From: Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com>
To: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] V9 shell [was Re: Warner's Early Unix Presentation]
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 05:54:57 +1100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKzdPgzEYVJ3qivEsvsc6_nUHFt3aO0nOtNpoRxUzMV3TjHMXg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAFNqd5VvUFre1gFKwd9CgMWY_z-+Ji_r5e7Nv0Z4Cez+1-M69g@mail.gmail.com>
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Acme was definitely inspired by Oberon the system. I visited ETH a number
of times in the '80s and there were some properties of Oberon I found
attractive. Acme definitely grew out of thinking I did there, but of course
it was not tied to any language (unlike Oberon or an IDE), but rather
integrated the Plan 9 command environment. Also, the button 3
context-getting thing was completely new, and when I spoke at ETH later
about Acme, Wirth singled out that feature as something of interest.
Sam predates all that.
-rob
On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 5:35 AM Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 at 05:00, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My general mood about the current standard way of nerd working is how
>> unimaginative and old-fashioned it feels. There are countless ways we could
>> be interacting with our terminals, editors, and shells while we program,
>> but for various sociological and historical reasons we're pretty much using
>> one from decades ago. I'm sure it's productive for almost everyone, but it
>> seems dull to me. We could be doing something much more dynamic. I mean,
>> xterm is hardly more sophisticated than the lame terminal code that ran in
>> mpx (ca. 1982), other than colors and cursor addressing, which date from
>> the 1960s via early PCs. IDEs don't sing to me, although they are powerful,
>> because they don't integrate well with the environment, only with the
>> language. And they are just lots of features, not a coherent vision. No
>> model to speak of.
>>
>> Compare what happened with our shell windows with what happened with our
>> "smart" phones in the last 20 years and you'll get some inkling of what I
>> think we're missing. It's not that we should program the way we use
>> iPhones, but that there are fields where user interface work has made a
>> real different recently. Not so in programming, though. We're missing out.
>>
>> But I'm a grumpy old man and getting far off topic. Warren should cry,
>> "enough!".
>>
>
> I recently saw indication that the UI for Sam and Acme were inspired by
> Oberon. (And per url [1] below, Rob Pike is quoted, sort of...)
>
> I'd be interested (and I think that's a TUHS thing ;-) ) in hearing some
> elaboration on that. All that is said is that "Rob was blown away" and
> that this "influenced" Sam/Acme; is there some further explanation of that
> worth pointing at? (Or are some Oberon fans putting words in mouths? ;-) )
>
> [1] https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/pipermail/oberon/2011/006245.html
> --
> When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
> question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-02-11 18:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-02-07 22:25 [TUHS] Warner's Early Unix Presentation Warren Toomey
2020-02-07 23:57 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-08 0:43 ` Warren Toomey
2020-02-08 3:37 ` Warner Losh
2020-02-08 15:15 ` Warner Losh
2020-02-08 21:50 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-08 22:29 ` Chet Ramey
2020-02-08 22:54 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-08 23:02 ` Chet Ramey
2020-02-08 23:11 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-08 23:13 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-08 23:21 ` Kurt H Maier
2020-02-08 23:26 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-08 23:28 ` Chet Ramey
2020-02-08 23:26 ` Chet Ramey
2020-02-08 23:29 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-08 23:35 ` Warner Losh
2020-02-08 23:36 ` Chet Ramey
2020-02-08 23:54 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-09 0:11 ` Chet Ramey
2020-02-09 0:19 ` Larry McVoy
2020-02-08 22:31 ` Richard Salz
2020-02-10 13:18 ` Tony Finch
2020-02-10 15:05 ` Dan Cross
2020-02-10 15:46 ` [TUHS] V9 shell [was Re: Warner's Early Unix Presentation] arnold
2020-02-10 18:39 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-10 18:59 ` Bakul Shah
2020-02-10 19:58 ` Angelo Papenhoff
2020-02-10 20:11 ` Chet Ramey
2020-02-11 9:33 ` arnold
2020-02-11 9:47 ` Noel Hunt
2020-02-11 9:47 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-11 9:59 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-11 17:05 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-02-11 17:18 ` Arthur Krewat
2020-02-11 18:22 ` Kurt H Maier
2020-02-16 21:34 ` Wesley Parish
2020-02-11 18:26 ` Jon Steinhart
2020-02-11 23:56 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-02-12 0:12 ` Jon Steinhart
2020-02-12 1:03 ` [TUHS] V9 shell Warren Toomey
2020-02-12 5:54 ` [TUHS] V9 shell [was Re: Warner's Early Unix Presentation] Rob Pike
2020-02-11 17:36 ` Dan Cross
2020-02-11 18:35 ` Christopher Browne
2020-02-11 18:54 ` Rob Pike [this message]
2020-02-11 21:36 ` Harald Arnesen
2020-02-11 3:32 Doug McIlroy
2020-02-11 3:53 ` Larry McVoy
2020-02-11 11:24 ` Ralph Corderoy
2020-02-11 15:51 ` Larry McVoy
2020-02-11 4:46 ` Warren Toomey
2020-02-11 5:12 ` Steve Nickolas
2020-02-11 6:33 ` Rob Pike
2020-02-11 9:40 ` arnold
2020-02-11 15:06 ` Chet Ramey
2020-02-11 14:36 ` Clem Cole
2020-02-11 15:29 ` Mike Markowski
2020-02-11 16:03 ` Bakul Shah
2020-02-11 17:12 ` Clem Cole
2020-02-11 17:17 ` Steve Nickolas
2020-02-11 17:21 ` Dan Cross
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