Re: [9fans] Mars Needs Women

["Patrick Kelly" <kameo76890@gmail.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 9fans-bounces@9fans.net [mailto:9fans-bounces@9fans.net] On Behalf Of Corey
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:14 AM
> To: 9fans@9fans.net
> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mars Needs Women
> 
> On Saturday 24 April 2010 21:20:35 Rahul Murmuria wrote:
> <snip>
> > I would like to point out that the Glendix project has been doing
> > something quite the opposite of what Corey wants,
> >
> 
> ... that's not a strictly accurate statement.
> 
> It infers that "what Corey wants" is to bring GNU and Linux into
> Plan 9.
> 
> Which isn't true.
> 
> The goal of the "Plan X" thought experiment was to query 9fans for
> others who might also be interested in collaboration and discussion
> regarding new and novel uses for Plan 9 os technologies.

Then experiment! So far you've just gotten into philosophical arguments rather than scientific discussion.

> I think there's lot's of potential out there for Plan 9 in "Consumer Space"...
> I honestly thought that I might see more folks interested in imagining
> what glenda looks like outside of the research and data center[1].

Yes there is, so why do you need a fork? Plan 9 would and will suffice.

> 9fans does not have time for such nonsense.

I have enough time to write a complete tool chain, and develop a system that is similar to Plan 9. The difference between you and I, is that I just start working on the project and talk later; you talk first and then work when you can find enough people to minimize the work you have to do.
 
> 
> [1] ... and it's funny how, should glenda ever step outside the building,
> apparently everyone's paranoid that in all instances, she's going to suddenly
> become some sort of outlandish *nix/GNU freak-show the moment she steps
> out the door
> 
> 
> > Imagine running the Linux kernel and all of regular GNU, with all the
> > Plan 9's sweetness patched in.

My imagination may be a tad strange, but I see an obese chimera, currently a mixture of the gnu, penguin, and bunny. A step in the right direction isn't adding Plan 9 goodness to Linux, it's stripping the badness out; but that’s an argument best suited for Glendix people.

> But combining GNU and Linux with Plan 9 is not at all what I'm interested in.

Good.

> > Eventually, it would make the Plan 9's tools cooler by competition and
> > have them used ahead of the GNU alternatives... reduce bloat over time
> > by eliminating existing bloated projects (gcc?) which would eventually
> > be deemed out-of-fashion...
> >
> 
> Personally, I think carefully identifying, then porting/forking just a few,
> _select_ pieces of software from the *nix space, then maintained natively
> in an alternative Plan 9 based distribution, is a more interesting and direct
> route.
> 
> Unfortunately - that means noisy discussion and collaboration amongst
> people from a variety perspectives and skillsets/experience. Which is
> anathema to 9fans lone-ranger aesthetics.

Not at all an anathema, I understand what you're suggesting completely. I just feel it's foolish and you haven't proved me wrong yet.

> > but seriously, that's sooo awkward... same as trying to have Plan 9 do
> > stuff people from the Muggle world want...
> >
> 
> This again shows the strange misconception I keep seeing repeated here
> on this list:
> 
> The notion that the world is somehow bridled with people who hope to
> somehow... transmogrify Plan 9 into Linux... and that an arena of
> Plan9/Linux hybrids is the only other imaginable place that Plan 9 could
> possibly end up.

I would like to keep Plan 9 from going down the same road UNIX went down. Now one could argue that many of us are too much against that change, but so far Plan 9 has had everything needed and is still sane.

There's never been a reason people couldn't create forks or derivatives, just because we don't "like change", doesn't mean a separate code base couldn't be changed.

> It's a weird phenomenon - but it appears to be an ingrained reflex of the
> 9fans ethos.

Ethos (ἦθος) is Greek for the accustomed place; you may have meant ethikos (ἠθικός).

The way many of us treat Plan 9, is paternal. We don't want to see our baby gluttonizing on any code base she can get her hands on and we don't want her shooting up the drug that is the FSF. But we are in this amazing age where cloning is possible, so create a 'clone' and do what you please.

> 
> Cheers