[TUHS] Release 5.0 Vs. System V

[TUHS] Release 5.0 Vs. System V

[segaloco via TUHS]

Good morning all, currently trying to sort out one matter that still bewilders me with this documentation I'm working on scanning.

So I've got two copies of the "Release 5.0" User's Manual and one copy of the "System V" User's Manual.  I haven't identified the exact differences, lots of pages...but they certainly are not identical, there are at least a few commands in one and not the other.

Given this, and past discussion, it's obvious Release 5.0 is the internal UNIX version that became System V, but what I'm curious about is if it was ever released publicly as "Release 5.0" before being branded as System V or if the name was System V from the moment the first commercial license was issued.

The reason I wonder this is some inconsistencies in the documentation I see out there.  So both of my Release 5.0 User's Manuals have the Bell logo on the front and no mention of the court order to cease using it.  Likewise, all but one of the System V related documents I received recently contain a Bell logo on the cover next to Western Electric save for the Opeartor's Guide which curiously doesn't exhibit the front page divestiture message that other documents missing the Bell logo include.  Furthermore, the actual cover sheet says "Operator's Guide UNIX System Release 5.0" so technically not System V. In fact, only the User's Manual, Administrator's Manual, Error Message Manual, Transition Aids, and Release Description specifically say System V, all the rest don't have a version listed but some list Release 5.0 on their title page.

Furthering that discrepancy is this which I just purchased: https://www.ebay.com/itm/314135813726?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D242152%26meid%3Dd1b5923533b045acae4f14b9dd8b4e57%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D284965858677%26itm%3D314135813726%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A8d64fbe5-35ed-11ed-8efb-b6aa9c31d728|parentrq%3A47906e531830a0adef7482b3fffe1682|iid%3A1

Link lives as of this sending, but contains a closed auction for an Error Message Manual from the "Release 5.0" documentation line but no Bell logo.  Until the Operator's Guide and this auction link, I haven't seen any "Release 5.0" branded stuff without a Bell logo, and before I bought the System V gold set, I hadn't seen System V branded stuff *with* the Bell logo.

This shatters an assumption that I had made that at the same time the documentation branding shifted to System V was the same time the removal of the Bell logo happened, given that divestiture was what allowed them to aggressively market System V, but now this presents four distinct sets of System V gold documentation:

Release 5.0 w/ Bell logo
Release 5.0 w/o Bell logo
System V w/ Bell logo
System V w/o Bell logo

I'm curious if anyone would happen to know what the significance here is.  The covers are all printed, I can't see any indication that a bunch of 5.0 manuals were retroactively painted over nor that any System V manuals got stamped with a Bell post-production.  What this means is "Release 5.0" documentation was being shipped post-divestiture and "System V" was being shipped pre-divestiture.  If Release 5.0 was publicly sold as System V, then what explains the post-divestiture 5.0 manuals floating around in the wild, and vice versa, if USG couldn't effectively market and support UNIX until the divestiture, how is it so many "Release 5.0" documents are floating around in well produced commercial-quality binding, both pre and post-divestiture by the time the name "System V" would've been king.  Were they still maintaining an internal 5.x branch past System V that warranted its own distinct documentation set even into the commercial period?  This period right around '82-'83 is incredibly fascinating and I feel very under-documented.

- Matt G.

[TUHS] Re: Release 5.0 Vs. System V

[arnold]

It's not surprising that System V branding occurred pre-divestiture.
Remember that they were already marketing System III circa 1980.

As I've mentioned before, when I saw the UNIX 4.0 system in 1981, I was told
that the Bell System ran the current version and released the earlier
one publicly.  Knowledge of the upcoming divestiture apparently caused
someone to decide to just make the internal and external releases the same.

Dunno if this helps. :-)

Arnold

segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> Good morning all, currently trying to sort out one matter that still
> bewilders me with this documentation I'm working on scanning.
> 
> So I've got two copies of the "Release 5.0" User's Manual and one copy of
> the "System V" User's Manual.  I haven't identified the exact differences,
> lots of pages...but they certainly are not identical, there are at least
> a few commands in one and not the other.
> 
> Given this, and past discussion, it's obvious Release 5.0 is the internal
> UNIX version that became System V, but what I'm curious about is if it was
> ever released publicly as "Release 5.0" before being branded as System V
> or if the name was System V from the moment the first commercial license
> was issued.
> 
> The reason I wonder this is some inconsistencies in the documentation I
> see out there.  So both of my Release 5.0 User's Manuals have the Bell
> logo on the front and no mention of the court order to cease using it.
> Likewise, all but one of the System V related documents I received
> recently contain a Bell logo on the cover next to Western Electric save
> for the Opeartor's Guide which curiously doesn't exhibit the front page
> divestiture message that other documents missing the Bell logo include.
> Furthermore, the actual cover sheet says "Operator's Guide UNIX System
> Release 5.0" so technically not System V. In fact, only the User's
> Manual, Administrator's Manual, Error Message Manual, Transition Aids,
> and Release Description specifically say System V, all the rest don't
> have a version listed but some list Release 5.0 on their title page.
>
> Furthering that discrepancy is this which I just purchased: https://www.ebay.com/itm/314135813726?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D242152%26meid%3Dd1b5923533b045acae4f14b9dd8b4e57%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D284965858677%26itm%3D314135813726%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A8d64fbe5-35ed-11ed-8efb-b6aa9c31d728|parentrq%3A47906e531830a0adef7482b3fffe1682|iid%3A1
>
> Link lives as of this sending, but contains a closed auction for an Error
> Message Manual from the "Release 5.0" documentation line but no Bell logo.
> Until the Operator's Guide and this auction link, I haven't seen any
> "Release 5.0" branded stuff without a Bell logo, and before I bought
> the System V gold set, I hadn't seen System V branded stuff *with*
> the Bell logo.
> 
> This shatters an assumption that I had made that at the same time the
> documentation branding shifted to System V was the same time the removal
> of the Bell logo happened, given that divestiture was what allowed them
> to aggressively market System V, but now this presents four distinct
> sets of System V gold documentation:
>
> Release 5.0 w/ Bell logo
> Release 5.0 w/o Bell logo
> System V w/ Bell logo
> System V w/o Bell logo
>
> I'm curious if anyone would happen to know what the significance here is.
> The covers are all printed, I can't see any indication that a bunch of
> 5.0 manuals were retroactively painted over nor that any System V manuals
> got stamped with a Bell post-production.  What this means is "Release
> 5.0" documentation was being shipped post-divestiture and "System V"
> was being shipped pre-divestiture.  If Release 5.0 was publicly sold as
> System V, then what explains the post-divestiture 5.0 manuals floating
> around in the wild, and vice versa, if USG couldn't effectively market
> and support UNIX until the divestiture, how is it so many "Release 5.0"
> documents are floating around in well produced commercial-quality binding,
> both pre and post-divestiture by the time the name "System V" would've
> been king.  Were they still maintaining an internal 5.x branch past
> System V that warranted its own distinct documentation set even into
> the commercial period?  This period right around '82-'83 is incredibly
> fascinating and I feel very under-documented.
>
> - Matt G.

[TUHS] Re: Release 5.0 Vs. System V

[Jonathan Gray]

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 06:48:44PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> Good morning all, currently trying to sort out one matter that still bewilders me with this documentation I'm working on scanning.
> 
> So I've got two copies of the "Release 5.0" User's Manual and one copy of the "System V" User's Manual.  I haven't identified the exact differences, lots of pages...but they certainly are not identical, there are at least a few commands in one and not the other.
> 
> Given this, and past discussion, it's obvious Release 5.0 is the internal UNIX version that became System V, but what I'm curious about is if it was ever released publicly as "Release 5.0" before being branded as System V or if the name was System V from the moment the first commercial license was issued.
> 
> The reason I wonder this is some inconsistencies in the documentation I see out there.  So both of my Release 5.0 User's Manuals have the Bell logo on the front and no mention of the court order to cease using it.  Likewise, all but one of the System V related documents I received recently contain a Bell logo on the cover next to Western Electric save for the Opeartor's Guide which curiously doesn't exhibit the front page divestiture message that other documents missing the Bell logo include.  Furthermore, the actual cover sheet says "Operator's Guide UNIX System Release 5.0" so technically not System V. In fact, only the User's Manual, Administrator's Manual, Error Message Manual, Transition Aids, and Release Description specifically say System V, all the rest don't have a version listed but some list Release 5.0 on their title page.
> 
> Furthering that discrepancy is this which I just purchased: https://www.ebay.com/itm/314135813726?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D242152%26meid%3Dd1b5923533b045acae4f14b9dd8b4e57%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D284965858677%26itm%3D314135813726%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A8d64fbe5-35ed-11ed-8efb-b6aa9c31d728|parentrq%3A47906e531830a0adef7482b3fffe1682|iid%3A1
> 
> Link lives as of this sending, but contains a closed auction for an Error Message Manual from the "Release 5.0" documentation line but no Bell logo.  Until the Operator's Guide and this auction link, I haven't seen any "Release 5.0" branded stuff without a Bell logo, and before I bought the System V gold set, I hadn't seen System V branded stuff *with* the Bell logo.
> 
> This shatters an assumption that I had made that at the same time the documentation branding shifted to System V was the same time the removal of the Bell logo happened, given that divestiture was what allowed them to aggressively market System V, but now this presents four distinct sets of System V gold documentation:
> 
> Release 5.0 w/ Bell logo
> Release 5.0 w/o Bell logo
> System V w/ Bell logo
> System V w/o Bell logo
> 
> I'm curious if anyone would happen to know what the significance here is.  The covers are all printed, I can't see any indication that a bunch of 5.0 manuals were retroactively painted over nor that any System V manuals got stamped with a Bell post-production.  What this means is "Release 5.0" documentation was being shipped post-divestiture and "System V" was being shipped pre-divestiture.  If Release 5.0 was publicly sold as System V, then what explains the post-divestiture 5.0 manuals floating around in the wild, and vice versa, if USG couldn't effectively market and support UNIX until the divestiture, how is it so many "Release 5.0" documents are floating around in well produced commercial-quality binding, both pre and post-divestiture by the time the name "System V" would've been king.  Were they still maintaining an internal 5.x branch past System V that warranted its own distinct documentation set even into the commercial period?  This period right around '82-'83 is incredibly fascinating and I feel very under-documented.

For at least the User's Manual and Administrator's Manual there is
another version.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204176652924?orig_cvip=true
UNIX System User's Manual
Release 5.0
Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands
June 1982
different cover without mention of Western Electric

(another old ebay listing)
UNIX System Administrator's Manual
Release 5.0
Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands
June 1982
same cover as above user's manual

https://books.google.com.au/books/about/UNIX_System_V_Release_2_0.html?id=Qg9bNwAACAAJ
UNIX System V: Release 2.0, User Reference Manual
Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands
December 1983

Pirzada's thesis mentions
5.0, 5.0.1, 5.0.3, 5.0.5
System V 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0, 2.2, 3.0

"Release 5.0, announced in October 1982."

"AT&T's divestiture in 1983 allowed UNIX to compete in the commercial
market place and on 1st January 1983, Commercial System V was announced.
As it was identical to Release 5.0, this was the first time that current
version of UNIX in the Labs was licensed outside."

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/System_V_Release_1/301-905_UNIX_System_V_Release_1_Users_Manual_Jan83.pdf
UNIX System User's Manual
System V
January 1983
301-905 Issue 1

'Pursuant to Judge Greene's Order of August 5, 1983, beginning on
January 1, 1984, AT&T will cease to use "BELL" and the Bell symbol, with
the exceptions as set forth in that Order. Pursuant thereto, any
reference to "BELL" and / or the BELL symbol in this document is hereby
deleted and "expunged".'

AT&T Documentation Guide, 1987:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/att/000-111_ATT_Documentation_Guide_Nov87.pdf

UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S GUIDE   301-931
UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S MANUAL  301-926
UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ERROR MESSAGE MANUAL    301-922
UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 USER'S MANUAL           301-925

UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S GUIDE                             301-939
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S MANUAL                            301-906
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT TOOLS GUIDE           307-235
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE RELEASE NOTES                     307-238
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE SOURCE CODE RELEASE NOTES.        307-236
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE USER'S GUIDE                      307-234
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 DOCUMENT PROCESSING GUIDE                         341-920
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ERROR MESSAGE MANUAL                              301-907
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 GRAPHICS GUIDE                                    341-921
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 OPERATOR'S GUIDE                                  301-941
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 PROGRAMMING GUIDE                                 341-930
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 REMOTE FILE SHARING UTILITIES REFERENCE CARD      307-000
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 SUPPORT TOOLS GUIDE                               341-940
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 SYSTEM RELEASE DESCRIPTION INTERNATIONAL VERSION  307-017
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 TRANSITION AIDS                                   301-908
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 USER'S GUIDE                                      301-921
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 USER'S MANUAL                                     301-905