[TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Warner Losh]

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I'm trying to grab some stuff from bitsavers.org. It seems to be failing to
lookup name records. I'd send mail directly to Al, but the only address I
have for him at at bitsavers.org :(

Anybody have a better contact or good back-channel to Al?

Warner

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Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Gregg Levine]

Hello!
Sadly I do not, but have you tried any of their mirrors? The one at
http://www.mirrorservice.org/ which is called "The UK Mirror Service"
which is based in Kent (UK) has everything.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 3:11 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to grab some stuff from bitsavers.org. It seems to be failing to lookup name records. I'd send mail directly to Al, but the only address I have for him at at bitsavers.org :(
>
> Anybody have a better contact or good back-channel to Al?
>
> Warner

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Warner Losh]

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On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 2:41 PM Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello!
> Sadly I do not, but have you tried any of their mirrors? The one at
> http://www.mirrorservice.org/ which is called "The UK Mirror Service"
> which is based in Kent (UK) has everything.
>

(a) Yes. Those work great.
(b) I texted Al and he's on top of it.

Warner

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Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Tomasz Rola]

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 01:06:49PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
> I'm trying to grab some stuff from bitsavers.org. It seems to be failing to
> lookup name records. I'd send mail directly to Al, but the only address I
> have for him at at bitsavers.org :(

I could grab the ip from dns (71.91.242.107, apparently) but the route
(from my side of the ocean, at least) goes into the woods and gets
lost there (but the woods are in States, at least). It is being hosted
in same ip pool as classiccmp.org (71.91.242.75) - both by the same
provider AFAICT - and the route to classicmp goes into the woods,
too. At least right now, on my end of cable.

So in short, it looks like somebody dropped their router on the floor?
Hard fridays night, perhaps. Power glitch?

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com             **

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Al Kossow]

On 1/17/20 3:24 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote:

> So in short, it looks like somebody dropped their router on the floor?
> Hard fridays night, perhaps. Power glitch?
> 

The entire classiccmp server was lost. The bitsavers data is safe since
I maintain my own copy, and the mirrors should have the image of it before
the crash, which was the whole point of having the site completely static.
If Jay decides not to continue hosting bitsavers, this may be the end
since I can't afford to host the site.

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 18 Jan 2020 10:20 -0800, from aek@bitsavers.org (Al Kossow):
> The bitsavers data is safe since
> I maintain my own copy, and the mirrors should have the image of it before
> the crash, which was the whole point of having the site completely static.
> If Jay decides not to continue hosting bitsavers, this may be the end
> since I can't afford to host the site.

If that does turn out to be the case, might you consider transferring
the data wholesale to, say, the Internet Archive?

Out of curiosity, how much data are we talking about?

-- 
Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael@kjorling.se
 “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Al Kossow]

On 1/18/20 12:04 PM, Michael Kjörling wrote:

> If that does turn out to be the case, might you consider transferring
> the data wholesale to, say, the Internet Archive?

Jason already takes everything.
We have mutually different goals. I want the data everywhere, they only want it at the IA

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[arnold]

Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 1/18/20 12:04 PM, Michael Kjörling wrote:
>
> > If that does turn out to be the case, might you consider transferring
> > the data wholesale to, say, the Internet Archive?
>
> Jason already takes everything.
> We have mutually different goals. I want the data everywhere, they only want it at the IA
>

Perhaps some sort of crowd-funding would let you continue running things?

Just a thought,

Arnold

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Al Kossow]

On 1/18/20 12:19 PM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:

> Perhaps some sort of crowd-funding would let you continue running things?
> 

Let's see what happens with the server first.
I have a copy of the most recent data, and the mirrors are all still there.
I've asked that we disable the rsyncs until we can do
a fixity check.

I have no idea how much bandwith is used. The archive is about 300gb

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Jim Geist]

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I mainly lurk here but if something will help save bitsavers I'm in. I've
gotten way to much use out of it over the years to not contribute if needed.

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 3:26 PM Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:

>
> On 1/18/20 12:19 PM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
>
> > Perhaps some sort of crowd-funding would let you continue running things?
> >
>
> Let's see what happens with the server first.
> I have a copy of the most recent data, and the mirrors are all still there.
> I've asked that we disable the rsyncs until we can do
> a fixity check.
>
> I have no idea how much bandwith is used. The archive is about 300gb
>
>

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Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Adam Thornton]

So…that’s not a lot of archive, so I’m guessing that it’s outbound bandwidth that will be the driving cost.  But even that…how popular is it _really_ ?

It seems like, given the nature of the collection, it might not be hard to persuade one of the cloud providers into discounted rates for hosting, although…it’s so small that that might not work, because that little data, well, you’re not a customer big enough to have a Google or Amazon rep.

I’ll put out some feelers.  Rough bandwidth data, if we can figure out some way to find it, would be good to have.

Adam

> On Jan 18, 2020, at 1:24 PM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 1/18/20 12:19 PM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps some sort of crowd-funding would let you continue running things?
>> 
> 
> Let's see what happens with the server first.
> I have a copy of the most recent data, and the mirrors are all still there.
> I've asked that we disable the rsyncs until we can do
> a fixity check.
> 
> I have no idea how much bandwith is used. The archive is about 300gb
> 

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Toby Thain]

On 2020-01-18 3:19 PM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 1/18/20 12:04 PM, Michael Kjörling wrote:
>>
>>> If that does turn out to be the case, might you consider transferring
>>> the data wholesale to, say, the Internet Archive?
>>
>> Jason already takes everything.
>> We have mutually different goals. I want the data everywhere, they only want it at the IA
>>
> 
> Perhaps some sort of crowd-funding would let you continue running things?

Hm, let's see... the richest man in the world owns some kind of cloud
infra... I guess he's not very interested in computing history though.

> 
> Just a thought,
> 
> Arnold
> 

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Steve Nickolas]

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On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, Adam Thornton wrote:

> So…that’s not a lot of archive, so I’m guessing that it’s outbound 
> bandwidth that will be the driving cost.  But even that…how popular is 
> it _really_ ?
>
> It seems like, given the nature of the collection, it might not be hard 
> to persuade one of the cloud providers into discounted rates for 
> hosting, although…it’s so small that that might not work, because that 
> little data, well, you’re not a customer big enough to have a Google or 
> Amazon rep.
>
> I’ll put out some feelers.  Rough bandwidth data, if we can figure out 
> some way to find it, would be good to have.

What about renting an OVH server and slapping it on that?  I think the 
KimSufi 1 is 500 GB disk space - dunno if that's cheap enough.

-uso.

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Adam Thornton]

> On Jan 18, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, Adam Thornton wrote:
> 
>> So…that’s not a lot of archive, so I’m guessing that it’s outbound bandwidth that will be the driving cost.  But even that…how popular is it _really_ ?
>> 
>> It seems like, given the nature of the collection, it might not be hard to persuade one of the cloud providers into discounted rates for hosting, although…it’s so small that that might not work, because that little data, well, you’re not a customer big enough to have a Google or Amazon rep.
>> 
>> I’ll put out some feelers.  Rough bandwidth data, if we can figure out some way to find it, would be good to have.
> 
> What about renting an OVH server and slapping it on that?  I think the KimSufi 1 is 500 GB disk space - dunno if that's cheap enough.


A possibly-stopgap-but-maybe-not-idiotic solution just occurred to me.

This isn’t exactly the sort of data that’s GOOD for hosting via Git, since it’s mostly-binary and mostly-read-only.

But checking it into a GitHub public repo until we were told to stop…or checking in some indexes, paying for some S3 buckets, and using Git Large File Support pointing at the buckets for the binary blobs…might not be the dumbest idea in the world.  I mean, GitHub is well-indexed, has a lot of incentive to maintain good backups, and probably isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

Adam

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Toby Thain]

On 2020-01-18 4:04 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, Adam Thornton wrote:
>>
>>> So…that’s not a lot of archive, so I’m guessing that it’s outbound bandwidth that will be the driving cost.  But even that…how popular is it _really_ ?
>>>
>>> It seems like, given the nature of the collection, it might not be hard to persuade one of the cloud providers into discounted rates for hosting, although…it’s so small that that might not work, because that little data, well, you’re not a customer big enough to have a Google or Amazon rep.
>>>
>>> I’ll put out some feelers.  Rough bandwidth data, if we can figure out some way to find it, would be good to have.
>>
>> What about renting an OVH server and slapping it on that?  I think the KimSufi 1 is 500 GB disk space - dunno if that's cheap enough.
> 
> 
> A possibly-stopgap-but-maybe-not-idiotic solution just occurred to me.
> 
> This isn’t exactly the sort of data that’s GOOD for hosting via Git, since it’s mostly-binary and mostly-read-only.
> 
> But checking it into a GitHub public repo until we were told to stop…or checking in some indexes, paying for some S3 buckets, and using Git Large File Support pointing at the buckets for the binary blobs…might not be the dumbest idea in the world.  I mean, GitHub is well-indexed, has a lot of incentive to maintain good backups, and probably isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

S3 already serves static content directly.

Anyone thinking about this problem should consider what you get in S3
that you'd otherwise have to replace in other ways.

--T

> 
> Adam
> 

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 18 Jan 2020 15:53 -0500, from usotsuki@buric.co (Steve Nickolas):
> What about renting an OVH server and slapping it on that?  I think the
> KimSufi 1 is 500 GB disk space - dunno if that's cheap enough.

I just checked with another ISP, just to get a data point. Hetzner
(which has datacenters in Germany and Finland, but I'm not sure how
they feel about customers in the US) charge €0.05/GB/month plus VAT
for extra storage volumes; ignoring VAT, 300 GB comes out to
€15/month. 500 GB would be €25/month. Especially for static content,
their low-end VPS would almost certainly be plenty powerful enough for
serving it, so add €2.50/month for that. So starting at some €20/month
for VPS hosting with sufficient storage. They also include 20 TB/month
outgoing traffic in all VPS plans; additional traffic is extra.
ISP-side backups cost an additional 20%. Add VAT to taste.

I looked at the KimSufi 1; that looks like it comes out to $3.35/month
for their cheapest tier VPS, plus $42/month for 500 GB of storage
(next tier down is 200 GB at $21/month, so not enough). So about
$45/month. Not sure if that's inclusive or exclusive of VAT, but
still, about twice the price.

So if a single server is merely nice to have as opposed to critical,
it definitely looks to be doable with a VPS in the 30-50 currency per
month price range.

-- 
Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael@kjorling.se
 “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Tomasz Rola]

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:20:05AM -0800, Al Kossow wrote:
> 
> 
> On 1/17/20 3:24 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> 
> > So in short, it looks like somebody dropped their router on the floor?
> > Hard fridays night, perhaps. Power glitch?
> > 
> 
> The entire classiccmp server was lost. 
[...]

Holy crap. Does it mean the content hosted there (which includes some
long gone collector's websites) is gone too? I have copied some of it
for my own purposes, but it is far from being complete or anything
like this.

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com             **

Re: [TUHS] bitsavers.org down?

[Al Kossow]

On 1/18/20 1:56 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote:

>> The entire classiccmp server was lost. 
> [...]
> 
> Holy crap. Does it mean the content hosted there (which includes some
> long gone collector's websites) is gone too?

We don't know yet. Jay is working on trying to recover it.
This is also why the cctalk/cctech mailing lists are down.

Fortunately, Jay created a Discord channel a few months ago,
so there is a comms channel independent of his servers.