* [9fans] Question about Plan9 project @ 2009-07-18 15:10 Adriano Verardo 2009-07-18 16:18 ` Skip Tavakkolian ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Adriano Verardo @ 2009-07-18 15:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Hi all, As a professional user I think that Plan9 could be better than *nix for a large class of industrial - not time critical - applications but in Italy nobody use it, except of no more than a dozen of fans. The University doesn't know it at all. Of course, this is what I see. I would be happy if the picture were different. Speaking with my clients I see that almost all appreciate Plan9. But, even if some of them defined it "fascinating", the common sense is that, without guarantees about its longevity, it could be a wrong choice. How can I reply to this objection ? Reading the thread about plan9.bell-lab.com I understand that Bell Labs are no more directly committed in the project. Is it correct ? Adriano ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 15:10 [9fans] Question about Plan9 project Adriano Verardo @ 2009-07-18 16:18 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2009-07-18 16:25 ` Anthony Sorace ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2009-07-18 16:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > without > guarantees about > its longevity, it could be a wrong choice. > > How can I reply to this objection ? i think for most companies the issues are (a) lack of people with skills to build and maintain plan9 systems and (b) most IT departments are used to -- and seek -- point solutions that solve specific problems and have easy management interfaces. in my opinion the easiest way to sell an enterprise solution is to sell it as a hardware component; it's doubly true of systems that take advantage of good technologies that IT has not heard of (yet). -Skip ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 15:10 [9fans] Question about Plan9 project Adriano Verardo 2009-07-18 16:18 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2009-07-18 16:25 ` Anthony Sorace 2009-07-18 16:59 ` Uriel 2009-07-18 20:40 ` Adriano Verardo 2009-07-18 16:39 ` erik quanstrom 2009-07-18 18:35 ` dorin bumbu 3 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Anthony Sorace @ 2009-07-18 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Plan 9 is an open source project; as such, you get at least the same baseline "guarantees" about its longevity as every open source project enjoys: as long as someone's interested, work can continue. there are still Bell Labs staff who work on Plan 9, although i don't believe they're working on it for its own sake (at least not officially). i don't believe ALU has made any sort of corporate commitment to the OS, that's true. the "longevity" of any open source OS is based on the community surrounding it; this is as true for Plan 9 as it is for Linux and most of the BSDs (and various other things). our community is way smaller than those, but my sense is we're stronger in many ways than we've been for most of the OS's life (we've got less Bell Labs involvement than we did for the first half, but a broader range of contributors). Plan 9 ships in at least one commercial product, which wasn't true for most of its life (i can only think of those 2e-based video systems from earlier; anyone else?), and is used in some really large research projects by people outside the Labs. i, at least, would be interested to know more about what the specific concerns are. that is, is it about availability, future evolution, commercial support, or something else? anthony ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 16:25 ` Anthony Sorace @ 2009-07-18 16:59 ` Uriel 2009-07-18 17:59 ` ron minnich 2009-07-18 20:40 ` Adriano Verardo 1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-07-18 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Anthony Sorace<anothy@gmail.com> wrote: > Plan 9 is an open source project The Plan 9 code base (at least the released parts of it) is open source. Plan 9 is *not* an open source project, it can hardly be called a project even: There is no release management, there is no development process, there is no way to know what anyone is working on, no way to have any idea of what changes and features to expect in the future or when, or when any given bug might be fixed, or even a bug database for that matter, nor a way to know what changes have been made or why (other than computing your own diffs based on past snapshots). So you are on your own, you can take the code (while the site happens to be up, or from a mirror), do whatever you like with it, but that is all there is and all anyone can count on. uriel >; as such, you get at least > the same baseline "guarantees" about its longevity as every > open source project enjoys: as long as someone's interested, > work can continue. > > there are still Bell Labs staff who work on Plan 9, although i > don't believe they're working on it for its own sake (at least > not officially). i don't believe ALU has made any sort of > corporate commitment to the OS, that's true. > > the "longevity" of any open source OS is based on the > community surrounding it; this is as true for Plan 9 as it is > for Linux and most of the BSDs (and various other things). > our community is way smaller than those, but my sense is > we're stronger in many ways than we've been for most of > the OS's life (we've got less Bell Labs involvement than we > did for the first half, but a broader range of contributors). > Plan 9 ships in at least one commercial product, which > wasn't true for most of its life (i can only think of those > 2e-based video systems from earlier; anyone else?), and is > used in some really large research projects by people > outside the Labs. > > i, at least, would be interested to know more about what > the specific concerns are. that is, is it about availability, > future evolution, commercial support, or something else? > anthony > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 16:59 ` Uriel @ 2009-07-18 17:59 ` ron minnich 2009-07-18 19:29 ` Eric Van Hensbergen ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-07-18 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > Plan 9 is *not* an open source project, it can hardly be called a > project even: There is no release management, there is no development > process, there is no way to know what anyone is working on, no way to > have any idea of what changes and features to expect in the future or > when, or when any given bug might be fixed, or even a bug database for > that matter, This is an interesting statement and should be revised. So let's correct it. Take that above text and add this, please: "That is visible to Uriel, or that will ever be visible to Uriel, or that Uriel has any possibility of influencing, given that Uriel has burned every last bridge he might have ever had with the Plan 9 developers to the ground.". > So you are on your own, you can take the code (while the site happens > to be up, or from a mirror), do whatever you like with it, but that is > all there is and all anyone can count on. So, let's revise this one too.. "I, Uriel, taking up Noah Evans offer, will be forking the code base and releasing an OS called Plan-U. I will provide servers that resolve all the problems seen with the bell labs server, and I will take on the task, with my friends, of providing all the things I see lacking in the current setup. It's much easier to contribute a solution than complain, and I am not the type who gets perverse joy out of just complaining and yelling at people on a mailing list. That game is for losers. Rather, I wish to provide a constructive solution, and I know that after a few months people will ignore the bell labs site and flock to mine. It worked for openbsd, and it can work for Plan U. As part of this effort, I hereby unsubscribe from this list, and am starting a new one called ufans for my new OS release. Please join me in this important work. " There now, wouldn't that be much easier? You already run a bunch of servers; I think you could pull it off. And it might lower your blood pressure :-) You declined Noah's serious offer to take over sources; here's another chance! Go for ti! You should not assume it would not work. Ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 17:59 ` ron minnich @ 2009-07-18 19:29 ` Eric Van Hensbergen 2009-07-18 19:37 ` Corey 2009-07-18 23:21 ` Corey 2009-07-20 12:16 ` Iruata Souza 2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: Eric Van Hensbergen @ 2009-07-18 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Plan 9 is *not* an open source project > I once attended a talk where a statement was made about open source projects being defined by their ability to fork in non-destructive manners as a sort of evolutionary response. Plan 9's source code is available, and anyone that thinks they can do a better job is welcome to fork it, repackage the distribution, mirror it, support it, and so forth. People will naturally flock to better solutions. This is the very heart of open source. Conforming to Google's idea of open source, or the Linux Community's model, or the GNU religion is in no way essential to open source. What is essential is that the community works out what works best on its own and evolves through forking and merging and different approaches which work best at different times. Forks are already in place. Inferno is very much a fork of Plan 9, Octopus is a fork of Inferno. Brucee has his own fork (or perhaps forks?) of Inferno. p9p and 9vx are also forks after a fashion. These forks often contribute fixes and improvements back to respective parents, and some times they don't. The secret plan 9 super secret society fork is yet another evolution, actually primarily motivated by bitter, disruptive, and ultimately destructive community members. All things are valid, evolution only moves forward with action. We have our fork, we are proceeding with it as we best see fit -- that's our prerogative. Unhappy? Restless? Bored? Go forth and fork -- IMHO, this is a research operating system, its here to play with, learn and explore. If you aren't interested in those things, you'll be disappointed or worse. -eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 19:29 ` Eric Van Hensbergen @ 2009-07-18 19:37 ` Corey 2009-07-18 19:50 ` Eric Van Hensbergen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: Corey @ 2009-07-18 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Saturday 18 July 2009 12:29:29 Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: > The secret plan 9 super secret > society fork is yet another evolution, actually primarily motivated by > bitter, disruptive, and ultimately destructive community members. > Curiosity has just got the best of me. Can you shed a little more light on this super secret fork? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 19:37 ` Corey @ 2009-07-18 19:50 ` Eric Van Hensbergen 2009-07-18 20:01 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-07-18 20:11 ` Corey 0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Eric Van Hensbergen @ 2009-07-18 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: corey, Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Corey<corey@bitworthy.net> wrote: > On Saturday 18 July 2009 12:29:29 Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: >> The secret plan 9 super secret >> society fork is yet another evolution, actually primarily motivated by >> bitter, disruptive, and ultimately destructive community members. >> > > Curiosity has just got the best of me. > > Can you shed a little more light on this super secret fork? > No. :) -eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 19:50 ` Eric Van Hensbergen @ 2009-07-18 20:01 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-07-18 20:11 ` Corey 1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: J.R. Mauro @ 2009-07-18 20:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen<ericvh@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Corey<corey@bitworthy.net> wrote: >> On Saturday 18 July 2009 12:29:29 Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: >>> The secret plan 9 super secret >>> society fork is yet another evolution, actually primarily motivated by >>> bitter, disruptive, and ultimately destructive community members. >>> >> >> Curiosity has just got the best of me. >> >> Can you shed a little more light on this super secret fork? >> > > No. > > :) > -eric > > Well, I'm sure you can, but if you told us, you'd have to kill us. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 19:50 ` Eric Van Hensbergen 2009-07-18 20:01 ` J.R. Mauro @ 2009-07-18 20:11 ` Corey 1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Corey @ 2009-07-18 20:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Saturday 18 July 2009 12:50:39 Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Corey<corey@bitworthy.net> wrote: > > On Saturday 18 July 2009 12:29:29 Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: > >> The secret plan 9 super secret > >> society fork is yet another evolution, actually primarily motivated by > >> bitter, disruptive, and ultimately destructive community members. > > > > Curiosity has just got the best of me. > > > > Can you shed a little more light on this super secret fork? > > No. > > :) > Ok - well at any rate, it is now publicly known that there is at least one 'super secret' Plan 9 fork in process. "Paranoia is a disease unto itself, and may I add, the person... standing next to you... may not be who they appear to be - so take precaution." - Primus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 17:59 ` ron minnich 2009-07-18 19:29 ` Eric Van Hensbergen @ 2009-07-18 23:21 ` Corey 2009-07-20 12:16 ` Iruata Souza 2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Corey @ 2009-07-18 23:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Saturday 18 July 2009 10:59:20 ron minnich wrote: > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: <snip> > > So you are on your own, you can take the code (while the site happens > > to be up, or from a mirror), do whatever you like with it, but that is > > all there is and all anyone can count on. > > So, let's revise this one too.. > > "I, Uriel, taking up Noah Evans offer, will be forking the code base > and releasing an OS called Plan-U. I will provide servers that resolve > all the problems seen with the bell labs server, and I will take on > the task, with my friends, of providing all the things I see lacking > in the current setup." > I sent Uriel a message off-list asking him about this, and he preferred to answer them in public. I basically volunteered to help him out, were he to embark on the effort, because I am also interested in seeing a version of Plan 9 with a less... sterile, clean-room environment; and into an environment that's a little more open to experimental change which may fall outside the current sensibilities and needs of the prevailing primary movers and shakers of the currently existing Plan 9 community; and something perhaps a bit more closer to a more open and accessible, community driven development model. This is not to fault Plan 9 as it exists now, but simply to scratch a different itch than what appears to be in the fore-front of the current 'official' Plan 9 distribution. Seems like it's something that's been needed for awhile in order to help prevent "ideological" schisms; but apparently no one's tried it yet? I'm much too new here to have any desire whatsoever to contribute to noise or flames, I respect everyone's positions and opinions equally even where they differ from my own. Not too mention I'm very new to Plan 9, so I lack experience. Cheers ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 17:59 ` ron minnich 2009-07-18 19:29 ` Eric Van Hensbergen 2009-07-18 23:21 ` Corey @ 2009-07-20 12:16 ` Iruata Souza 2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-07-20 12:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs it is so difficult to 'fork' the project that it took me less than 10 minutes to turn the kernel sources into a hg repository. On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 2:59 PM, ron minnich<rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Plan 9 is *not* an open source project, it can hardly be called a >> project even: There is no release management, there is no development >> process, there is no way to know what anyone is working on, no way to >> have any idea of what changes and features to expect in the future or >> when, or when any given bug might be fixed, or even a bug database for >> that matter, > > > This is an interesting statement and should be revised. So let's correct it. > > Take that above text and add this, please: > "That is visible to Uriel, or that will ever be visible to Uriel, or > that Uriel has any possibility of influencing, given that Uriel has > burned every last bridge he might have ever had with the Plan 9 > developers to the ground.". > >> So you are on your own, you can take the code (while the site happens >> to be up, or from a mirror), do whatever you like with it, but that is >> all there is and all anyone can count on. > > So, let's revise this one too.. > > "I, Uriel, taking up Noah Evans offer, will be forking the code base > and releasing an OS called Plan-U. I will provide servers that resolve > all the problems seen with the bell labs server, and I will take on > the task, with my friends, of providing all the things I see lacking > in the current setup. It's much easier to contribute a solution than > complain, and I am not the type who gets perverse joy out of just > complaining and yelling at people on a mailing list. That game is for > losers. Rather, I wish to provide a constructive solution, and I know > that after a few months people will ignore the bell labs site and > flock to mine. It worked for openbsd, and it can work for Plan U. As > part of this effort, I hereby unsubscribe from this list, and am > starting a new one called ufans for my new OS release. Please join me > in this important work. " > > There now, wouldn't that be much easier? You already run a bunch of > servers; I think you could pull it off. And it might lower your blood > pressure :-) > > You declined Noah's serious offer to take over sources; here's another > chance! Go for ti! You should not assume it would not work. > > Ron > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 16:25 ` Anthony Sorace 2009-07-18 16:59 ` Uriel @ 2009-07-18 20:40 ` Adriano Verardo 2009-07-19 12:38 ` Ethan Grammatikidis 1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: Adriano Verardo @ 2009-07-18 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Anthony Sorace wrote: > i, at least, would be interested to know more about what > the specific concerns are. that is, is it about availability, > future evolution, commercial support, or something else? > anthony > Mainly availability. In the past I had some difficulties when I suggested to use FreeBSD instead of Linux, Unix instead of VMS etc etc in a production environments, because a largely used product is considered more reliable. From this point of view, of course. Support is also an issue The usual questions are about bug fixes and so on. But these are not problems because it's quite easy to prove that the support is good, the system is stable etc etc. Instead, can happen that some hardware supported by Plan9 is not supplied by italian reseller and vice versa. This can (sometimes) be a problem for the end user. Unbelievable but true, a driver (or a patch to a driver or whatever else) done by an italian is not considered as good as the stuff from the original site. It is a psychological problem I have often to face with. adriano ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 20:40 ` Adriano Verardo @ 2009-07-19 12:38 ` Ethan Grammatikidis 0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Ethan Grammatikidis @ 2009-07-19 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:40:14 +0200 Adriano Verardo <a.verardo@tecmav.com> wrote: > Unbelievable but true, a driver (or a patch to a driver or whatever > else) done by an > italian is not considered as good as the stuff from the original site. > It is a psychological problem I have often to face with. Open-source newbies often display the same problem, & not just Italians at all. ;) It's a widely-promoted attitude that stuff which does not come from The Official Source can't be right. There are some facts behind the view, but overall it's a bad leap of logic. What it is is good for established business. -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 15:10 [9fans] Question about Plan9 project Adriano Verardo 2009-07-18 16:18 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2009-07-18 16:25 ` Anthony Sorace @ 2009-07-18 16:39 ` erik quanstrom 2009-07-18 18:35 ` dorin bumbu 3 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-07-18 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > As a professional user I think that Plan9 could be better than *nix for a > large class of industrial - not time critical - applications but in > Italy nobody use it, except of no more than a dozen of fans. The University doesn't > know it at all. Of course, this is what I see. I would be happy if the picture were > different. > > Speaking with my clients I see that almost all appreciate Plan9. But, > even if some of them defined it "fascinating", the common sense is that, without > guarantees about its longevity, it could be a wrong choice. > > How can I reply to this objection ? coraid sells storage appliances based on plan 9 and employs people specficly to work on plan 9. there's also quite a bit of work that goes on at bell labs with the blue gene project. and i'm quite sure there are other serious applications that i'm not as aware of. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 15:10 [9fans] Question about Plan9 project Adriano Verardo ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2009-07-18 16:39 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-07-18 18:35 ` dorin bumbu 2009-07-18 18:49 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-07-18 19:09 ` Adriano Verardo 3 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: dorin bumbu @ 2009-07-18 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs There are thousands of devices shipped with Microsoft Windows CE prior to version 4 (.NET). For these devices MS never offered patches even if these versions had lots of bugs, nor even standard C libraries (thank God there is wcecompat). And there are lot of projects that reached 10+ years (with workarounds, of course), and still in production. I don't think the risk of using Plan 9 is greather than the risk assumend by those who developed with WCE prior to 4. Dorin On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Adriano Verardo<a.verardo@tecmav.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > As a professional user I think that Plan9 could be better than *nix for a > large class of industrial - not time critical - applications but in Italy > nobody > use it, except of no more than a dozen of fans. The University doesn't know > it at all. > Of course, this is what I see. I would be happy if the picture were > different. > > Speaking with my clients I see that almost all appreciate Plan9. But, even > if some > of them defined it "fascinating", the common sense is that, without > guarantees about > its longevity, it could be a wrong choice. > > How can I reply to this objection ? > > Reading the thread about plan9.bell-lab.com I understand that Bell Labs > are no more directly committed in the project. Is it correct ? > > Adriano > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 18:35 ` dorin bumbu @ 2009-07-18 18:49 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-07-18 19:09 ` Adriano Verardo 1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: J.R. Mauro @ 2009-07-18 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 2:35 PM, dorin bumbu<bumbudorin@gmail.com> wrote: > There are thousands of devices shipped with Microsoft Windows CE prior > to version 4 (.NET). For these devices MS never offered patches even > if these versions had lots of bugs, nor even standard C libraries > (thank God there is wcecompat). And there are lot of projects that > reached 10+ years (with workarounds, of course), and still in > production. I don't think the risk of using Plan 9 is greather than > the risk assumend by those who developed with WCE prior to 4. I was going to say something to that effect -- Plan 9 is by and large pretty stable, and on the same hardware, even no updates would leave you with a fairly reliable system. > > Dorin > > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Adriano Verardo<a.verardo@tecmav.com> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As a professional user I think that Plan9 could be better than *nix for a >> large class of industrial - not time critical - applications but in Italy >> nobody >> use it, except of no more than a dozen of fans. The University doesn't know >> it at all. >> Of course, this is what I see. I would be happy if the picture were >> different. >> >> Speaking with my clients I see that almost all appreciate Plan9. But, even >> if some >> of them defined it "fascinating", the common sense is that, without >> guarantees about >> its longevity, it could be a wrong choice. >> >> How can I reply to this objection ? >> >> Reading the thread about plan9.bell-lab.com I understand that Bell Labs >> are no more directly committed in the project. Is it correct ? >> >> Adriano >> >> > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Question about Plan9 project 2009-07-18 18:35 ` dorin bumbu 2009-07-18 18:49 ` J.R. Mauro @ 2009-07-18 19:09 ` Adriano Verardo 1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Adriano Verardo @ 2009-07-18 19:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs dorin bumbu wrote: > There are thousands of devices shipped with Microsoft Windows CE prior > to version 4 (.NET). For these devices MS never offered patches even > if these versions had lots of bugs, nor even standard C libraries > (thank God there is wcecompat). And there are lot of projects that > reached 10+ years (with workarounds, of course), and still in > production. I don't think the risk of using Plan 9 is greather than > the risk assumend by those who developed with WCE prior to 4. > > I absolutely agree. In fact I use whatever I consider good without taking into account whether or not it is largely used. The problem arise when I must share the decision with clients who are not skilled enough to distinguish among market share and real quality. adriano ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-07-20 12:16 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 18+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-07-18 15:10 [9fans] Question about Plan9 project Adriano Verardo 2009-07-18 16:18 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2009-07-18 16:25 ` Anthony Sorace 2009-07-18 16:59 ` Uriel 2009-07-18 17:59 ` ron minnich 2009-07-18 19:29 ` Eric Van Hensbergen 2009-07-18 19:37 ` Corey 2009-07-18 19:50 ` Eric Van Hensbergen 2009-07-18 20:01 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-07-18 20:11 ` Corey 2009-07-18 23:21 ` Corey 2009-07-20 12:16 ` Iruata Souza 2009-07-18 20:40 ` Adriano Verardo 2009-07-19 12:38 ` Ethan Grammatikidis 2009-07-18 16:39 ` erik quanstrom 2009-07-18 18:35 ` dorin bumbu 2009-07-18 18:49 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-07-18 19:09 ` Adriano Verardo
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