[COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

[COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

[Clem Cole]

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Not really UNIX -- so I'm BCC TUHS and moving to COFF

On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:19 PM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> On the subject of troff origins, in a world where troff didn't exist, and
> one purchases a C/A/T, what was the general approach to actually using the
> thing?  Was there some sort of datasheet the vendor supplied that the end
> user would have to program a driver around, or was there any sort of
> example code or other materials provided to give folks a leg up on using
> their new, expensive instrument?  Did they have any "packaged bundles" for
> users of prominent systems such as 360/370 OSs or say one of the DEC OSs?
>
Basically, the phototypesetter part was turnkey with a built-in
minicomputer with a paper tape unit, later a micro and a floppy disk as a
cost reduction.   The preparation for the typesetter was often done
independently, but often the vendor offered some system to prepare the PPT
or Floppy.  Different typesetter vendors targeted different parts of the
market, from small local independent newspapers (such as the one my sister
and her husband owned and ran in North Andover MA for many years), to
systems that Globe or the Times might.  Similarly, books and magazines
might have different systems (IIRC the APS-5 was originally targeted for
large book publishers).  This was all referred to as the 'pre-press'
industry and there were lots of players in different parts.

Large firms that produced documentation, such as DEC, AT&T *et al*., and
even some universities, might own their own gear, or they might send it out
to be set.

The software varied greatly, depending on the target customer.   For
instance, by the early 80s,  the Boston Globe's input system was still
terrible - even though the computers had gotten better.  I had a couple of
friends working there, and they used to b*tch about it.  But big newspapers
(and I expect many other large publishers) were often heavy union shops on
the back end (layout and presses), so the editors just wanted to set strips
of "column wide" text as the layout was manual.  I've forgotten the name of
the vendor of the typesetter they used, but it was one of the larger firms
-- IIRC, it had a DG Nova in it.    My sister used CompuGraphic Gear, which
was based on 8085's.  She had two custom editing stations and the
typesetter itself (it sucked).  The whole system was under $35K in
late-1970s money - but targeted to small newspapers like hers. In the
mid-1908s, I got her a Masscomp at a reduced price and put 6 Wyse-75
terminals on it, so she could have her folks edit their stories with vi,
run spell, and some of the other UNIX tools.  I then reverse-engineered the
floppy enough to split out the format she wanted for her stories -- she
used a manual layout scheme.  She still has to use the custom stuff for
headlines and some other parts, but it was a load faster and more parallel
(for instance, we wrote an awk script to generate the School Lunch menus,
which they published each week).

ᐧ

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[COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> writes:
> The software varied greatly, depending on the target customer.   For
> instance, by the early 80s,  the Boston Globe's input system was still
> terrible - even though the computers had gotten better.  I had a couple of
> friends working there, and they used to b*tch about it.

Here's something about Camex used at Boston Globe.
https://gunkies.org/wiki/Camexec

Any comments or additions to this?

I occasionally bug Speciner about scanning his printouts.

[COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

[Clem Cole]

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Rich Salz reminded me of the name of the system I was thinking of -- Atex.
Given my later interactions with their editorial and IT departments, I'm
not sure that Carnex was in the production system there (particularly given
the Gunkies description).  I never saw it but it could have been before
anyone I knew was working there.   By the mid/late 80's, they were using
Atex for most things.

FWIW: By the mid/late 1980s, the IBM PC had been out for a few years, and
many people had access to DOS systems.  At the Globe, their Atex System had
a 300-baud modem on it (and it was 300 baud, not 1200 because the IT folks
at the Globe claimed that the Atex required something special about that
model modem -- I never knew what -- I've always guessed it was something to
do with the maintenance contract not technical but it was not my job -- I
just took it as a wonderment and dealt with it).

But the big feature Atex offered the Globe was it allowed the reporters
to upload and spool their stories, and then the Atex set the type for the
editors independent of the filing. But the reporters had to file their
story using a very rigid format convention that they all hated (*i.e.*, ask
humans to conform to the needs of the computer, not the other way round).
By then, most of the reporters used a PC and a simple word processor to
edit and then upload to Atex via a terminal emulator program such as
ProComm or Kermit.

The Atex side was exceedingly dumb and unforgiving.  If the user or the
system made any error, Atex would toss the story (*i.e.,* not put anything
in the spool), and there was no communications protection so that line
noise could cause issues. I never saw their side, but I gather Atex was not
too friendly to the editors,  as there was no way to find out what had been
accepted remotely, so they often had to ask the reporters to file the
stories multiple times.

My sister was working as an occasional stringer for them, given her
statehouse connections.  I got her to get me the specs for the Atex
input system, and I wrote some scripts for her to use the Masscomp box to
prep her stories for them and send them off to the Atex System.   I became
an informal help desk for several of her reporter and photographer friends.
:-)   I have some interesting stories WRT to all that - but they are not
particularly computer-based -- the Richard Reed (the shoe bomber) story and
its famous picture you have all undoubtedly seen is one of my favorites.

Clem


ᐧ

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 2:25 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:

> Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> writes:
> > The software varied greatly, depending on the target customer.   For
> > instance, by the early 80s,  the Boston Globe's input system was still
> > terrible - even though the computers had gotten better.  I had a couple
> of
> > friends working there, and they used to b*tch about it.
>
> Here's something about Camex used at Boston Globe.
> https://gunkies.org/wiki/Camexec
>
> Any comments or additions to this?
>
> I occasionally bug Speciner about scanning his printouts.
>

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