[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Noel Chiappa]

    > From: Tim Newsham

    > Would be great if someone scripted it up to make it dog-simple.

But if people just have to press a button (basically), they won't learn
anything. I guess I'm not understanding the point of the exercise? To say they
have V6 running? So what? All they did was press a button. If it's to
experience a retro-computing environment, well, a person who's never used one
of these older systems is going to be kind of lost - what are they going to
do, type 'ls -ls' and look at the output? Not very illuminating. (On V6,
without learning 'ed', they can't even type in a small C program, and compile
and run it.) Sorry, I don't mean to be cranky, but I'm not understanding the
point.

	Noel

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Grant Taylor]

On 03/28/2017 06:49 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> But if people just have to press a button (basically), they won't learn
> anything. I guess I'm not understanding the point of the exercise? To say they
> have V6 running? So what? All they did was press a button. If it's to
> experience a retro-computing environment, well, a person who's never used one
> of these older systems is going to be kind of lost - what are they going to
> do, type 'ls -ls' and look at the output? Not very illuminating. (On V6,
> without learning 'ed', they can't even type in a small C program, and compile
> and run it.) Sorry, I don't mean to be cranky, but I'm not understanding the
> point.

Conceptually I agree.

However, I've had to teach enough people to know that they need a way to 
boot strap themselves into an environment to start learning.

Thus I find having a streamlined process available to them to be 
beneficial.  Then once they have gotten a taste, presuming they like it, 
they can go back and attempt to do more complicated things.

I do consider what (I believe) Warren put together for the UUCP project 
to be a very good start.  Simple how to style directions that are easy 
to follow that yield a functional system.

Conversely, take a look at what's involved in IPLing a minimal MVS 3.8j 
system in Hercules.  (Ignoring the turn key packages.)



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Tim Newsham]

There's a lot of fun and learning to be had besides doing an install.
An easy entry point encourags more people to learn the system and
get to the point where they could tackle an install of their own.

The script serves two purposes
1) it sets up a clean system
2) it documents the install process

you could also provide a pre-existing built system for
people to play with (which is also useful).  I personally
prefer the script.


On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:

>     > From: Tim Newsham
>
>     > Would be great if someone scripted it up to make it dog-simple.
>
> But if people just have to press a button (basically), they won't learn
> anything. I guess I'm not understanding the point of the exercise? To say
> they
> have V6 running? So what? All they did was press a button. If it's to
> experience a retro-computing environment, well, a person who's never used
> one
> of these older systems is going to be kind of lost - what are they going to
> do, type 'ls -ls' and look at the output? Not very illuminating. (On V6,
> without learning 'ed', they can't even type in a small C program, and
> compile
> and run it.) Sorry, I don't mean to be cranky, but I'm not understanding
> the
> point.
>
>         Noel
>



-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit | thenewsh.blogspot.com
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
 |On 03/28/2017 06:49 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
 |> But if people just have to press a button (basically), they won't learn
 |> anything. I guess I'm not understanding the point of the exercise? \
 |> To say they
 |> have V6 running? So what? All they did was press a button. If it's to
 |> experience a retro-computing environment, well, a person who's never \
 |> used one
 |> of these older systems is going to be kind of lost - what are they \
 |> going to
 |> do, type 'ls -ls' and look at the output? Not very illuminating. (On V6,
 |> without learning 'ed', they can't even type in a small C program, \
 |> and compile
 |> and run it.) Sorry, I don't mean to be cranky, but I'm not understanding \
 |> the
 |> point.
 |
 |Conceptually I agree.
 |
 |However, I've had to teach enough people to know that they need a way to 
 |boot strap themselves into an environment to start learning.

That reminds me of the only service call i ever made to the RedHat
Service in Germany, likely about 18 years ago, when i asked them
how a system can be bootstrapped, how to overcome that chicken and
egg problem.

 |Thus I find having a streamlined process available to them to be 
 |beneficial.  Then once they have gotten a taste, presuming they like it, 
 |they can go back and attempt to do more complicated things.

There was only silence (but he really was a really good one and it
was a deafening silence).

That is what you are for, we only know about roasted chicken and
fried egg (only meant idiomatic) in real practice.

And thanks all living and all passed for the 8th, 9th and 10th
Edition, now i can complete the complete mail history (already
Mail and mailx in V10!).

--steffen

[TUHS] Release of 8th, 9th and 10th Editions Unix (was: Re: 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH)

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

i wrote:
 |And thanks all living and all passed for the 8th, 9th and 10th
 |Edition, now i can complete the complete mail history (already
 |Mail and mailx in V10!).

The V9 ball does not show any trace of Mail/mailx?, however.
I would be tremendously thrilled if i could get my hands on a copy
of V9 code of the mentioned, may it be today or in the future.

Thank you so much!

--steffen

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Kurt H Maier]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 09:04:37PM -0400, Norman Wilson wrote:
> 
> None of which says what Plan 9 did with that file descriptor,
> though I suppose it could possibly have copied the /dev/tty
> use.

Plan 9 doesn't have TTYs baked in.

> And none of that excuses the hard-coded magic number file
> descriptor, but hackers will be hackers.

Wasn't intended for commit.

khm

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Norman Wilson]

Tim Newsham:

  I'm not sure what fd 3 is intended to be, but its the telnet socket in p9p.

====

By the 10/e days, file descriptor 3 was /dev/tty.  There was
no more magic driver for /dev/tty; the special file still
existed, but it was a link to /dev/fd/3.

Similarly /dev/stdin stdout stderr were links to /dev/fd/0 1 2.

(I mean real links, not mere symbolic ones.)

I have a vague recollection that early on /dev/tty was fd/127
instead, but that changed somewhere in the middle 8/e era.

None of which says what Plan 9 did with that file descriptor,
though I suppose it could possibly have copied the /dev/tty
use.

And none of that excuses the hard-coded magic number file
descriptor, but hackers will be hackers.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Tim Newsham]

the plan9port of blit is now usable. (I also updated myv8 to include blit
supporting materials)

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Tim Newsham <tim.newsham at gmail.com> wrote:

> I got the 9front blit sources to build and run in plan9port.  There's
> some serious graphics issue right now causing a lot of flicker and
> sometimes causing the graphics to not appear at all..  Anyone here
> good with plan9port graphics ports?
>
> https://github.com/timnewsham/blit
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Michael Kerpan <mjkerpan at kerpan.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Has the Blit emulator been ported to anything other than Plan 9 or
>> does one need to set up a VM running Plan 9 to test out the graphics?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:30 PM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > This image is ready to be used with aiju's Blit emulator,
>> > which is available as part of 9front.
>> >
>> > http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit
>> >
>> > This emulator works on most Plan 9 distributions. You just
>> > have to copy the /sys/lib/blit and /sys/src/games/blit
>> > directories to your system.
>> >
>> > With the v8.ini startup file provided, the console will be
>> > listening on port 8888/tcp once SIMH has been started.
>> >
>> > You have to run the emulator and connect to the console:
>> >
>> > % cd /sys/src/games/blit
>> > % mk install
>> > % games/blit -t tcp!hostname!8888
>> >
>> > Once connected, enter your login and password.
>> >
>> > login: root
>> >
>> > Then, you can launch the mux window system:
>> >
>> > $ /usr/blit/bin/mux
>> >
>> > Once started, you can run any graphical program.
>> > Binaries are located in the /usr/blit/bin directory.
>> >
>> > For example, here is jim text editor:
>> >
>> > http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png
>> >
>> > --
>> > David du Colombier
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit |
> thenewsh.blogspot.com
>



-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit | thenewsh.blogspot.com
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Dave Horsfall]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, Arthur Krewat wrote:

> Who hard-codes a file handle?

It was fairly common in the early days, when FDs were predictable.

> FD 3 would be the first FD opened after stdin, stdout, and stderr.

And given that it's writing something called "rom", it's probably a ROM 
image.

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Kurt H Maier]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 12:45:17PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> Do you know who wrote the /sys/src/games/blit emulator?
> There's a piece of code in it that I had to comment out that
> I dont understand and I want to ask about it:
> 
>         }
> -       write(3, rom, sizeof(rom));
> +    /* I dont know what this was for, but it spews garbage
> +     * out telnet to the vax, causing it to hang.
> +     */
> +       //write(3, rom, sizeof(rom));
>  }
> 
> I'm not sure what fd 3 is intended to be, but its the telnet socket in p9p.

aiju (not on this list) wrote games/blit.  You're working from a copy a
couple revisions behind;  that line was leftover debugging stuff removed
in revision 6842e7932c68 in the 9front tree, which is available at
http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front


khm

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Arthur Krewat]

Who hard-codes a file handle?

FD 3 would be the first FD opened after stdin, stdout, and stderr.



On 4/26/2017 6:45 PM, Tim Newsham wrote:
> Do you know who wrote the /sys/src/games/blit emulator?
> There's a piece of code in it that I had to comment out that
> I dont understand and I want to ask about it:
>
>         }
> -       write(3, rom, sizeof(rom));
> +    /* I dont know what this was for, but it spews garbage
> +     * out telnet to the vax, causing it to hang.
> +     */
> +       //write(3, rom, sizeof(rom));
>  }
>
> I'm not sure what fd 3 is intended to be, but its the telnet socket in 
> p9p.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:30 AM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com 
> <mailto:0intro at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     This image is ready to be used with aiju's Blit emulator,
>     which is available as part of 9front.
>
>     http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit
>     <http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit>
>
>     This emulator works on most Plan 9 distributions. You just
>     have to copy the /sys/lib/blit and /sys/src/games/blit
>     directories to your system.
>
>     With the v8.ini startup file provided, the console will be
>     listening on port 8888/tcp once SIMH has been started.
>
>     You have to run the emulator and connect to the console:
>
>     % cd /sys/src/games/blit
>     % mk install
>     % games/blit -t tcp!hostname!8888
>
>     Once connected, enter your login and password.
>
>     login: root
>
>     Then, you can launch the mux window system:
>
>     $ /usr/blit/bin/mux
>
>     Once started, you can run any graphical program.
>     Binaries are located in the /usr/blit/bin directory.
>
>     For example, here is jim text editor:
>
>     http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png
>     <http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png>
>
>     --
>     David du Colombier
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham 
> <http://www.thenewsh.com/%7Enewsham> | @newshtwit | 
> thenewsh.blogspot.com <http://thenewsh.blogspot.com>

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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Tim Newsham]

Do you know who wrote the /sys/src/games/blit emulator?
There's a piece of code in it that I had to comment out that
I dont understand and I want to ask about it:

        }
-       write(3, rom, sizeof(rom));
+    /* I dont know what this was for, but it spews garbage
+     * out telnet to the vax, causing it to hang.
+     */
+       //write(3, rom, sizeof(rom));
 }

I'm not sure what fd 3 is intended to be, but its the telnet socket in p9p.


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:30 AM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com>
wrote:

> This image is ready to be used with aiju's Blit emulator,
> which is available as part of 9front.
>
> http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit
>
> This emulator works on most Plan 9 distributions. You just
> have to copy the /sys/lib/blit and /sys/src/games/blit
> directories to your system.
>
> With the v8.ini startup file provided, the console will be
> listening on port 8888/tcp once SIMH has been started.
>
> You have to run the emulator and connect to the console:
>
> % cd /sys/src/games/blit
> % mk install
> % games/blit -t tcp!hostname!8888
>
> Once connected, enter your login and password.
>
> login: root
>
> Then, you can launch the mux window system:
>
> $ /usr/blit/bin/mux
>
> Once started, you can run any graphical program.
> Binaries are located in the /usr/blit/bin directory.
>
> For example, here is jim text editor:
>
> http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png
>
> --
> David du Colombier
>



-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit | thenewsh.blogspot.com
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Tim Newsham]

I got it sorted.. the program was mistakenly thinking there
were constant window resizes.  the flicker is now solved.
There is still some issue where the keyboard processing
is sometimes getting stuck during startup...  when it
works, it seems to work well, but it usually fails on startup..
more debugging.


On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Noel Hunt <noel.hunt at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have ported the original Blit pads to use the Plan9 graphics
> primitives in the plan9port. I have also got a few of the jerq
> test programs running under plan9port. Are you struggling with
> how to translate 'bitblt' and 'rectf' into Plan9 equivalents?
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Tim Newsham <tim.newsham at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I got the 9front blit sources to build and run in plan9port.  There's
>> some serious graphics issue right now causing a lot of flicker and
>> sometimes causing the graphics to not appear at all..  Anyone here
>> good with plan9port graphics ports?
>>
>> https://github.com/timnewsham/blit
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Michael Kerpan <mjkerpan at kerpan.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Has the Blit emulator been ported to anything other than Plan 9 or
>>> does one need to set up a VM running Plan 9 to test out the graphics?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:30 PM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > This image is ready to be used with aiju's Blit emulator,
>>> > which is available as part of 9front.
>>> >
>>> > http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit
>>> >
>>> > This emulator works on most Plan 9 distributions. You just
>>> > have to copy the /sys/lib/blit and /sys/src/games/blit
>>> > directories to your system.
>>> >
>>> > With the v8.ini startup file provided, the console will be
>>> > listening on port 8888/tcp once SIMH has been started.
>>> >
>>> > You have to run the emulator and connect to the console:
>>> >
>>> > % cd /sys/src/games/blit
>>> > % mk install
>>> > % games/blit -t tcp!hostname!8888
>>> >
>>> > Once connected, enter your login and password.
>>> >
>>> > login: root
>>> >
>>> > Then, you can launch the mux window system:
>>> >
>>> > $ /usr/blit/bin/mux
>>> >
>>> > Once started, you can run any graphical program.
>>> > Binaries are located in the /usr/blit/bin directory.
>>> >
>>> > For example, here is jim text editor:
>>> >
>>> > http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > David du Colombier
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit |
>> thenewsh.blogspot.com
>>
>
>


-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit | thenewsh.blogspot.com
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Noel Hunt]

I have ported the original Blit pads to use the Plan9 graphics
primitives in the plan9port. I have also got a few of the jerq
test programs running under plan9port. Are you struggling with
how to translate 'bitblt' and 'rectf' into Plan9 equivalents?


On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Tim Newsham <tim.newsham at gmail.com> wrote:

> I got the 9front blit sources to build and run in plan9port.  There's
> some serious graphics issue right now causing a lot of flicker and
> sometimes causing the graphics to not appear at all..  Anyone here
> good with plan9port graphics ports?
>
> https://github.com/timnewsham/blit
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Michael Kerpan <mjkerpan at kerpan.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Has the Blit emulator been ported to anything other than Plan 9 or
>> does one need to set up a VM running Plan 9 to test out the graphics?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:30 PM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > This image is ready to be used with aiju's Blit emulator,
>> > which is available as part of 9front.
>> >
>> > http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit
>> >
>> > This emulator works on most Plan 9 distributions. You just
>> > have to copy the /sys/lib/blit and /sys/src/games/blit
>> > directories to your system.
>> >
>> > With the v8.ini startup file provided, the console will be
>> > listening on port 8888/tcp once SIMH has been started.
>> >
>> > You have to run the emulator and connect to the console:
>> >
>> > % cd /sys/src/games/blit
>> > % mk install
>> > % games/blit -t tcp!hostname!8888
>> >
>> > Once connected, enter your login and password.
>> >
>> > login: root
>> >
>> > Then, you can launch the mux window system:
>> >
>> > $ /usr/blit/bin/mux
>> >
>> > Once started, you can run any graphical program.
>> > Binaries are located in the /usr/blit/bin directory.
>> >
>> > For example, here is jim text editor:
>> >
>> > http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png
>> >
>> > --
>> > David du Colombier
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit |
> thenewsh.blogspot.com
>
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Cory Smelosky]

I've invited you to the TUHS github group so you can toss it there, too.

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, at 20:16, Tim Newsham wrote:
> I put together some scripts to install V8 from tape:
> https://github.com/timnewsham/myv8
> 
> My goals are (roughly in order):
>   - easy to use
>   - documentary
>   - reproducible
> 
> I also moved my earlier v6 installer to github for convenience:
> https://github.com/timnewsham/myv6
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Tim Newsham
> <tim.newsham at gmail.com> wrote:>> Would be great if someone scripted it up to make it dog-simple.
>> Here's how I did it for v6:
>> http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/myv6/README>> (I should do this, but I'm not sure I'll have time in the near
>> future).>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 8:58 AM, David du Colombier
>> <0intro at gmail.com> wrote:>>> Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.
>>> 
>>> http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8
>>> 
>>>  These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
>>>  sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.
>>> 
>>>  Fell free to use, improve and share.
>>> 
>>>  --
>>>  David du Colombier
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit |
>> thenewsh.blogspot.com>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit |
> thenewsh.blogspot.com
--
  Cory Smelosky
  b4 at gewt.net


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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Tim Newsham]

I got the 9front blit sources to build and run in plan9port.  There's
some serious graphics issue right now causing a lot of flicker and
sometimes causing the graphics to not appear at all..  Anyone here
good with plan9port graphics ports?

https://github.com/timnewsham/blit


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Michael Kerpan <mjkerpan at kerpan.com> wrote:

> Has the Blit emulator been ported to anything other than Plan 9 or
> does one need to set up a VM running Plan 9 to test out the graphics?
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:30 PM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > This image is ready to be used with aiju's Blit emulator,
> > which is available as part of 9front.
> >
> > http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit
> >
> > This emulator works on most Plan 9 distributions. You just
> > have to copy the /sys/lib/blit and /sys/src/games/blit
> > directories to your system.
> >
> > With the v8.ini startup file provided, the console will be
> > listening on port 8888/tcp once SIMH has been started.
> >
> > You have to run the emulator and connect to the console:
> >
> > % cd /sys/src/games/blit
> > % mk install
> > % games/blit -t tcp!hostname!8888
> >
> > Once connected, enter your login and password.
> >
> > login: root
> >
> > Then, you can launch the mux window system:
> >
> > $ /usr/blit/bin/mux
> >
> > Once started, you can run any graphical program.
> > Binaries are located in the /usr/blit/bin directory.
> >
> > For example, here is jim text editor:
> >
> > http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png
> >
> > --
> > David du Colombier
>



-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit | thenewsh.blogspot.com
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[David du Colombier]

> I put together some scripts to install V8 from tape:
> https://github.com/timnewsham/myv8
> 
> My goals are (roughly in order):
>   - easy to use
>   - documentary
>   - reproducible
> 
> I also moved my earlier v6 installer to github for convenience:
> https://github.com/timnewsham/myv6

Very nice work! Thanks.

-- 
David du Colombier

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Tim Newsham]

I put together some scripts to install V8 from tape:
https://github.com/timnewsham/myv8

My goals are (roughly in order):
  - easy to use
  - documentary
  - reproducible

I also moved my earlier v6 installer to github for convenience:
https://github.com/timnewsham/myv6


On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Tim Newsham <tim.newsham at gmail.com> wrote:

> Would be great if someone scripted it up to make it dog-simple.
> Here's how I did it for v6: http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/myv6/README
> (I should do this, but I'm not sure I'll have time in the near future).
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 8:58 AM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.
>>
>> http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8
>>
>> These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
>> sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.
>>
>> Fell free to use, improve and share.
>>
>> --
>> David du Colombier
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit |
> thenewsh.blogspot.com
>



-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit | thenewsh.blogspot.com
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Nelson H. F. Beebe]

I was pleased to see the announcement from David du Colombier
<0intro at gmail.com> of a SIMH VAX image for the newly-released 8th
Edition Research Unix, and I had it downloaded and running in short
order.

I compiled and ran the traditional hello-world test in C,
successfully, but the C++ and Fortran companions would not link:

        # cat hello.cpp
        #include <stream>

        int 
        main(void)
        {
          cout << "Hello, world...this is C++" << endl;
          return (0);
        }

        # CC hello.cpp
        cc    hello.cpp -lC
        ld:hello.cpp: bad magic number

I also tried extensions .C, .cxx, and .cc, with the same error.

With Fortran, I get 

        # cat hello.f
              print *,'hello ... This is a Fortran 77 program!'
              end

        # f77 hello.f
        hello.f:
           MAIN:
        Undefined:
        __bufendtab
        _setvbuf

The missing symbols do not appear to be defined anywhere in /lib or
/usr/lib, suggesting that some V8 libraries have been lost.

David reports privately that he sees the same issues that I see.

Can anyone on this list identify the problem?  Normally, Unix
compilers should supply the necessary libraries for
standard-conforming code, and f77 would silently add -lI77 and -lF77.

The C++ compiler issue seems to be quite different: adding the -v
(trace) option shows what it does:

	# CC -v hello.cpp
	cc    -v hello.cpp -lC
	+ ld -X /lib/crt0.o hello.cpp -lC -lc 
	ld:hello.cpp: bad magic number

The source code, rather than the object code, is passed to the loader.
This may have to do with the choice of extension: what did early C++
compilers expect for filenames?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254                  -
- University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148                  -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail: beebe at math.utah.edu  -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe at acm.org  beebe at computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Michael Kerpan]

VMs take up less space in the house :)

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:36 AM, Kurt H Maier <khm at sciops.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 01:05:16AM -0400, Michael Kerpan wrote:
>> Has the Blit emulator been ported to anything other than Plan 9 or
>> does one need to set up a VM running Plan 9 to test out the graphics?
>
> 9front works fine on actual hardware, no vm necessary.
>
> khm

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Kurt H Maier]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 01:05:16AM -0400, Michael Kerpan wrote:
> Has the Blit emulator been ported to anything other than Plan 9 or
> does one need to set up a VM running Plan 9 to test out the graphics?

9front works fine on actual hardware, no vm necessary.

khm

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Michael Kerpan]

Has the Blit emulator been ported to anything other than Plan 9 or
does one need to set up a VM running Plan 9 to test out the graphics?

Mike

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:30 PM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com> wrote:
> This image is ready to be used with aiju's Blit emulator,
> which is available as part of 9front.
>
> http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit
>
> This emulator works on most Plan 9 distributions. You just
> have to copy the /sys/lib/blit and /sys/src/games/blit
> directories to your system.
>
> With the v8.ini startup file provided, the console will be
> listening on port 8888/tcp once SIMH has been started.
>
> You have to run the emulator and connect to the console:
>
> % cd /sys/src/games/blit
> % mk install
> % games/blit -t tcp!hostname!8888
>
> Once connected, enter your login and password.
>
> login: root
>
> Then, you can launch the mux window system:
>
> $ /usr/blit/bin/mux
>
> Once started, you can run any graphical program.
> Binaries are located in the /usr/blit/bin directory.
>
> For example, here is jim text editor:
>
> http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png
>
> --
> David du Colombier

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[David du Colombier]

This image is ready to be used with aiju's Blit emulator,
which is available as part of 9front.

http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/tip/sys/src/games/blit

This emulator works on most Plan 9 distributions. You just
have to copy the /sys/lib/blit and /sys/src/games/blit
directories to your system.

With the v8.ini startup file provided, the console will be
listening on port 8888/tcp once SIMH has been started.

You have to run the emulator and connect to the console:

% cd /sys/src/games/blit
% mk install
% games/blit -t tcp!hostname!8888

Once connected, enter your login and password.

login: root

Then, you can launch the mux window system:

$ /usr/blit/bin/mux

Once started, you can run any graphical program.
Binaries are located in the /usr/blit/bin directory.

For example, here is jim text editor:

http://9legacy.org/img/v8/jim_01.png

-- 
David du Colombier

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[David du Colombier]

I've created a 8th Edition Unix disk image for SIMH.

http://9legacy.org/download/unix/v8-simh.tar.bz2

This archive contains the RP06 disk image and
the startup file. 

You can run it this way :

$ simh-vax780 v8.ini

Let me know if you encounter any issue.

-- 
David du Colombier

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Jason Stevens]

Thanks for the hints, and whatnot... I got v8 running!

> ----------
> From: 	Tim Newsham
> Sent: 	Wednesday, March 29, 2017 7:50 AM
> To: 	David du Colombier
> Cc: 	The Eunuchs Hysterical Society
> Subject: 	Re: [TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH
> 
> Would be great if someone scripted it up to make it dog-simple.
> Here's how I did it for v6:  http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/myv6/README
> (I should do this, but I'm not sure I'll have time in the near future).
> 
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 8:58 AM, David du Colombier < 0intro at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 	Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.
> 
> 	http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8
> 
> 	These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
> 	sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.
> 
> 	Fell free to use, improve and share.
> 
> 	--
> 	David du Colombier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit |
> thenewsh.blogspot.com
> 

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Grant Taylor]

On 03/28/2017 07:45 PM, Noel Chiappa via TUHS wrote:
> Right, but wouldn't they learn more from a clear and concise hand-holding
> which explains what they are doing and why - 'do this which does that to get
> this'?

Sadly, the answer for some of the Jr. Admins that I've had the ... let's 
say pleasure ... of working with over the last five years cause me to 
first answer "No" and then answer "Yes".

I say "No" because they would get bored and would not actually complete 
the task, much less learn anything.  The answer is obviously "Yes" for 
those that would complete the task.  -  I found that I had to give 
people a caret to get them to want them to put in more effort.  Perhaps 
it's just the batch of Jr. Admins that I was dealing with.

I see and completely agree with your point for those that are properly 
motivated for the long haul.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Steve Nickolas]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017, Noel Chiappa via TUHS wrote:

>    > From: Grant Taylor
>
>    > However, I've had to teach enough people to know that they need a way to
>    > boot strap themselves into an environment to start learning.
>
> Right, but wouldn't they learn more from a clear and concise hand-holding
> which explains what they are doing and why - 'do this which does that to get
> this'?
>
> There is no more a royal road to knowing a system, than there is to
> mathematics.
>
>    > I do consider what (I believe) Warren put together for the UUCP project
>    > to be a very good start.  Simple how to style directions that are easy
>    > to follow that yield a functional system.
>
> Exactly....
>
> 	Noel
>

And of course it's not going to help much if you want to do something 
weirder, like see if you can pull it up on x86 (which is what I'd like to 
do with it) xD

Though perhaps some of the same steps may apply...

-uso.

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Noel Chiappa]

    > From: Grant Taylor

    > However, I've had to teach enough people to know that they need a way to
    > boot strap themselves into an environment to start learning.

Right, but wouldn't they learn more from a clear and concise hand-holding
which explains what they are doing and why - 'do this which does that to get
this'?

There is no more a royal road to knowing a system, than there is to
mathematics.

    > I do consider what (I believe) Warren put together for the UUCP project
    > to be a very good start.  Simple how to style directions that are easy
    > to follow that yield a functional system.

Exactly....

	Noel

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Henry Bent]

After looking at some open SIMH bugs, doing "set noasync" seems to fix the
problem.

-Henry

On 28 March 2017 at 21:19, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:

> Yes - there is a SIMH bug
>
> One I think I reported, actually maybe...
>
> Use SIMH 3.8-1
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 28, 2017, at 18:06, Henry Bent via TUHS <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
> wrote:
>
> I can install 4.1BSD just fine, but I seem to be having trouble writing
> anything to a second RP06:
>
> # mkfs /dev/hp1a 7942
> isize = 5072
> m/n = 3 500
> # mkfs /dev/hp1g 145673
> isize = 65488
> m/n = 3 500
> # mount /dev/hp1a /v8
> # mkdir /v8/usr
> # mount /dev/hp1g /v8/usr
> # cd /v8
> # mt rew
> # mt fsf 2
> # tar xvpb 20
> hp0a: hard error sn10 mbsr=82000<PGE,DTCMP> er1=0 er2=0
> hp1a: hard error sn16 er1=5<RMR,ILF> er2=0
> mkdir: cannot make directory adm
> ...
>
> Am I missing something, or did I run into a SIMH bug?  My /dev entries all
> look fine.
>
> -Henry
>
> On 28 March 2017 at 14:58, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.
>>
>> http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8
>>
>> These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
>> sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.
>>
>> Fell free to use, improve and share.
>>
>> --
>> David du Colombier
>>
>
>
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Cory Smelosky]

Yes - there is a SIMH bug

One I think I reported, actually maybe...

Use SIMH 3.8-1

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 28, 2017, at 18:06, Henry Bent via TUHS <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
> 
> I can install 4.1BSD just fine, but I seem to be having trouble writing anything to a second RP06:
> 
> # mkfs /dev/hp1a 7942
> isize = 5072
> m/n = 3 500
> # mkfs /dev/hp1g 145673
> isize = 65488
> m/n = 3 500
> # mount /dev/hp1a /v8
> # mkdir /v8/usr
> # mount /dev/hp1g /v8/usr
> # cd /v8
> # mt rew
> # mt fsf 2
> # tar xvpb 20
> hp0a: hard error sn10 mbsr=82000<PGE,DTCMP> er1=0 er2=0
> hp1a: hard error sn16 er1=5<RMR,ILF> er2=0
> mkdir: cannot make directory adm
> ...
> 
> Am I missing something, or did I run into a SIMH bug?  My /dev entries all look fine.
> 
> -Henry
> 
>> On 28 March 2017 at 14:58, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.
>> 
>> http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8
>> 
>> These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
>> sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.
>> 
>> Fell free to use, improve and share.
>> 
>> --
>> David du Colombier
> 
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Henry Bent]

I can install 4.1BSD just fine, but I seem to be having trouble writing
anything to a second RP06:

# mkfs /dev/hp1a 7942
isize = 5072
m/n = 3 500
# mkfs /dev/hp1g 145673
isize = 65488
m/n = 3 500
# mount /dev/hp1a /v8
# mkdir /v8/usr
# mount /dev/hp1g /v8/usr
# cd /v8
# mt rew
# mt fsf 2
# tar xvpb 20
hp0a: hard error sn10 mbsr=82000<PGE,DTCMP> er1=0 er2=0
hp1a: hard error sn16 er1=5<RMR,ILF> er2=0
mkdir: cannot make directory adm
...

Am I missing something, or did I run into a SIMH bug?  My /dev entries all
look fine.

-Henry

On 28 March 2017 at 14:58, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.
>
> http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8
>
> These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
> sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.
>
> Fell free to use, improve and share.
>
> --
> David du Colombier
>
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Tim Newsham]

Would be great if someone scripted it up to make it dog-simple.
Here's how I did it for v6: http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/myv6/README
(I should do this, but I'm not sure I'll have time in the near future).

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 8:58 AM, David du Colombier <0intro at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.
>
> http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8
>
> These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
> sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.
>
> Fell free to use, improve and share.
>
> --
> David du Colombier
>



-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | @newshtwit | thenewsh.blogspot.com
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[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[Cory Smelosky]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017, at 11:58, David du Colombier wrote:
> Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.
> 
> http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8
> 
> These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
> sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.
> 
> Fell free to use, improve and share.
> 
> -- 
> David du Colombier

Don't forget creating /tmp and /usr/tmp in the v8 environment - `man`
complains otherwise.

-- 
  Cory Smelosky
  b4 at gewt.net

[TUHS] 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH

[David du Colombier]

Here are my notes to run 8th Edition Research Unix on SIMH.

http://9legacy.org/9legacy/doc/simh/v8

These notes are quite raw and unpolished, but should be
sufficient to get Unix running on SIMH.

Fell free to use, improve and share.

-- 
David du Colombier