[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Warren Toomey]

All, I've spent a bit of time re-writing my "Unix Tree" website, where
you can browse the source code trees and compare related files. The
file comparison now uses colour to show similar lines.

The initial version is at http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl
but I will probably move the URL at some point.

Have a look and see what you think. I would gladly accept suggestions on
better or more accurate descriptions for each of the releases, also checking
of dates and other information.

Cheers,
	Warren
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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Monday,  1 March 2010 at 14:37:56 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> All, I've spent a bit of time re-writing my "Unix Tree" website, where
> you can browse the source code trees and compare related files. The
> file comparison now uses colour to show similar lines.

Great stuff!

> Have a look and see what you think. I would gladly accept
> suggestions on better or more accurate descriptions for each of the
> releases, also checking of dates and other information.

I'm interested to see that you've put nsys in as the Fourth Edition,
and that the timestamps are 1973-8-31.  I've had this code on my
machine for years (almost certainly from you), but I thought it was
the Third Edition, and the time stamps are 1973-1-22.  Have you found
reason to change the timestamps and the version?

Greg
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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Warren Toomey]

On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:57:16PM +1100, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> I'm interested to see that you've put nsys in as the Fourth Edition,
> and that the timestamps are 1973-8-31.  I've had this code on my
> machine for years (almost certainly from you), but I thought it was
> the Third Edition, and the time stamps are 1973-1-22.  Have you found
> reason to change the timestamps and the version?

It's a hard one to categorise, so here is my opinion:

4th Edition, released November 1973, was the first edition with a kernel
written in C; 3rd Edition's kernel was still in assembly. The nsys kernel
has timestamps up to August 31, 1973, so it's only a few months away from
4th Edition, and nsys is a kernel written in C. Therefore, I decided to
categorise nsys under 4th Edition.

Dennis and I had an ongoing discussion about the timestamps in the original
nsys tape. He originally thought the files were dated 22 Jan, 1973. We
worked out that there was a nuxi problem in interpreting the dates, and
Jan 1973 was too early, as the C compiler at that time did not support
structs. So the August 31, 1973 timestamp for the files seems to be correct.

Anyway, I could either put it in V3 or V4, but either way it needs a long
explanation as to why it is placed there.

Cheers,
	Warren
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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[John Cowan]

Greg 'groggy' Lehey scripsit:

> I'm interested to see that you've put nsys in as the Fourth Edition,
> and that the timestamps are 1973-8-31.  I've had this code on my
> machine for years (almost certainly from you), but I thought it was
> the Third Edition, and the time stamps are 1973-1-22.  Have you found
> reason to change the timestamps and the version?

As I've pointed out before, Editions are snapshots of the manual, and
there's no particular reason to suppose that a given snapshot of the
code corresponds exactly to any one of them.

-- 
At the end of the Metatarsal Age, the dinosaurs     John Cowan
abruptly vanished. The theory that a single         cowan at ccil.org
catastrophic event may have been responsible        http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
has been strengthened by the recent discovery of
a worldwide layer of whipped cream marking the
Creosote-Tutelary boundary.             --Science Made Stupid
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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Monday,  1 March 2010 at 15:21:49 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:57:16PM +1100, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
>> I'm interested to see that you've put nsys in as the Fourth Edition,
>> and that the timestamps are 1973-8-31.  I've had this code on my
>> machine for years (almost certainly from you), but I thought it was
>> the Third Edition, and the time stamps are 1973-1-22.  Have you found
>> reason to change the timestamps and the version?
>
> It's a hard one to categorise, so here is my opinion:
>
> ...

Yes, I thought it might be something like that.

> Anyway, I could either put it in V3 or V4, but either way it needs a
> long explanation as to why it is placed there.

It looks to me as if you've made the right choice, but it wouldn't
harm to add your explanation to the web pages.

Greg
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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Cyrille Lefevre]

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Warren Toomey a écrit :
> All, I've spent a bit of time re-writing my "Unix Tree" website, where
> you can browse the source code trees and compare related files. The
> file comparison now uses colour to show similar lines.
> 
> The initial version is at http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl
> but I will probably move the URL at some point.
> 
> Have a look and see what you think. I would gladly accept suggestions on
> better or more accurate descriptions for each of the releases, also checking
> of dates and other information.

Hi,

would it be possible to have a side-by-side colored diff instead of the 
scrollable one ? such as the one of cvsweb ?

ex. :

http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/bin/cat/cat.c.diff?r1=1.2&r2=1.46.12.1&f=h

Regards,

Cyrille Lefevre
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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Warren Toomey]

On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 03:27:01PM +0100, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
> would it be possible to have a side-by-side colored diff instead of the  
> scrollable one ? such as the one of cvsweb ?

I'll see what I can do :)
	Warren
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: side scrolling

[Warren Toomey]

On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 03:27:01PM +0100, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
> would it be possible to have a side-by-side colored diff instead of the  
> scrollable one ?

I've added side scrolling now. Please have a look at it and see what you think.
My HTML skills are limited, so if someone can suggest some better HTML code,
I'd be happy to try it out. All the HTML is in template form, so it should be
easy enough to try alternatives.

The URL is now officially 	http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree

I also want to add these other releases:
        4BSD
        4.1BSD which one?
        4.2BSD
        4.4BSD
        LSX
        Ultrix-32 which one?
        Venix?

If there are any other ones you'd like to see in the tree, let me know.
Now's the time to ask for any other donations to the Heritage Society.
If you have any releases which are not yet in the Unix Archive, I'd love
to know. I still seriously want to get a copy of SysVR4.2, which will go
into the hidden vault to keep the bits safe until some day when they can
be let out.

Thanks,
	Warren
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: side scrolling

[Jason Stevens]

I'd probably ask about that 4.3 Uwisc the wisconson one with the SUN NFS
stuff... and maybe the soviet DEMOS stuff...?

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 03:27:01PM +0100, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
> > would it be possible to have a side-by-side colored diff instead of the
> > scrollable one ?
>
> I've added side scrolling now. Please have a look at it and see what you
> think.
> My HTML skills are limited, so if someone can suggest some better HTML
> code,
> I'd be happy to try it out. All the HTML is in template form, so it should
> be
> easy enough to try alternatives.
>
> The URL is now officially       http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree
>
> I also want to add these other releases:
>        4BSD
>        4.1BSD which one?
>        4.2BSD
>        4.4BSD
>        LSX
>        Ultrix-32 which one?
>        Venix?
>
> If there are any other ones you'd like to see in the tree, let me know.
> Now's the time to ask for any other donations to the Heritage Society.
> If you have any releases which are not yet in the Unix Archive, I'd love
> to know. I still seriously want to get a copy of SysVR4.2, which will go
> into the hidden vault to keep the bits safe until some day when they can
> be let out.
>
> Thanks,
>        Warren
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: side scrolling

[Larry McVoy]

> I also want to add these other releases:
>         4BSD
>         4.1BSD which one?

4.1c was the one that worked, right?

>         4.2BSD

No 4.3?  That was a nice one.

>         4.4BSD
>         LSX
>         Ultrix-32 which one?
>         Venix?
> 
> If there are any other ones you'd like to see in the tree, let me know.
> Now's the time to ask for any other donations to the Heritage Society.
> If you have any releases which are not yet in the Unix Archive, I'd love
> to know. I still seriously want to get a copy of SysVR4.2, which will go

SysVR4.2 was never my favorite.  System V in general was a poor excuse
for a Unix release.  We still have SCO running here and it's pretty 
close to Sys V and, well, yuck.  And I speak as the guy who added
TCP/IP networking to SCO.  If I had any fondness for it I'd be showing it.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: side scrolling

[Larry McVoy]

On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 09:30:42PM -0500, Jason Stevens wrote:
> I'd probably ask about that 4.3 Uwisc the wisconson one with the SUN NFS

Heh.  I was at Uwisc when that work was being done.  That was a pretty
cool time.
-- 
---
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[TUHS] More versions in the tree (was: Unix Tree: side scrolling)

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Saturday,  6 March 2010 at 21:14:08 -0800, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> I also want to add these other releases:
>>         4BSD
>>         4.1BSD which one?
>
> 4.1c was the one that worked, right?

Well, it's interesting as the first operating system with support for
TCP/IP, so I'd vote for that too.

>> I still seriously want to get a copy of SysVR4.2, which will go ...
>
> SysVR4.2 was never my favorite.  System V in general was a poor
> excuse for a Unix release.

Heh.  All the more reason to have a representative of the branch, so
that people can see for themselves.

> We still have SCO running here and it's pretty close to Sys V

Possibly it would look that way revisited now.  It certainly didn't to
us 20 years ago.  We were running, well, System V.2, and we wanted a
UNIX for our PCs.  We ended up with Interactive, which was a whole lot
better than SCO.

Greg
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[TUHS] First TCP/IP implementation (was: Re: More versions in the tree (was: Unix Tree: side scrolling))

[Jochen Kunz]

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On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:02:16 +1100
Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

> > 4.1c was the one that worked, right?
> Well, it's interesting as the first operating system with support for
> TCP/IP, so I'd vote for that too.
Wasn't the first TCP/IP implementation done at BBN on a PDP-10 running
TOPS-10?
-- 


tschüß,
       Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Cyrille Lefevre]

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Warren Toomey a écrit :
> On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 03:27:01PM +0100, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
>> would it be possible to have a side-by-side colored diff instead of the  
>> scrollable one ? such as the one of cvsweb ?
> 
> I'll see what I can do :)
> 	Warren

thanks, see you.

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[TUHS] Unix Tree: demos

[Jason Stevens]

I found some disk images online that say it's for the PDP-11 version... let
me see what I can pull from them for you.

The UWISC stuff is here:

http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/

<http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/>

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 09:30:42PM -0500, Jason Stevens wrote:
> > I'd probably ask about that 4.3 Uwisc the wisconson one with the SUN NFS
> > stuff... and maybe the soviet DEMOS stuff...?
>
> Do you have the demos stuff? I have a pile of files, but it's all a jumble.
> If you have it, could you sit down a create a sensible tree of text-only
> files (i.e. no binary files) which I could add to the Unix Tree?
>
> I'll see if I have 4.3 Uwisc here too.
>
> Thanks,
>         Warren
>
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: demos

[Jason Stevens]

I hate to say it but the demos stuff I found here
http://pdp-11.ru/mybk/pdp11/DEMOS.RAR

Seems to not include full source... I haven't gotten SIMH to boot the thing,
nor some of the... "interesting" Russian PDP-11 emulators..  I ran strings
through the disks, and I got some basic header files, oddly all in English,
but no kernel or system source code, just some Fortran example....

I'll have to ask someone in Russia if they have any real solid leads on
DEMOS... It seems that once the Soviet Union fell, everyone abandoned DEMOS
for any of the BSD's...

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 12:17:26PM -0500, Jason Stevens wrote:
> > I found some disk images online that say it's for the PDP-11 version...
> let
> > me see what I can pull from them for you.
> > The UWISC stuff is here:
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/
>
> Thanks Jason!
>         Warren
>
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: demos

[Jason Stevens]

Cool just downloaded it.... seems whoever put it together really liked
gzip... ;)



On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 7:26 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:

> http://minnie.tuhs.org/Z/demos.tar.gz
>
> Let me know when you got it.
>         Warren
>
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[TUHS] hyphen.c, was Unix Tree

[Warren Toomey]

As an interesting side-note, last year when we were trying to recover
the Second Edition commands source code from the s1-bits.gz DECtape image,
there was a leftover file which I labelled unknown.c.

The Unix tree now shows that V2 unknown.c is actually hyphen.c, which
reappears in System III:

	http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V2/cmd/unknown.c

Now, does anybody know what happened to hyphen.c between mid-1972 and
mid-1980? There is a hyphen(1) V3 manual and a hyphen(6) V4 manual.

Could it have gone off towards PWB or CB UNIX or UNIX/TS?

I wish we could get copies of CB UNIX or UNIX/TS or MERT :-S

Cheers,
	Warren
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[TUHS] hyphen.c, was Unix Tree

[Derek Peschel]

On Mar 7, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Warren Toomey wrote:
> I wish we could get copies of CB UNIX or UNIX/TS or MERT :-S

Absolutely!  Even MERT documentation would be interesting.  The other  
two systems you mention are probably interesting too, except that I've  
never even heard about them so I can't say.

For the record, I've posted a couple of times to the list asking  
various esoteric questions about virtualization.  That's why I'm  
interested in MERT in particular.

-- Derek

[TUHS] hyphen.c, was Unix Tree

[Ian King]

Hey Warren, you know what they say: wish in one hand, do something  
else in the other....  :-)

Speaking of wishing: any news from Mr. Ritchie on PDP-7 UNIX  
fragments?  We're getting closer to having our -7 running, likely  
before summer here in the Other Hemisphere.  BTW, do you know  
anything of the whereabouts of LISP for the -7?  I know it existed,  
as a descendant of the PDP-1 interpreter, but I have had no luck so  
far finding it.  I may just write one of my own, premised on the  
functionality of the -1 version, but for history's sake I'd love to  
find a paper tape (or image thereof) of the original -7  
implementation.  Wishing in my one hand....  Cheers -- Ian

On Mar 7, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Warren Toomey wrote:

> As an interesting side-note, last year when we were trying to recover
> the Second Edition commands source code from the s1-bits.gz DECtape  
> image,
> there was a leftover file which I labelled unknown.c.
>
> The Unix tree now shows that V2 unknown.c is actually hyphen.c, which
> reappears in System III:
>
> 	http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V2/cmd/unknown.c
>
> Now, does anybody know what happened to hyphen.c between mid-1972 and
> mid-1980? There is a hyphen(1) V3 manual and a hyphen(6) V4 manual.
>
> Could it have gone off towards PWB or CB UNIX or UNIX/TS?
>
> I wish we could get copies of CB UNIX or UNIX/TS or MERT :-S
>
> Cheers,
> 	Warren
> _______________________________________________
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: 4BSDs now in

[Warren Toomey]

On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 12:14:07PM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> I also want to add these other releases:
>         4BSD
>         4.1BSD which one?
>         4.2BSD
>         4.4BSD
>         LSX

A fair sampling of the 4BSDs and LSX are now in the Unix Tree.
I haven't put 4.3-Tahoe in, but 4.3 and 4.3-Reno are in. What do
you think, is -Tahoe different enough to be a useful addition?

Thanks,
	Warren
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: side scrolling

[Cyrille Lefevre]

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Warren Toomey a écrit :
> If there are any other ones you'd like to see in the tree, let me know.
> Now's the time to ask for any other donations to the Heritage Society.
> If you have any releases which are not yet in the Unix Archive, I'd love
> to know. I still seriously want to get a copy of SysVR4.2, which will go
> into the hidden vault to keep the bits safe until some day when they can
> be let out.

Hi,

things I have :

irix 6.5.5
osf1 1.0.0
solaris 2.6
sunos 4.1.3
sunos 4.1.4
ultrix 2.0
ultrix 4.2
ultrix 4.3
usl 4.2 aka SVR4.2

most in source and binary form.

things I want :

hp-ux 9.x, 10.x and 11.x
aix 4.3 and 5.2

deal :-)

Regards,

Cyrille Lefevre
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: side scrolling

[Michael Kerpan]

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On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:
> I've added side scrolling now. Please have a look at it and see what you think.
> My HTML skills are limited, so if someone can suggest some better HTML code,
> I'd be happy to try it out. All the HTML is in template form, so it should be
> easy enough to try alternatives.
>
> The URL is now officially       http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree
>
> I also want to add these other releases:
>        4BSD
>        4.1BSD which one?
>        4.2BSD
>        4.4BSD
>        LSX
>        Ultrix-32 which one?
>        Venix?
>
> If there are any other ones you'd like to see in the tree, let me know.
> Now's the time to ask for any other donations to the Heritage Society.
> If you have any releases which are not yet in the Unix Archive, I'd love
> to know. I still seriously want to get a copy of SysVR4.2, which will go
> into the hidden vault to keep the bits safe until some day when they can
> be let out.

How about addid a couple of modern FOSS Unix descendants like FreeBSD
and NetBSD and OpenSolaris. It would be great to see just how much V7
code still lives in these newer systems.

Anyway, I don't have anything new to offer except for my words of
gratitude. The source comparison feature is just plain awesome. It
makes me feel like one of those scientists who figures out family
trees by doing DNA comparisons ;)

Mike

[TUHS] Unix Tree: what else?

[Warren Toomey]

On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 08:22:01AM -0500, Michael Kerpan wrote:
> How about addid a couple of modern FOSS Unix descendants like FreeBSD
> and NetBSD and OpenSolaris. It would be great to see just how much V7
> code still lives in these newer systems.

Good idea. I might do a subset of OpenSolaris and FreeBSD: they are just
way too big :)

Maybe also Minix and an early Linux.

Thanks,
	Warren
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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Warren Toomey]

I've added a better assembly parser, and a manpage/textfile parser to the
Unix Tree, and I've also imported the plaintext from the 1st Edition manuals
which Dennis Ritchie scanned in. Some interesting results:

There are still some vestiges of the 1st Edition manuals in 4.4BSD:

http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V1/man/manintro.txt
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V1/man/man1/ed.1
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V1/man/man1/ld.1

among others.

Cheers,
	Warren
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[TUHS] New Unix Tree website

[Larry McVoy]

Doesn't suprise me at all.  I looked at the code when the BSD fuss 
was going on and bmap() was still the same.  After all those years and 
all that fuss.  Jolitz was right.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 01:43:11PM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> I've added a better assembly parser, and a manpage/textfile parser to the
> Unix Tree, and I've also imported the plaintext from the 1st Edition manuals
> which Dennis Ritchie scanned in. Some interesting results:
> 
> There are still some vestiges of the 1st Edition manuals in 4.4BSD:
> 
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V1/man/manintro.txt
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V1/man/man1/ed.1
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V1/man/man1/ld.1
> 
> among others.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com
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[TUHS] Unix Tree: demos

[Jason Stevens]

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Yeah, that'd be great! I've heard it's v6 with lots of bsd.. But it'd be cool to look at it!



-- Sent from my Palm Prē
On Mar 7, 2010 7:23 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote: 

On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 07:06:28PM -0500, Jason Stevens wrote:

> Seems to not include full source... I haven't gotten SIMH to boot the thing,

> nor some of the... "interesting" Russian PDP-11 emulators..  I ran strings

> through the disks, and I got some basic header files, oddly all in English,

> but no kernel or system source code, just some Fortran example....

> I'll have to ask someone in Russia if they have any real solid leads on

> DEMOS... It seems that once the Soviet Union fell, everyone abandoned DEMOS

> for any of the BSD's...



I can put up a tarball of the stuff I have for you, if you want.

	Warren


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