepared for Qemu:
> http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/386BSD/bsd386.qcow2.gz

Under what license is that operating system?

> I run it like this:
> 
> qemu.exe -L pc-bios -hda bsd386.qcow2 -M isapc -net nic -net user -no-reboot -m 256
> 
> And I can run lynx/irc as a test of the TCP/IP.
> 
> At any rate, I figure this kind of brings 386BSD back out of it's grave.

Regards,
Natalia Portillo
Claunia.com
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jason Stevens]

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Hey there!

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> El 17/04/2010, a las 06:12, Jason Stevens escribió:
>
> I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd share that
> 386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone to crashing),
> however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then run on Qemu!
> (0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is incompatible)
>
> Is it possible to install it in QEMU at all without using another emulator?
> (hardware machine is ok)
>

I *suppose* that if I transplanted a patched kernel on the install floppy
it'd install.  The install is SUPER tedious doing it with diskettes so I'm
not jumping at this at the moment.. .However this would have altered the
install media... Does that matter?


>
> Would you be able to contact in QEMU developer's list with SeaBIOS
> maintainer to find what makes it stop working on 0.12.x branch?
>
>
I guess someone should the ISA machine in Qemu 0.12 doesn't work at ALL...
So this also means no fun with Novell Netware 3.12 either...!


> Would you mind putting the information about how to make it running, how
> well it runs, so on, on QEMU's officlal OS support list (at
> http://www.claunia.com/qemu/ )?
>

I've added a section there.. I think I did it right..?  Although I can't
figure out how to send a screenshot.  I added one for Xenix a while ago but
I forget.


>
> If anyone is interested, here is a link to a hard disk image that I've
> prepared for Qemu:
> http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/386BSD/bsd386.qcow2.gz
>
>
> Under what license is that operating system?
>

It's my impression that 386BSD is under the BSD license, probably the old 4
clause one where you had to give credit to the regents etc... although I
think they retroactively changed that?

I'm pretty sure it should be no different then Free/Net/Open BSD's.
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jacob Goense]

> I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd share that
> 386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone to crashing),
> however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then run on Qemu!
> (0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is incompatible)

Yes, I think it is very interesting to see what BSD was like on an x86
around the time of the forks into Net- and FreeBSD. You can feel the
itch to roll your own xBSD when messing around with it.

It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save the
386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?


/Jacob

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jason Stevens]

I don't have the 1.0 BSD cd... At the time I was too wrapped up in Linux,
and I just
didn't realize the linage of the BSD of the time... (well that and I was a
BBS user
and they had SLS Linux to download, no BSD for some reason.... And all the
unix people on campus did their best to discourage people from getting
BSD..)

Anyways I have bought the 'basic kernel source secrets' book but it didn't
come
with a CD... I kind of recall it being expensive...?

IMHO the linux thing just released so often, it was a lot of work to keep up
with
(which really hasn't changed) and the BSD stuff was so ivory tower, of we'll
release
when it's ready but the world just wouldn't wait.  Which is a shame, as
seeing
how even 386BSD 0.1 had full TCP/IP while us linux people were trying to get
something like 32v running... Linux was so far behind back then but the
constant
releases made it feel far more alive....

Ok, that's enough of a rant.. ;)

After looking around at the various sites operated by the Jolitz's I found
this one:

http://collectables.jolix.com/

<http://collectables.jolix.com/>This is the best one I could find, and they
don't have any CD's for sale....

I've been building some stuff for 386BSD but the one thing that seems to
be lost to time is the old xfree86 1.X releases...

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Jacob Goense <dugo at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> > I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd share
> that
> > 386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone to
> crashing),
> > however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then run on Qemu!
> > (0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is incompatible)
>
> Yes, I think it is very interesting to see what BSD was like on an x86
> around the time of the forks into Net- and FreeBSD. You can feel the
> itch to roll your own xBSD when messing around with it.
>
> It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save the
> 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?
>
>
> /Jacob
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Tom Ivar Helbekkmo]

Jason Stevens <neozeed at gmail.com> writes:

> IMHO the linux thing just released so often, it was a lot of work to
> keep up with (which really hasn't changed) and the BSD stuff was so
> ivory tower, of we'll release when it's ready but the world just
> wouldn't wait.

It was certainly that way with 386BSD.  Jolitz released 0.0, and a lot
of us made improvements.  Then he released 0.1, with none of our
improvements at all in it.  We pulled up all our fixes, and made more.
Then he released 0.2, still with nothing from the net included.  That's
when NetBSD was born.  (FreeBSD forked off later, due to disagreements
over whether to concentrate on Intel processors (the FreeBSD crowd), or
stick to the multi-platform approach (NetBSD).)

-tih
-- 
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Saturday, 24 April 2010 at 16:28:41 +0200, Jacob Goense wrote:
>> I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd share that
>> 386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone to crashing),
>> however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then run on Qemu!
>> (0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is incompatible)
>
> Yes, I think it is very interesting to see what BSD was like on an x86
> around the time of the forks into Net- and FreeBSD. You can feel the
> itch to roll your own xBSD when messing around with it.
>
> It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save
> the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?

Yes, I have a copy.  It was pretty much useless.  All the
documentation was in some Microsoft format, and I couldn't read it.
Unfortunately Dr Dobbs has a copyright on it, or I could upload it for
the curious.

Greg
--
Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  See
http://www.lemis.com/grog/email/signed-mail.php for more details.
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jacob Goense]

>> It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save
>> the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?
>
> Yes, I have a copy.  It was pretty much useless.  All the
> documentation was in some Microsoft format, and I couldn't read it.
> Unfortunately Dr Dobbs has a copyright on it, or I could upload it for
> the curious.


That's about what I understood from as well from reading this column
at http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/tin/P/199503.shtml

 "The 386BSD release CD-ROM includes a mixture of BSD and Jolitz code,
 articles, and what have you. The files are hyperlinked with a global
 glossary and index to illustrate the structure and interdependence in
 the discussion of the system files.

 Consequently, the CD-ROM release is not freeware, as a whole, though
 many parts of it are freely redistributable. In particular, the system
 itself will be available at certain "official" Internet sites,
 still(unfortunately) to be determined at press time."

and I have dug around long enough to assume that 15 years later it is
still TBD where to get just the system.

The stuff in WinHelp format being useless, ok, but what about the
system on the CD, did you ever try booting and installing it?


/Jacob

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Carl Lowenstein]

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On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Jacob Goense <dugo at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>> It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save
>>> the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?
>>
>> Yes, I have a copy.  It was pretty much useless.  All the
>> documentation was in some Microsoft format, and I couldn't read it.
>> Unfortunately Dr Dobbs has a copyright on it, or I could upload it for
>> the curious.

Using tools that were not available 15 years ago, Google search for
"windows+help+file+reader" leads me to, among others:
<http://helpexplorer.software.informer.com/> which looks promising.
Of course I don't have anything to try exercising it on.

> That's about what I understood from as well from reading this column
> at http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/tin/P/199503.shtml
>
>  "The 386BSD release CD-ROM includes a mixture of BSD and Jolitz code,
>  articles, and what have you. The files are hyperlinked with a global
>  glossary and index to illustrate the structure and interdependence in
>  the discussion of the system files.
>
> The stuff in WinHelp format being useless, ok, but what about the
> system on the CD, did you ever try booting and installing it?

Maybe WinHelp format has not changed over the decades.

    carl
-- 
    carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                 clowenstein at ucsd.edu

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jason Stevens]

Well worst case, you can run windows under Qemu.... attach the generic text
only printer, and 'print' out the help files too......

Sadly the winhelp format has drifted between the windows 3.x , then 9x/NT
3.51 releases, and the htmlhelp thing...
MS never really documents it that well, as it's just such a hack... That
when it works, it works well, otherwise...
it's a nightmare to make documents for.



On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Carl Lowenstein
<carl.lowenstein at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Jacob Goense <dugo at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >>> It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save
> >>> the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?
> >>
> >> Yes, I have a copy.  It was pretty much useless.  All the
> >> documentation was in some Microsoft format, and I couldn't read it.
> >> Unfortunately Dr Dobbs has a copyright on it, or I could upload it for
> >> the curious.
>
> Using tools that were not available 15 years ago, Google search for
> "windows+help+file+reader" leads me to, among others:
> <http://helpexplorer.software.informer.com/> which looks promising.
> Of course I don't have anything to try exercising it on.
>
> > That's about what I understood from as well from reading this column
> > at http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/tin/P/199503.shtml
> >
> >  "The 386BSD release CD-ROM includes a mixture of BSD and Jolitz code,
> >  articles, and what have you. The files are hyperlinked with a global
> >  glossary and index to illustrate the structure and interdependence in
> >  the discussion of the system files.
> >
> > The stuff in WinHelp format being useless, ok, but what about the
> > system on the CD, did you ever try booting and installing it?
>
> Maybe WinHelp format has not changed over the decades.
>
>    carl
> --
>    carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
>                                                 clowenstein at ucsd.edu
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Sunday, 25 April 2010 at 11:28:29 +0200, Jacob Goense wrote:
>>> It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save
>>> the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?
>>
>> Yes, I have a copy.  It was pretty much useless.  All the
>> documentation was in some Microsoft format, and I couldn't read it.
>> Unfortunately Dr Dobbs has a copyright on it, or I could upload it for
>> the curious.
>
> That's about what I understood from as well from reading this column
> at http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/tin/P/199503.shtml
>
>  "The 386BSD release CD-ROM includes a mixture of BSD and Jolitz code,
>  articles, and what have you. The files are hyperlinked with a global
>  glossary and index to illustrate the structure and interdependence in
>  the discussion of the system files.
>
>  Consequently, the CD-ROM release is not freeware, as a whole, though
>  many parts of it are freely redistributable. In particular, the system
>  itself will be available at certain "official" Internet sites,
>  still(unfortunately) to be determined at press time."
>
> and I have dug around long enough to assume that 15 years later it is
> still TBD where to get just the system.

OK,  I mounted the CD-ROM and looked for copyright statements.  The
only one I found was /COPYRGHT.TXT, a modified 8 paragraph BSD license
with \r\n line delimiters, attached.

Arguably it only applies to the OS sources, but it's the only license
I can see.  It probibits commercial distributions, but the important
clause from our point of view is:

   * 5. Non-commercial distribution of the complete source and/or binary
   *	release at no charge to the user (such as from an official Internet
   *	archive site) is permitted.

I was going to take out just the source tree, but another clause
states:

   * 7. Non-commercial and/or commercial distribution of an incomplete,
   *	altered, or otherwise modified source and/or binary release is not
   *	permitted.

Since this is the only copyright statement, I assume that this means I
can put up the entire CD image, but not just part of it, so that's
what I've done.  It's at http://www.lemis.com/grog/src/386BSD-1.0.bz2 .

If anybody finds anything that indicates that it shouldn't be made
available, please let me know and I'll pull it.

Greg
--
Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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			       386BSD Release 1.0
				   Copyright


  /*
   * Copyright (c) 1989-1994 William F. Jolitz, TeleMuse.
   * All Rights Reserved.
   *
   * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
   * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
   * are met:
   * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
   *	notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
   * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
   *	notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
   *	documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
   * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this
   *	software must display the following acknowledgement:
   *	This software is a component of "386BSD" developed by
   *	William F. Jolitz, TeleMuse.
   * 4. Neither the name of the developer nor the name "386BSD"
   *	may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software
   *	without specific prior written permission.
   * 5. Non-commercial distribution of the complete source and/or binary
   *	release at no charge to the user (such as from an official Internet
   *	archive site) is permitted.
   * 6. Commercial distribution and sale of the complete source and/or binary
   *	release on any media, including that of floppies, tape, or CD-ROM, or
   *	through a per-charge download such as that of a BBS, is not permitted
   *	without specific prior written permission.
   * 7. Non-commercial and/or commercial distribution of an incomplete,
   *	altered, or otherwise modified source and/or binary release is not
   *	permitted.
   * 8. Non-commercial and/or commercial incorporation and distribution of
   *	any components, programs, files, and other modules derived from the
   *	source and/or binary release is not permitted without specific prior
   *	written permission, except where stated by the author as in the
   *	copyright disclaimer of the source code component, program, file, or
   *	other module in question.
   *
   * 386BSD WAS DEVELOPED BY WILLIAM F. JOLITZ.
   * 386BSD IS INTENDED FOR RESEARCH AND EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES.
   * THIS SOFTWARE SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED TO BE A COMMERCIAL PRODUCT.
   * THE DEVELOPER URGES THAT USERS WHO REQUIRE A COMMERCIAL PRODUCT
   * NOT MAKE USE OF THIS WORK.
   *
   * FOR USERS WHO WISH TO UNDERSTAND THE 386BSD SYSTEM DEVELOPED
   * BY WILLIAM F. JOLITZ, WE RECOMMEND THE USER STUDY WRITTEN
   * REFERENCES SUCH AS THE  "PORTING UNIX TO THE 386" SERIES
   * (BEGINNING JANUARY 1991 "DR. DOBBS JOURNAL", USA AND BEGINNING
   * JUNE 1991 "IX MAGAZIN", FORMERLY "UNIX MAGAZIN", GERMANY) BY



  386BSD Copyright		   1			August 1994











   * WILLIAM AND LYNNE JOLITZ, THE "386BSD REFERENCE CD-ROM" KERNEL SOURCE
   * ANNOTATIONS AND OTHER 386BSD MATERIALS AND WRITINGS BY WILLIAM & LYNNE
   * JOLITZ, AS WELL AS OTHER BOOKS ON UNIX AND THE ON-LINE 386BSD
   * USER MANUAL BEFORE USE. A BOOK DISCUSSING THE INTERNALS OF 386BSD
   * RELEASE 1.0 ENTITLED "386BSD FROM THE INSIDE OUT" IS PENDING.
   *
   * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPER ``AS IS'' AND
   * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
   * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
   * PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED.  IN NO EVENT SHALL THE DEVELOPER BE LIABLE
   * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
   * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS
   * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION)
   * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT,
   * STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN
   * ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
   * OF SUCH DAMAGE.
   *
   * Any questions regarding this copyright notice may be directed to:
   *   Lynne Greer Jolitz
   *   386BSD Release 1.0
   *   c/o Dr. Dobbs Journal
   *   411 Borel Avenue
   *   San Mateo, California  94402  USA
   *   +1-510-420-0174 (FAX)
   *
   */



























  386BSD Copyright		   2			August 1994




\x1a
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jason Stevens]

Well I've been able to find this much out...

The CD has some kind of weird 'live' CD filesystem to it... It would seem
that 386BSD 1.0 demanded you have an Adaptec 1542 controller hooked up, and
with special roms & whatnot it could 'boot' from the CD...  Needless to say,
this predates anything like IDE CDROM's or or what most emulators will
emulate.

That being said, they did include the 'boot' program which is touched on in
the magazine series, as a MS-DOS bootloader.

So I've just slapped together a MS-DOS floppy, with the boot & 386bsd kernel
and tried it on on Qemu, to an early kernel panic.  Oddly enough, Virtual PC
2007 can boot the kernel.  So I converted my 386BSD 0.1 install into a disk
image that Virtual PC can run, and ran the floppy, and it was able to mount
up the hard disk, run single user mode, and even go into multiuser...

If it matters this is what the boot produces:

A:\>boot 386bsd
Text 466944
Data 20480
Start 0xfe000000
can't open emm
386BSD Release 1.0 by William & Lynne Jolitz. [1.0.22 10/27/94 15:32]
Copyright (c) 1989-1994 William F. Jolitz. All rights reserved.
clk:  irq0
pc: pc0 <color> port 60 irq1
aux:  port 310 irq12
wd: wd0 <Virtual HD> wd1 port 1f0 irq14
fd: fd0: 1.44M port 3f0 irq6 drq2
com: com1: fifo port 3f8 irq4
com: com2: fifo port 2f8 irq3
lpt: lpt0  port 378 irq7
npx: npx: irq13
mcd:  port 300 irq10
erase ^?, kill ^U, intr ^C
#


I'll have to test later if it can 'mount' an ISO image that's been 'dd''d to
a hard disk.....
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Wesley Parish]

FWLIW, I also bought a copy, way back when, and I've just made an unencumbered 
version, containing only the 386BSD binaries, the 386BSD source trees, and 
the manuals.

It contains only the BSD-copyright material; everything else appears to be Dr 
Dobbs-copyrighted, thus off-limits; but I'll upload the tar.bz2 file (2MB) if 
people feel it's needed.

I did at one stage sanitize the MS .hlp file documentation, turning it into 
ASCII with MS-DOS cr/lf, but I threw that away at some stage.

Again, FWLIW, the CDROM wouldn't boot on my hardware when I bought it, and I 
couldn't access the source - without putting some thought into it.  I 
eventually did, and copied it to my Linux machine.

Anyone interested?  Warren?  (I did think of attaching it to this email, but 
figured out that was unfriendly and would lead to tears, so I didn't ... :)

Wesley Parish

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> On Saturday, 24 April 2010 at 16:28:41 +0200, Jacob Goense wrote:
> >> I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd share
> >> that 386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone to
> >> crashing), however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then run
> >> on Qemu! (0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is incompatible)
> >
> > Yes, I think it is very interesting to see what BSD was like on an x86
> > around the time of the forks into Net- and FreeBSD. You can feel the
> > itch to roll your own xBSD when messing around with it.
> >
> > It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save
> > the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?
>
> Yes, I have a copy.  It was pretty much useless.  All the
> documentation was in some Microsoft format, and I couldn't read it.
> Unfortunately Dr Dobbs has a copyright on it, or I could upload it for
> the curious.
>
> Greg
> --
> Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed.  See
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/email/signed-mail.php for more details.
> If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read
> http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua



-- 
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
George Kelischek - "To impress those high-tech computer types, 
tell them what an Ocarina really is: 
an animal-activated-solid-state-multi-frequency-sound-synthesizer." 
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

[resequenced]

On Monday, 26 April 2010 at 19:03:33 +1200, Wesley Parish wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
>> On Saturday, 24 April 2010 at 16:28:41 +0200, Jacob Goense wrote:
>>>> I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd share
>>>> that 386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone to
>>>> crashing), however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then run
>>>> on Qemu! (0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is incompatible)
>>>
>>> Yes, I think it is very interesting to see what BSD was like on an x86
>>> around the time of the forks into Net- and FreeBSD. You can feel the
>>> itch to roll your own xBSD when messing around with it.
>>>
>>> It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save
>>> the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?
>>
>> Yes, I have a copy.  It was pretty much useless.  All the
>> documentation was in some Microsoft format, and I couldn't read it.
>> Unfortunately Dr Dobbs has a copyright on it, or I could upload it for
>> the curious.
>
> FWLIW, I also bought a copy, way back when, and I've just made an
> unencumbered version, containing only the 386BSD binaries, the
> 386BSD source trees, and the manuals.

That was my first intention too.  But read the copyright.  You're not
allowed to do distribute that.

> It contains only the BSD-copyright material; everything else appears
> to be Dr Dobbs-copyrighted, thus off-limits; but I'll upload the
> tar.bz2 file (2MB) if people feel it's needed.

Did you find a Dr Dobbs copyright notice anywhere on the CD?  Or
elsewhere?  All I saw was a printed mention of Dr Dobbs along with the
Jolitzes and UCB around the bottom of the CD.

Greg
--
Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  See
http://www.lemis.com/grog/email/signed-mail.php for more details.
If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read
http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Wesley Parish]

It appears you're right about the Dr Dobbs copyright - no copyright notices.

Quoting Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com>:
> [resequenced]
> 
> On Monday, 26 April 2010 at 19:03:33 +1200, Wesley Parish wrote:
> > On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> >> On Saturday, 24 April 2010 at 16:28:41 +0200, Jacob Goense wrote:
> >>>> I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd
> share
> >>>> that 386BSD will install on Bochs (although slowly, and it's prone
> to
> >>>> crashing), however once the first patchkit is installed, it'll then
> run
> >>>> on Qemu! (0.11.0, it seems the new bios layout of 0.12 is
> incompatible)
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I think it is very interesting to see what BSD was like on an
> x86
> >>> around the time of the forks into Net- and FreeBSD. You can feel
> the
> >>> itch to roll your own xBSD when messing around with it.
> >>>
> >>> It got me curious about where 386BSD ended though. Did anyone save
> >>> the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM Release 1.0 from /dev/null?
> >>
> >> Yes, I have a copy. It was pretty much useless. All the
> >> documentation was in some Microsoft format, and I couldn't read it.
> >> Unfortunately Dr Dobbs has a copyright on it, or I could upload it
> for
> >> the curious.
> >
> > FWLIW, I also bought a copy, way back when, and I've just made an
> > unencumbered version, containing only the 386BSD binaries, the
> > 386BSD source trees, and the manuals.
> 
> That was my first intention too. But read the copyright. You're not
> allowed to do distribute that.
> 
> > It contains only the BSD-copyright material; everything else appears
> > to be Dr Dobbs-copyrighted, thus off-limits; but I'll upload the
> > tar.bz2 file (2MB) if people feel it's needed.
> 
> Did you find a Dr Dobbs copyright notice anywhere on the CD? Or
> elsewhere? All I saw was a printed mention of Dr Dobbs along with the
> Jolitzes and UCB around the bottom of the CD.
> 
> Greg
> --
> Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed. See
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/email/signed-mail.php for more details.
> If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read
> http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua
>  



"Sharpened hands are happy hands.
"Brim the tinfall with mirthful bands" 
- A Deepness in the Sky, Vernor Vinge

"I me.  Shape middled me.  I would come out into hot!" 
I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a symbol of the 
other horizon. - emacs : meta x dissociated-press

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jason Stevens]

For the benefit of those without Windows 3.1, I found this great program
hlp2doc which allowed me to convert all the hlp files into MS Word 2.0
documents...  So using MS Word 2.0 I then re-saved all the documents into
plain text files.. "unzip -a" should then convert them to your native
CR/LF..

I've made it available here:

http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/386bsd/386BSD%201.0%20txt.zip

If anyone feels that this is a bad thing, let me know and I'll pull it.
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[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Cyrille Lefevre]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
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Le 26/04/2010 19:52, Jason Stevens a écrit :
> For the benefit of those without Windows 3.1, I found this great program
> hlp2doc which allowed me to convert all the hlp files into MS Word 2.0
> documents...  So using MS Word 2.0 I then re-saved all the documents
> into plain text files.. "unzip -a" should then convert them to your
> native CR/LF..
>
> I've made it available here:
>
> http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/386bsd/386BSD%201.0%20txt.zip
>
> If anyone feels that this is a bad thing, let me know and I'll pull it.

Hi,

in attachment, an fast and really dirty awk script to convert TXT files 
to HTML ones... :-)

for i in *.TXT; do awk -f bsd.awk "$i" >| "${i%.TXT}.HTM"; done

90% of the works should be good.

PS : there is at least 2 typos :

diff _/CPU.TXT ./CPU.TXT
27c27
< 386BSD cpu_tfork() Design Choices and Trade-Offs
---
 > 386BSD cpu_texit() Design Choices and Trade-Offs
diff _/OBJECT.TXT ./OBJECT.TXT
64c64
< What is vm_object_remove()?
---
 > What is vm_object_pmap_remove()?


Regards,

Cyrille Lefevre
-- 
mailto:Cyrille.Lefevre-lists at laposte.net
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[TUHS] UniFlex

[Jose R. Valverde]

P.S. (sorry for following up to myself)

	I had a look into the files, and the system comes with commented
source code in assembler.

	FWIW this is a full distribution, including development environment 
(C, Cobol, Fortran-77,..), editors, kernel, VSAM database, etc... all of it 
with source code and documentation,

	From my first cursory look most of it is written in assemble, comes
with sample test code and is documented enough to be understandable. The 
pascal, cobol and fortran 77 compilers are written in pascal (!), the C
compiler is written in assembler.

	It looks like the environment must have been only vaguely UNIX-like
but yet I find it mesmerizing enough considering where it ran and when. It
adds another dimension to understand the impact UNIX had and how it spun off
lookalikes and sprung the imagination of developers of the time expanding its
heritage sideways.

				j
-- 
			EMBnet/CNB
		Scientific Computing Service
	Solving all your computer needs for Scientific
			Research.

		http://bioportal.cnb.csic.es
		  http://www.es.embnet.org

[TUHS] UniFlex

[Brad Spencer]

   P.S. (sorry for following up to myself)

	   I had a look into the files, and the system comes with commented
   source code in assembler.

	   FWIW this is a full distribution, including development environment 
   (C, Cobol, Fortran-77,..), editors, kernel, VSAM database, etc... all of it 
   with source code and documentation,

	   From my first cursory look most of it is written in assemble, comes
   with sample test code and is documented enough to be understandable. The 
   pascal, cobol and fortran 77 compilers are written in pascal (!), the C
   compiler is written in assembler.

	   It looks like the environment must have been only vaguely UNIX-like
   but yet I find it mesmerizing enough considering where it ran and when. It
   adds another dimension to understand the impact UNIX had and how it spun off
   lookalikes and sprung the imagination of developers of the time expanding its
   heritage sideways.

				   j
   -- 
			   EMBnet/CNB
		   Scientific Computing Service
	   Solving all your computer needs for Scientific
			   Research.

		   http://bioportal.cnb.csic.es
		     http://www.es.embnet.org
   _______________________________________________
   TUHS mailing list
   TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
   https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs



Wow, what a blast from the past.  I used Flex on the Radio Shack Color
Computer in 64MB of memory in the '80s for a while.  Yes, the entire thing
was assembly and some Fortran.  I did not have the source to most of it
for my version, only the compiled binaries.  The version I used ran off
floppy disks, of course, and used a strange sector layout.  Something like
17 sectors of 256 bytes, instead of the 18 sectors 256 bytes that the
Color Computer usually used.

Neat system in some ways.  Way more "professional" then is peers, except
for OS/9 from Microware.

Flex was only very vaguely Unix, however.  OS/9, which I used a whole lot
on the Color Computer and Color Computer 3, was a lot more Unix like.  I
understand that the 6809 version is floating around the Net.  It was also
all 6809 assembly, multitasking and multiuser.  Very Unix V4/V5/V6 like in
a number of ways.




-- 
Brad Spencer - brad at anduin.eldar.org - KC8VKS
http://anduin.eldar.org  - & -  http://anduin.ipv6.eldar.org [IPv6 only]

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jacob Goense]

On Mon, April 26, 2010 05:23 "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
> OK,  I mounted the CD-ROM and looked for copyright statements.  The
> only one I found was /COPYRGHT.TXT, a modified 8 paragraph BSD license
> with \r\n line delimiters, attached.
>
> Arguably it only applies to the OS sources, but it's the only license
> I can see.

Indeed, it can be argued that the statement refers to 386BSD Release 1.0
sec, not the 386BSD Reference CD-ROM as a whole, but it is hard to draw
a line, if any.

>  It probibits commercial distributions, but the important
> clause from our point of view is:
>
>    * 5. Non-commercial distribution of the complete source and/or binary
>    *	release at no charge to the user (such as from an official Internet
>    *	archive site) is permitted.
>
> I was going to take out just the source tree, but another clause
> states:
>
>    * 7. Non-commercial and/or commercial distribution of an incomplete,
>    *	altered, or otherwise modified source and/or binary release is not
>    *	permitted.

Same issue here, would excluding eg. .book & .articles make the Release
incomplete or not?

> Since this is the only copyright statement, I assume that this means I
> can put up the entire CD image, but not just part of it, so that's
> what I've done.  It's at http://www.lemis.com/grog/src/386BSD-1.0.bz2 .

The only thing I could find that makes some sort of demarcation is the
installer, which leaves some bits behind when doing a full install.

Without vehement arguing from stakeholders or copyright lawyers to the
contrary I assume the same and thank you for putting it up there.


/Jacob

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Jacob Goense]

On Mon, April 26, 2010 07:22 "Jason Stevens" <neozeed at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well I've been able to find this much out...
>
> The CD has some kind of weird 'live' CD filesystem to it... It would
> seem that 386BSD 1.0 demanded you have an Adaptec 1542 controller
> hooked up, and with special roms & whatnot it could 'boot' from the
> CD...
> Needless to say, this predates anything like IDE CDROM's or or what
> most emulators will emulate.

That "Bootable CD" button on the CD cover is just a marketing fact
AFAICT. I don't have the foggiest how that was done in the pre eltorito
days on an x86.

> That being said, they did include the 'boot' program which is touched
> on in the magazine series, as a MS-DOS bootloader.

Mock code aside, no source code for boot.exe. No source code for the
install program and no Tiny 386BSD Release 1.0 boot floppy image on the
CD. I can't get my head around why they bothered to document to the
point where you can almost port BSD to a Commodore 64 and leave these
bits out.

> So I've just slapped together a MS-DOS floppy, with the boot & 386bsd
> kernel and tried it on on Qemu, to an early kernel panic.

After numerous attect vectors I took the MS-DOS5 floppy route w/ Qemu
as well, but nothing could get it to boot cdrom. Then in a recalcitrant
mood I stuck the image to -hdb, an empty 1G drive to -hda, booted flop
and gave a BOOT.EXE 386BSD.DDB wd1d at the DOS prompt and booted into
The 386BSD SAMPLER. The installer ran fine as long as it didn't have
to deal with swap space. Not that it left me with a bootable system,
but it's a start. Will document on gunkies.org if I can get things
stable.

> I'll have to test later if it can 'mount' an ISO image that's been
> 'dd''d to a hard disk.....

Skip the dd'ing, Qemu eats the image raw ;)

/Jacob

[TUHS] 386BSD on Bochs & Qemu...

[Natalia Portillo]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 906 bytes --]


El 04/05/2010, a las 20:37, Jacob Goense escribió:

> On Mon, April 26, 2010 07:22 "Jason Stevens" <neozeed at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well I've been able to find this much out...
>> 
>> The CD has some kind of weird 'live' CD filesystem to it... It would
>> seem that 386BSD 1.0 demanded you have an Adaptec 1542 controller
>> hooked up, and with special roms & whatnot it could 'boot' from the
>> CD...
>> Needless to say, this predates anything like IDE CDROM's or or what
>> most emulators will emulate.
> 
> That "Bootable CD" button on the CD cover is just a marketing fact
> AFAICT. I don't have the foggiest how that was done in the pre eltorito
> days on an x86.

SCSI HBAs with integrated boot firmware in BIOS compatible way (that is, trapping INT 13h) can be used to boot ANYTHING in SCSI that behaves like a random access block device.

That means, floppies, LS-120, ZIP, hard disks, CD-ROMs.

[TUHS] UniFlex

[Jose R. Valverde]