[TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Angelo Papenhoff]

The last couple of days I worked on re-setting the V3-V6 manuals.
I reconstructed V5 from the scan as best I could, unfortunately some
pages were missing.
You can find everything I used to do this here,
please read the BUGS section:
https://github.com/aap/unixman

The results can be found here, as HTML and PDF:
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v3man/
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4man/
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man/
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v6man/

Reconstructing V1 and V2 n?roff source and converting the tty 37 output
to ps is something I want to do too, but for now this was exhausting
enough. 

Now for the questions that I arose while I was doing this:
Are there scans of the V4 and V6 manual to check my pdfs against?
Where does the V5 manual come from? As explained in the README,
some pages are missing and some pages seem to be earlier than V4.
Is there another V5 manual that one could check against?
Why is lc (the LIL compiler) not in the TOC but has a page?

And most importantly: is the old troff really lost?
I would love to set the manual on the original systems
at some point (and write a CAT -> ps converter, which should be fun).
Doing all this work made me wish we still had earlier versions
of UNIX and its tools around.

Have fun with this!

aap

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Jim Capp]

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Beautiful! 


From: "Angelo Papenhoff" <aap@papnet.eu> 
To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org 
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 3:46:36 PM 
Subject: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual 

The last couple of days I worked on re-setting the V3-V6 manuals. 
I reconstructed V5 from the scan as best I could, unfortunately some 
pages were missing. 
You can find everything I used to do this here, 
please read the BUGS section: 
https://github.com/aap/unixman 

The results can be found here, as HTML and PDF: 
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v3man/ 
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4man/ 
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man/ 
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v6man/ 

Reconstructing V1 and V2 n?roff source and converting the tty 37 output 
to ps is something I want to do too, but for now this was exhausting 
enough. 

Now for the questions that I arose while I was doing this: 
Are there scans of the V4 and V6 manual to check my pdfs against? 
Where does the V5 manual come from? As explained in the README, 
some pages are missing and some pages seem to be earlier than V4. 
Is there another V5 manual that one could check against? 
Why is lc (the LIL compiler) not in the TOC but has a page? 

And most importantly: is the old troff really lost? 
I would love to set the manual on the original systems 
at some point (and write a CAT -> ps converter, which should be fun). 
Doing all this work made me wish we still had earlier versions 
of UNIX and its tools around. 

Have fun with this! 

aap 

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Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Clem Cole]

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On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 3:55 PM Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:

>
> And most importantly: is the old troff really lost?
>
The question is how old?   I thought we found a pre-ditroff (v6 binary) at
one point, but I don't think we have anything older than that.



> I would love to set the manual on the original systems
> at some point (and write a CAT -> ps converter, which should be fun).
>
I'm pretty sure this already exists.  It was part of the Adobe 'transcript'
package back in the day.

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Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Warren Toomey]

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:46:36PM +0200, Angelo Papenhoff wrote:
> The last couple of days I worked on re-setting the V3-V6 manuals.
> Now for the questions that I arose while I was doing this:
> Where does the V5 manual come from?

The scan at 
https://www.tuhs.org//Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v5/v5man.pdf
is a scan I did from a photocopy of the 5th Edition manuals that Norman
Wilson posted to me.

Cheers, Warren

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Angelo Papenhoff]

On 26/10/18, Clem Cole wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 3:55 PM Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> 
> >
> > And most importantly: is the old troff really lost?
> >
> The question is how old?   I thought we found a pre-ditroff (v6 binary) at
> one point, but I don't think we have anything older than that.

Oh, that sounds good! I thought v7 troff was the first that's been
preserved. Anyone know where to find it?

> > I would love to set the manual on the original systems
> > at some point (and write a CAT -> ps converter, which should be fun).
> >
> I'm pretty sure this already exists.  It was part of the Adobe 'transcript'
> package back in the day.

Hm, that sounds commercial. I'd prefer a free tool, besides, it should
be fun to write it.

aap

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Bakul Shah]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:05:02 +0200 Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> On 26/10/18, Clem Cole wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 3:55 PM Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > And most importantly: is the old troff really lost?
> > >
> > The question is how old?   I thought we found a pre-ditroff (v6 binary) at
> > one point, but I don't think we have anything older than that.
>
> Oh, that sounds good! I thought v7 troff was the first that's been
> preserved. Anyone know where to find it?
>
> > > I would love to set the manual on the original systems
> > > at some point (and write a CAT -> ps converter, which should be fun).
> > >
> > I'm pretty sure this already exists.  It was part of the Adobe 'transcript'
> > package back in the day.

pscat 

> Hm, that sounds commercial. I'd prefer a free tool, besides, it should
> be fun to write it.

IIRC there used to be a program called thack that converted
CAT to ps. Supposedly it didn't work too well but may be a
start? Google search reveals some sources.  See the one here
for example:

http://cd.textfiles.com/sourcecode/unix_c/postscrp/

No idea about the trustworthyness of this site but the program
compiles on freebsd with a few warnings.

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Angelo Papenhoff]

[this was meant to go over the list, Warren quoted it, but it
destroyed the formatting somewhat]

On 27/10/18, Warren Toomey wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:46:36PM +0200, Angelo Papenhoff wrote:
> > And most importantly: is the old troff really lost?
> 
> Angelo, I just trawled through the Unix Archive. Below is a list
> of tarballs with roff stuff in them. Hope this helps. Sorry that
> they are not in date order.
> Cheers, Warren

Unfortunately that does not include the old troff written in PDP-11
assembly.
The v6 tape and file system contain traces of it in the directory
/usr/source/s7, so we at least know (some of) the file names:

│002655f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00-00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |                |
│00265600 6d 01 72 6f 66 66 33 2e-73 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |m?roff3.s       |
│00265610 6c 01 72 6f 66 66 34 2e-73 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |l?roff4.s       |
│00265620 6b 01 72 6f 66 66 35 2e-73 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |k?roff5.s       |
│00265630 6a 01 72 6f 66 66 37 2e-73 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |j?roff7.s       |
│00265640 69 01 72 6f 66 66 38 2e-73 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |i?roff8.s       |
│00265650 00 00 73 75 66 72 63 00-00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  sufrc         |
│00265660 67 01 73 75 66 74 61 62-2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 00 |g?suftab.s      |
│00265670 00 00 74 63 61 74 73 69-6d 2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 |  tcatsim.s     |
│00265680 00 00 74 72 63 00 00 00-00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  trc           |
│00265690 00 00 74 72 6f 66 66 31-2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  troff1.s      |
│002656a0 00 00 74 72 6f 66 66 32-2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  troff2.s      |
│002656b0 00 00 74 72 6f 66 66 33-2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  troff3.s      |
│002656c0 00 00 74 72 6f 66 66 34-2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  troff4.s      |
│002656d0 00 00 74 72 6f 66 66 35-2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  troff5.s      |
│002656e0 00 00 74 72 6f 66 66 36-2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  troff6.s      |
│002656f0 00 00 74 72 6f 66 66 36-61 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  troff6a       |
│00265700 00 00 74 72 6f 66 66 38-2e 73 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  troff8.s      |
│00265710 00 00 78 78 78 78 78 00-00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |  xxxxx         |
│00265720 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00-00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |                |

Now it could be that v7 troff is perfectly capable of generating the
manual just like older troff would have, I just haven't dived more
deeply into it all yet. I was more concerned about reconstructing the
actual content rather than the exact looks for now, but it's still
something i want to get right eventually.


This didn't go through the list but I'll reply here:

On 26/10/18, Ken Thompson wrote:
> nice job.

Thanks, You've always been an inspiration to me!

aap

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Warner Losh]

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On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 4:57 PM Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:

> On 26/10/18, Ken Thompson wrote:
> > nice job.
>
> Thanks, You've always been an inspiration to me!
>

Today, sir, you have won this part of the internet. :)

Warner

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Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Larry McVoy]

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 05:06:48PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 4:57 PM Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> 
> > On 26/10/18, Ken Thompson wrote:
> > > nice job.
> >
> > Thanks, You've always been an inspiration to me!
> >
> 
> Today, sir, you have won this part of the internet. :)

Yeah, it's nice when Ken speaks up.  I'm always nervous when I post
because I know Ken wants 100% signal.

It would be nice if we could get Rob Pike here, he's the right combination
of brilliant and kinda snotty, he doesn't suffer fools at all.  I loved
Rob's point that if you think that you need threads your processes are
too fat.  He's mostly right, in theory, but in practice you can't share
memory via mmap across processes at the same low cost as threads.  If you
have N processes sharing the same memory you have N*pages page table
entries; if you have threads you have 1*pages page table entries (for
the shared memory part).  Back when I was active in kernel development
I tried to get Linus to do a page table scheme that would allow more
than one page table per process so you could have private tables and
shared tables.  Dunno if he did that.

But it would be nice to have Rob here, he's sort of old school but sort
of the next gen of Bell Labs.  And a smart cookie.

And to Angelo, Warner is right, I'd keep that email.

--lm

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Angelo Papenhoff]

On 27/10/18, Warren Toomey wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:46:36PM +0200, Angelo Papenhoff wrote:
> > The last couple of days I worked on re-setting the V3-V6 manuals.
> > Now for the questions that I arose while I was doing this:
> > Where does the V5 manual come from?
> 
> The scan at 
> https://www.tuhs.org//Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v5/v5man.pdf
> is a scan I did from a photocopy of the 5th Edition manuals that Norman
> Wilson posted to me.

Is there another copy of that manual perhaps?

I just noticed the v2 scan is not complete either. It's missing at least
one page of ed(I) and the v1 and v3 manuals are different enough that I
don't know what to reconstruct.

aap

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Angelo Papenhoff]

On 27/10/18, Angelo Papenhoff wrote:
> I just noticed the v2 scan is not complete either. It's missing at least
> one page of ed(I) and the v1 and v3 manuals are different enough that I
> don't know what to reconstruct.

nvm this. didn't see the page od(I) is just between ed(I) pages.

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Angelo Papenhoff]

V2 is reconstructed now.

So I noticed that V1-V3 all really used roff. Previously I thought that
V2 and V3 used nroff. I fixed my pipeline a bit, also for troff.

All V2-V6 can be found here in new versions:
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v2man/	http://squoze.net/UNIX/v2man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v3man/	http://squoze.net/UNIX/v3man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4man/	http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man/	http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v6man/	http://squoze.net/UNIX/v6man.tgz
V2 and V3 are html only but include the intro pages now,
they're also paginated.
V4-V6 are pretty much the same as before, maybe little changes due to
fixes in the pipeline.

Problems:
nroff(I) is missing
some teletype specific things, like overstruck characters, but see
github for a list.

aap

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Clem cole]

Angelo.  I can not thank you enough.  This is wonderful work.  

Clem

Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite. 

> On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:57 PM, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> 
> V2 is reconstructed now.
> 
> So I noticed that V1-V3 all really used roff. Previously I thought that
> V2 and V3 used nroff. I fixed my pipeline a bit, also for troff.
> 
> All V2-V6 can be found here in new versions:
> http://squoze.net/UNIX/v2man/    http://squoze.net/UNIX/v2man.tgz
> http://squoze.net/UNIX/v3man/    http://squoze.net/UNIX/v3man.tgz
> http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4man/    http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4man.tgz
> http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man/    http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man.tgz
> http://squoze.net/UNIX/v6man/    http://squoze.net/UNIX/v6man.tgz
> V2 and V3 are html only but include the intro pages now,
> they're also paginated.
> V4-V6 are pretty much the same as before, maybe little changes due to
> fixes in the pipeline.
> 
> Problems:
> nroff(I) is missing
> some teletype specific things, like overstruck characters, but see
> github for a list.
> 
> aap

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Angelo Papenhoff]

And the V1 manual is done as well. Almost to the day 47 years
after it was first printed.

I'll just link everything again for simplicity:
https://github.com/aap/unixman
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v1man/ http://squoze.net/UNIX/v1man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v2man/ http://squoze.net/UNIX/v2man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v3man/ http://squoze.net/UNIX/v3man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4man/ http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man/ http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man.tgz
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v6man/ http://squoze.net/UNIX/v6man.tgz

I fixed some issues with the tty 37 -> html filter (it now turns
half-line feeds into full line feeds. together with some CSS this looks
acceptable). Some typos in V2 were also fixed.
The nroff output now prints the header once, otherwise no pagination.
I will leave pagination for when I can convert nroff output to pdf.
This means all nroff output has changed from the previous version.

This has been quite an exhausting task, but fortunately it has also
been quite educational. I now feel like some sort of UNIX scholar.

I would really appreciate it if people could proof read some of this.


aap

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> writes:
> * In '64 Xerox invented 'long distance xerography' (LDX) - which was a
> FAX system that used a monochrome CRT to draw a single line of pixels
> on a xerographic 'drum.' Xerox loaned/gave one to CMU, Stanford and
> MIT in '72.  CMU spliced on to a PDP-11 and had it running my March
> '72 [BTW, I recently found pictures of the original toilet paper
> diploma printing hack using it].  Stanford and MIT duplicated the CMU
> trick, with Stanford's XGP coming online Jan '73 and MIT sometime
> thereafter].

Thanks, that goes into my records.  Can we see the pictures?

MIT attached a PDP-11/10 or 11/20, we don't quite know which.  But we
have the code that ran on it.

MIT later got a Dover, also from Xerox.  I'll share this artistic work
from the AI lab file HUMOR; DOVER POEM.


Dover, oh Dover, arisen from dead.
Dover, oh Dover, awoken from bed.
Dover, oh Dover, welcome back to the Lab.
Dover, oh Dover, we've missed your clean hand...

And now your toner's toney,
And your paper near pure white,
The smudges on your soul are gone
And your output's clean as light..

We've labored with your father,
The venerable XGP,
But his slow artistic hand,
Lacks your clean velocity.

Theses and papers
And code in a queue
Dover, oh Dover,
We've been waiting for you.

Disk blocks aplenty
Await your laser drawn lines,
Your intricate fonts,
Your pictures and signs.

Your amputative absence
Has made the Ten dumb,
Without you, Dover,
We're system untounged-

DRAW Plots and TEXage
Have been biding their time,
With LISP code and programs,
And this crufty rhyme.

Dover, oh Dover,
We welcome you back,
Though still you may jam,
You're on the right track.

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Larry McVoy]

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 11:53:20AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
> At the time, the primary fonts kicking around (the Arpanet) were the Hershey
> Fonts <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey_fonts> (which were vector
> fonts for CRTs).  

Oh, man, do I remember them.  While better than nothing, they left a lot
to be desired.

> That said, in those days my eye was not trained enough to see a many of the
> differences.   But some production oriented folks (like Tim O'Reilly) used
> to complain that is the AT&T output (CAT4) was different from what the
> Imagen*** produced [which was the first large scale 'laser printer'
> replacement after the Bensen Varian (/dev/va) and other 'wet' plotters].

A friend of mine (cc-ed), used to really care about this stuff.  I can
still remember him getting out an eye loup and looking at the apple laser
printer output.  I can't remember if he liked it or was disappointed
but he cared.

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Clem Cole]

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> Now it could be that v7 troff is perfectly capable of generating the
> manual just like older troff would have.

Angelo - If you worried about the 'look' of a page, I think the thing to be
more worried about is the differences in very early troff is the definition
of the CAT typesetter and how it maps what you have now (PostScript).
 Programs like vcat and later pscat, that were built by reverse engineering
the output of troff and then did a sort of crude mapping to the raster
fonts that were publically available.

At the time, the primary fonts kicking around (the Arpanet) were the Hershey
Fonts <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey_fonts> (which were vector
fonts for CRTs).  I'm fairly sure that Les Earnest and Larry Tessler used
them with a film recorder at Stanford on the PDP-10 being driven by "Pub"
(which was a contemporary to troff and ran on the PDP-10s).   Rich Johnsson
of CMU wrote the code for the original XGP* (at 200 dpi) and I'm not sure
who did the translation from vectors to bits although Chuck Geschke (Wulf’s
first PhD student @ CMU, founder of Adobe) I think had his hand in it **

The original UNIX 'plotter' emulator for troff (the vcat family of UNIX
tools originally done by Tom Ferin at UCSF IIRC) used the Hershey fonts
that came from the XGP work from the PDP-10.   This worked and as users, we
were pretty happy because most of us did not have access to real
typesetters, much less something as cool at the XGP.   But the fonts were
'ugly' in comparison to future ideas like Metafont an PS, where as, Adobe's
pscat was using a more precise definition.

That said, in those days my eye was not trained enough to see a many of the
differences.   But some production oriented folks (like Tim O'Reilly) used
to complain that is the AT&T output (CAT4) was different from what the
Imagen*** produced [which was the first large scale 'laser printer'
replacement after the Bensen Varian (/dev/va) and other 'wet' plotters].

Clem

* In '64 Xerox invented 'long distance xerography' (LDX) - which was a FAX
system that used a monochrome CRT to draw a single line of pixels on a
xerographic 'drum.'   Xerox loaned/gave one to CMU, Stanford and MIT in
'72.   CMU spliced on to a PDP-11 and had it running my March '72 [BTW, I
recently found pictures of the original toilet paper diploma printing hack
using it].  Stanford and MIT duplicated the CMU trick, with Stanford's XGP
coming online Jan '73 and MIT sometime thereafter].

**Great historical side story - Chuck Geschke filed the first PhD printed
on XGP (at CMU) and it was originally rejected because the CMU library
wanted the 'originals.'   It took Wulf 6-9 months to convince the
administration there were no other 'masters' - the library had the
originals.

***We had a early Imagen at Masscomp, Tim duplicated our set up in
Cambridge shortly there after.   In fact, I know Tim ended buying a CAT/4
early on in ORA's life (used IIRC) -- which I think the first used to set
the X-11 manuals, which of course what what 'made' ORA.

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Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Milo,

> I'm unaware of any other definitions of a point.

Below is an extract from GNU units 2.17's
/usr/share/units/definitions.units.

#
# Printing
#

fournierpoint           0.1648 inch / 12  # First definition of the printers
                                          # point made by Pierre Fournier who
                                          # defined it in 1737 as 1|12 of a
                                          # cicero which was 0.1648 inches.
olddidotpoint           1|72 frenchinch   # François Ambroise Didot, one of
                                          # a family of printers, changed
                                          # Fournier's definition around 1770
                                          # to fit to the French units then in
                                          # use.
bertholdpoint           1|2660 m          # H. Berthold tried to create a
                                          # metric version of the didot point
                                          # in 1878.
INpoint                 0.4 mm            # This point was created by a
                                          # group directed by Fermin Didot in
                                          # 1881 and is associated with the
                                          # imprimerie nationale.  It doesn't
                                          # seem to have been used much.
germandidotpoint        0.376065 mm       # Exact definition appears in DIN
                                          # 16507, a German standards document
                                          # of 1954.  Adopted more broadly  in
                                          # 1966 by ???
metricpoint             3|8 mm            # Proposed in 1977 by Eurograf
oldpoint                1|72.27 inch      # The American point was invented
printerspoint           oldpoint          # by Nelson Hawks in 1879 and
texpoint                oldpoint          # dominates USA publishing.
                                          # It was standardized by the American
                                          # Typefounders Association at the
                                          # value of 0.013837 inches exactly.
                                          # Knuth uses the approximation given
                                          # here (which is very close).  The
                                          # comp.fonts FAQ claims that this
                                          # value is supposed to be 1|12 of a
                                          # pica where 83 picas is equal to 35
                                          # cm.  But this value differs from
                                          # the standard.
texscaledpoint          1|65536 texpoint  # The TeX typesetting system uses
texsp                   texscaledpoint    # this for all computations.
computerpoint           1|72 inch         # The American point was rounded
point                   computerpoint
computerpica            12 computerpoint  # to an even 1|72 inch by computer
postscriptpoint         computerpoint     # people at some point.
pspoint                 postscriptpoint
twip                    1|20 point        # TWentieth of an Imperial Point
Q                       1|4 mm            # Used in Japanese phototypesetting
                                          # Q is for quarter
frenchprinterspoint     olddidotpoint
didotpoint              germandidotpoint  # This seems to be the dominant value
europeanpoint           didotpoint        # for the point used in Europe
cicero                  12 didotpoint

stick                   2 inches

# Type sizes

excelsior               3 oldpoint
brilliant               3.5 oldpoint
diamondtype             4 oldpoint
pearl                   5 oldpoint
agate                   5.5 oldpoint  # Originally agate type was 14 lines per
                                      #   inch, giving a value of 1|14 in.
ruby                    agate         # British
nonpareil               6 oldpoint
mignonette              6.5 oldpoint
emerald                 mignonette    # British
minion                  7 oldpoint
brevier                 8 oldpoint
bourgeois               9 oldpoint
longprimer              10 oldpoint
smallpica               11 oldpoint
pica                    12 oldpoint
english                 14 oldpoint
columbian               16 oldpoint
greatprimer             18 oldpoint
paragon                 20 oldpoint
meridian                44 oldpoint
canon                   48 oldpoint

# German type sizes

nonplusultra            2 didotpoint
brillant                3 didotpoint
diamant                 4 didotpoint
perl                    5 didotpoint
nonpareille             6 didotpoint
kolonel                 7 didotpoint
petit                   8 didotpoint
borgis                  9 didotpoint
korpus                  10 didotpoint
corpus                  korpus
garamond                korpus
mittel                  14 didotpoint
tertia                  16 didotpoint
text                    18 didotpoint
kleine_kanon            32 didotpoint
kanon                   36 didotpoint
grobe_kanon             42 didotpoint
missal                  48 didotpoint
kleine_sabon            72 didotpoint
grobe_sabon             84 didotpoint

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Nelson H. F. Beebe]

Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> writes about the conversion of
printer points to other units:

>> >From my experience in the world of prepress 723pts == 10in.
>>
>> Then Adobe unleashed PostScript on us and redefined the point
>> so that 72pt == 1in.
>>
>> Ibunaware of any other definitions of a point.

The most important other one is that used by the TeX typesetting
system: 72.27pt is one inch.  TeX calls the Adobe PostScript one a big
point: 72bp == 1in.  Here is what Don Knuth, TeX's author, wrote on
page 58 of The TeXbook (Addison-Wesley, 1986, ISBN 0-201-13447-0):

>> ...
>>     The units have been defined here so that precise conversion to sp
>>     is efficient on a wide variety of machines. In order to achieve
>>     this, TeX's ``pt'' has been made slightly larger than the official
>>     printer's point, which was defined to equal exactly .013837in by
>>     the American Typefounders Association in 1886 [cf. National Bureau
>>     of Standards Circular 570 (1956)]. In fact, one classical point is
>>     exactly .99999999pt, so the ``error'' is essentially one part in
>>     10^8.  This is more than two orders of magnitude less than the
>>     amount by which the inch itself changed during 1959, when it
>>     shrank to 2.54cm from its former value of (1/0.3937)cm; so there
>>     is no point in worrying about the difference. The new definition
>>     72.27pt=1in is not only better for calculation, it is also easier
>>     to remember.
>> ...

Here sp is a scaled point: 65536sp = 1pt.  The distance 1sp is smaller
than the wavelength of visible light, and is thus not visible to
humans.

TeX represents physical dimensions as integer numbers of scaled
points, or equivalently, fixed-point numbers in points, with a 16-bit
fraction.  With a 32-bit word size, that leaves 16 bits for the
integer part, of which the high-order bit is a sign, and the adjacent
bit is an overflow indicator.  That makes TeX's maximum dimension on
such machines 1sp below 2^14 (= 16,384) points, or about 5.75 meters
or 18.89 feet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254                  -
- University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148                  -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu  -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe@acm.org  beebe@computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Toby Thain]

On 2018-10-27 10:07 a.m., Milo Velimirovic wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 27, 2018, at 7:28 AM, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
>>
>> On 27/10/18, Doug McIlroy wrote:
>>>> Now it could be that v7 troff is perfectly capable of generating the
>>>> manual just like older troff would have.
>>>
>>> On taking over editorship for v7, I added some macros to the -man
>>> package. I don't specifically recall making any incompatible
>>> changes. If there were any, they'd most likely show up in
>>> the title and synopsis and should be fixable by a minor tweak
>>> to -man. I'm quite confident that there would be no problems
>>> with troff proper.
>>
>> I didn't mean the macros. They are not problematic at all.
>> It's the idea how much a point is compared to an inch that has
>> changed over time i think.
>>
>> aap
> 
> From my experience in the world of prepress 723pts == 10in.
> 
> Then Adobe unleashed PostScript on us and redefined the point
> so that 72pt == 1in.
> 
> I’m unaware of any other definitions of a point.
> 
> -Milo
> 


 Wikipedia lists historical definitions, but the only definitions I've
used myself are TeX's and PostScript's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(typography)

--Toby

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Milo Velimirovic]

> On Oct 27, 2018, at 7:28 AM, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> 
> On 27/10/18, Doug McIlroy wrote:
>>> Now it could be that v7 troff is perfectly capable of generating the
>>> manual just like older troff would have.
>> 
>> On taking over editorship for v7, I added some macros to the -man
>> package. I don't specifically recall making any incompatible
>> changes. If there were any, they'd most likely show up in
>> the title and synopsis and should be fixable by a minor tweak
>> to -man. I'm quite confident that there would be no problems
>> with troff proper.
> 
> I didn't mean the macros. They are not problematic at all.
> It's the idea how much a point is compared to an inch that has
> changed over time i think.
> 
> aap

From my experience in the world of prepress 723pts == 10in.

Then Adobe unleashed PostScript on us and redefined the point
so that 72pt == 1in.

I’m unaware of any other definitions of a point.

-Milo

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Angelo Papenhoff]

On 27/10/18, Doug McIlroy wrote:
>  > Now it could be that v7 troff is perfectly capable of generating the
> > manual just like older troff would have.
> 
> On taking over editorship for v7, I added some macros to the -man
> package. I don't specifically recall making any incompatible
> changes. If there were any, they'd most likely show up in
> the title and synopsis and should be fixable by a minor tweak
> to -man. I'm quite confident that there would be no problems
> with troff proper.

I didn't mean the macros. They are not problematic at all.
It's the idea how much a point is compared to an inch that has
changed over time i think.

aap

Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual

[Doug McIlroy]

 > Now it could be that v7 troff is perfectly capable of generating the
> manual just like older troff would have.

On taking over editorship for v7, I added some macros to the -man
package. I don't specifically recall making any incompatible
changes. If there were any, they'd most likely show up in
the title and synopsis and should be fixable by a minor tweak
to -man. I'm quite confident that there would be no problems
with troff proper.

Doug