* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff [not found] ` <Zc86g8c-4HH_VPOa1hRm9KY-41ZzzYnSgir_adjejDy6GrsCxHTb9qwocryL7PTLaPK-e4Feso6SOaaLhzn0UfNRQVX2sD596N1CM7uepjU=@protonmail.com> @ 2024-01-09 22:07 ` Clem Cole 2024-01-10 7:25 ` Lars Brinkhoff 0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread From: Clem Cole @ 2024-01-09 22:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: segaloco; +Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3066 bytes --] Not really UNIX -- so I'm BCC TUHS and moving to COFF On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:19 PM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote: > On the subject of troff origins, in a world where troff didn't exist, and > one purchases a C/A/T, what was the general approach to actually using the > thing? Was there some sort of datasheet the vendor supplied that the end > user would have to program a driver around, or was there any sort of > example code or other materials provided to give folks a leg up on using > their new, expensive instrument? Did they have any "packaged bundles" for > users of prominent systems such as 360/370 OSs or say one of the DEC OSs? > Basically, the phototypesetter part was turnkey with a built-in minicomputer with a paper tape unit, later a micro and a floppy disk as a cost reduction. The preparation for the typesetter was often done independently, but often the vendor offered some system to prepare the PPT or Floppy. Different typesetter vendors targeted different parts of the market, from small local independent newspapers (such as the one my sister and her husband owned and ran in North Andover MA for many years), to systems that Globe or the Times might. Similarly, books and magazines might have different systems (IIRC the APS-5 was originally targeted for large book publishers). This was all referred to as the 'pre-press' industry and there were lots of players in different parts. Large firms that produced documentation, such as DEC, AT&T *et al*., and even some universities, might own their own gear, or they might send it out to be set. The software varied greatly, depending on the target customer. For instance, by the early 80s, the Boston Globe's input system was still terrible - even though the computers had gotten better. I had a couple of friends working there, and they used to b*tch about it. But big newspapers (and I expect many other large publishers) were often heavy union shops on the back end (layout and presses), so the editors just wanted to set strips of "column wide" text as the layout was manual. I've forgotten the name of the vendor of the typesetter they used, but it was one of the larger firms -- IIRC, it had a DG Nova in it. My sister used CompuGraphic Gear, which was based on 8085's. She had two custom editing stations and the typesetter itself (it sucked). The whole system was under $35K in late-1970s money - but targeted to small newspapers like hers. In the mid-1908s, I got her a Masscomp at a reduced price and put 6 Wyse-75 terminals on it, so she could have her folks edit their stories with vi, run spell, and some of the other UNIX tools. I then reverse-engineered the floppy enough to split out the format she wanted for her stories -- she used a manual layout scheme. She still has to use the custom stuff for headlines and some other parts, but it was a load faster and more parallel (for instance, we wrote an awk script to generate the School Lunch menus, which they published each week). ᐧ [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4599 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff 2024-01-09 22:07 ` [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff Clem Cole @ 2024-01-10 7:25 ` Lars Brinkhoff 2024-01-10 17:26 ` Clem Cole 0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2024-01-10 7:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Clem Cole; +Cc: segaloco, Computer Old Farts Followers Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> writes: > The software varied greatly, depending on the target customer. For > instance, by the early 80s, the Boston Globe's input system was still > terrible - even though the computers had gotten better. I had a couple of > friends working there, and they used to b*tch about it. Here's something about Camex used at Boston Globe. https://gunkies.org/wiki/Camexec Any comments or additions to this? I occasionally bug Speciner about scanning his printouts. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff 2024-01-10 7:25 ` Lars Brinkhoff @ 2024-01-10 17:26 ` Clem Cole 0 siblings, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread From: Clem Cole @ 2024-01-10 17:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Brinkhoff; +Cc: segaloco, Computer Old Farts Followers [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3134 bytes --] Rich Salz reminded me of the name of the system I was thinking of -- Atex. Given my later interactions with their editorial and IT departments, I'm not sure that Carnex was in the production system there (particularly given the Gunkies description). I never saw it but it could have been before anyone I knew was working there. By the mid/late 80's, they were using Atex for most things. FWIW: By the mid/late 1980s, the IBM PC had been out for a few years, and many people had access to DOS systems. At the Globe, their Atex System had a 300-baud modem on it (and it was 300 baud, not 1200 because the IT folks at the Globe claimed that the Atex required something special about that model modem -- I never knew what -- I've always guessed it was something to do with the maintenance contract not technical but it was not my job -- I just took it as a wonderment and dealt with it). But the big feature Atex offered the Globe was it allowed the reporters to upload and spool their stories, and then the Atex set the type for the editors independent of the filing. But the reporters had to file their story using a very rigid format convention that they all hated (*i.e.*, ask humans to conform to the needs of the computer, not the other way round). By then, most of the reporters used a PC and a simple word processor to edit and then upload to Atex via a terminal emulator program such as ProComm or Kermit. The Atex side was exceedingly dumb and unforgiving. If the user or the system made any error, Atex would toss the story (*i.e.,* not put anything in the spool), and there was no communications protection so that line noise could cause issues. I never saw their side, but I gather Atex was not too friendly to the editors, as there was no way to find out what had been accepted remotely, so they often had to ask the reporters to file the stories multiple times. My sister was working as an occasional stringer for them, given her statehouse connections. I got her to get me the specs for the Atex input system, and I wrote some scripts for her to use the Masscomp box to prep her stories for them and send them off to the Atex System. I became an informal help desk for several of her reporter and photographer friends. :-) I have some interesting stories WRT to all that - but they are not particularly computer-based -- the Richard Reed (the shoe bomber) story and its famous picture you have all undoubtedly seen is one of my favorites. Clem ᐧ On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 2:25 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote: > Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> writes: > > The software varied greatly, depending on the target customer. For > > instance, by the early 80s, the Boston Globe's input system was still > > terrible - even though the computers had gotten better. I had a couple > of > > friends working there, and they used to b*tch about it. > > Here's something about Camex used at Boston Globe. > https://gunkies.org/wiki/Camexec > > Any comments or additions to this? > > I occasionally bug Speciner about scanning his printouts. > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4942 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2024-01-10 17:26 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 3+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <20240108032428.co3ozmlneoop6sa2@illithid> [not found] ` <20240108051049.7643537404E9@freecalypso.org> [not found] ` <20240108071109.ykg42tw2gjeacs5f@illithid> [not found] ` <20240109093851.2A29737401E3@freecalypso.org> [not found] ` <c9cfe3f4-7751-6e83-113e-734c99de818e@bitsavers.org> [not found] ` <Zc86g8c-4HH_VPOa1hRm9KY-41ZzzYnSgir_adjejDy6GrsCxHTb9qwocryL7PTLaPK-e4Feso6SOaaLhzn0UfNRQVX2sD596N1CM7uepjU=@protonmail.com> 2024-01-09 22:07 ` [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff Clem Cole 2024-01-10 7:25 ` Lars Brinkhoff 2024-01-10 17:26 ` Clem Cole
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).