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From: "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101@fjrhome.net>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] building blocks speaking 9p
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 07:14:43 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <0dcffcf1-371b-efd8-b0cf-4236af7f9185@fjrhome.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <a20edef9-bde2-e0c7-3a69-7f14f6ce3120@fjrhome.net>

Evidently there are two major standards:

CDC, an official USB standard - specifications here: 
https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/CDC_EEM10.pdf

RNDIS, a proprietary Microsoft protocol that Linux also provides drivers 
for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNDIS


The man page for usb/ether on plan9 indicates that CDC support is 
already there but has not been tested; it may be that a good starting 
point is in place and getting this tested would provide the required 
support on the host side of things?


On 1/29/22 6:56 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
> Apparently Linux includes drivers for tunneling IP over a USB 
> connection (possibly to support mobile phones?  not sure...)
>
> Making host drivers compatible with these (if not already available) 
> to share an IP stack and creating the equivalent device-side support 
> for the "blocks" would allow 9P to be tunneled not only from these 
> devices but also from other existing solutions in a wider variety of 
> ways, also making it easier to connect those devices to Linux as there 
> are ways to talk 9P from there.
>
> That may open up some additional flexibility?
>
>
> On 1/29/22 4:16 AM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>> I've been working on something along those lines for IoT management
>> and networking. Here's my laundry list of architectural and
>> implementation pieces:
>>
>> 1. authentication: (a) tie devices to owner/user (b) authenticate
>> users against third parties (via OIDC/SAML2, etc), (c) let the
>> authenticated user provide the credentials to authenticate and use
>> their devices via a namespace that follows an established convention
>> (e.g. /joe/iot/0/secret).
>> 2. device and capability discovery is a bootstrapping process,
>> starting with a namespace that describes the availability of devices
>> and features (analogous to '#c/drivers')
>> 3. namespace to discover how to present the data from a particular
>> source (e.g. a steam gauge widget would need to understand the
>> namespace exported by a pressure sensor)
>> 4. 9p libraries including fan-in, fan-out capability (i.e. mount,
>> 9pserve) for FreeRTOS, Mbed OS,  ThreadX, Zephyr
>> 5. libraries to localize user↔device 9p traffic, while keeping
>> authentication centralized (e.g. how @tailscale works)
>>
>> Initially IoT's would 9p-enable the SPI, I²C, etc. sensors and
>> actuators, until standards and conventions are established.
>>
>> For hardware, targeting things like SAMD21 boards seem more
>> appropriate; they're cheap (e.g. Seeed XIAO). Even things like Nordic
>> nRF52840 boards are below $10 and include the hardware to establish
>> root-of-trust.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 2:58 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>>> The idea:
>>> - make it very easy to create hardware gadgets by
>>>    providing a firmware/hardware building block that
>>>    talks 9p on the host interface side & interfaces
>>>    with device specific hardware.
>>>
>>> - use a "universal" 9p driver on the host side that
>>>    allows access to any such 9p device even from a shell.
>>>
>>> - provide a standard way to find out device capabilities.
>>>
>>> - together they provide a plug-and-play setup.
>>>
>>> Example: connect an LED and a current sensor to this
>>> 9p device, other necessary hardware, add a few config
>>> bits and plug this device kn]]into a host. Now you should
>>> be able to turn on/off the light or sense its state.
>>>
>>> Similarly you should be able to control a stepper motor
>>> servo, cameras, microphones, other actuators, sensors,
>>> IO etc. Eventually you should be able to snap together
>>> enough of these components to build larger assemblies
>>> such as a 3D printer.
>>>
>>> Another example: a "hub" to multiplex such downstream
>>> devices and make them available to a host.
>>>
>>> This will probably have to ride on USB first. A verilog
>>> implementation would be useful in an FPGA!
>>>
>>> Would this be a useful component? If such a thing were
>>> available, what would you want to build with it?
>>>
>>> Do you think 9p is the right protocol for this?
>>>
>>> Ideally
>>> - connect anything to anything
>>> - authenticated connections
>>> - drive the device through a shell script
>>> - no new low level drivers
>>> - self-identifying devices with help and command syntax
>>> - signicantly eases the task of creating new h/w devices.
>> ------------------------------------------
>> 9fans: 9fans
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>> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M79ef31466316e414d50336d2
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  reply	other threads:[~2022-01-29 12:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-01-27 22:57 Bakul Shah
2022-01-28  2:55 ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2022-01-28  3:31 ` Lucio De Re
2022-01-28  5:16   ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-28 10:16     ` Lucio De Re
2022-01-28 19:01       ` Charles Forsyth
2022-01-28 21:26         ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-28 21:37           ` Eli Cohen
2022-01-28 20:54       ` Tony Mendoza
2022-01-28 20:59       ` Tony Mendoza
2022-01-28 21:03         ` ori
2022-01-28 21:07           ` Tony Mendoza
2022-01-28 21:06         ` Eli Cohen
2022-01-28 21:16           ` Tony Mendoza
2022-01-28 21:27             ` Eli Cohen
2022-01-28 21:33               ` david
2022-01-28 21:46                 ` Tony Mendoza
2022-01-28 22:23                   ` David Boddie
2022-01-29  1:04                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-29  2:08                   ` David Boddie
2022-01-29  3:36                     ` Tony Mendoza
2022-01-29 18:03                     ` David Boddie
2022-01-29  2:32           ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2022-01-29 20:04             ` [9fans] aiju boards Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-28 19:32   ` [9fans] building blocks speaking 9p Kent R. Spillner
2022-01-28  4:54 ` ori
2022-01-28 20:55 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-29  9:16 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2022-01-29 11:56   ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2022-01-29 12:14     ` Frank D. Engel, Jr. [this message]
2022-01-29 12:30       ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2022-01-29 13:24         ` cinap_lenrek
2022-02-15  3:07 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-29 20:53 Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)

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