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From: raingloom <raingloom@riseup.net>
To: Giacomo Tesio <giacomo@tesio.it>
Cc: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>,
	mycroftiv 9gridchan <mycroftiv@sphericalharmony.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 03:56:09 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20220130035609.704bffbe@riseup.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CDA3E7B2-F10A-43F3-AF2F-2E25472193BE@tesio.it>

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:24:36 +0000
Giacomo Tesio <giacomo@tesio.it> wrote:

> Hi raingloom, mycroftiv and 9fans,
> 
> As you might know I'm pretty heretic in Plan 9 (as much that my for
> is called Jehanne) and I'm also very sympathetic with SJW victims,
> mostly because SJW basically try to impose worldwide a US-workplace
> ethos that is compatible with US-styled corporate management.
> 
> More often than not, they are in good faith.
> But ultimately they become tools of US colonialism, spreading their
> cultural hegemony. The trick is basically: convince everybody that
> they have your problems (eg, systemic racism, lgtqmi+ phobics, gender
> bias and so on) so that they will accept your corporate-friendly
> solutions (eg CoCs...)
> 
> In Europe being inclusive doesn't mean to be hypocrital, and that's
> why I'd really like to know what "sin" Nemo did to cause all this
> debate.
> 
> More often than not, SJW raise their swords after fictional issues
> that amount to nothing and could be basically settled with a honest
> conversation between openminded adults.
> 
> More often than not, what a SJW consider outragous and evil, is said
> in a completely different cultural context and environment, so much
> that they simply can't (or don't care to) interpret it as intended
> and understood in that context.
> 
> Finally, more often than not, SJW inclusiveness stops before weird
> people, (like hackers often are) that do NOT belong to the
> demographic groups that populate US's remorse, like blacks, women and
> so on.
> 
> Not to mention that often they are plain blind with the harm their
> corporations cause worldwide (think of the Facebook's SJW that
> obtained the removal of RMS from GCC Steering Committee).
> 
> On January 27, 2022 4:35:16 AM UTC, raingloom <raingloom@riseup.net>
> wrote:
> > 
> > Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that
> > helps no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software
> > and count as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to
> > users) is an inherently political question. Ignoring that just
> > means that you prefer the status quo.  
> 
> I totally agree with this. [1]
> 
> Since neolithic, technology is a prosecution of politics by other
> means.
> 
> I agree so much that all my free software projects include a
> POLITICS.txt that explicitly declares the political goals they have.
> 
> 
> However, thanks God, not all politics is based on cancel culture, yet.
> Hackers do not cancel, we create.
> 
> If you feel the need to cancel Nemo's great influence over Plan 9,
> I'm not interested.
> 
> If you want to update his great books, eg to describe 9front, I'd
> really like to help. But I'd love to work WITH Nemo, not against him.
> 
> I might disagree with Nemo's view on general politics (I really do
> not know his takes on anything) but I think I might well work with
> him on a well defined political goal (say "document 9front internals
> so that anybody can more easily hack it").
> 
> Or maybe he doesn't like 9front and prefer to stick to
> plan9foundation's code, in which case I would't partecipate because I
> can't trust several of the founders [2].
> 
> 
> Sure, as you say, deciding who your project serves and how is a
> political choice. But it has nothing to do with who you cancel.
> 
> 
> Technology is Politics.
> 
> But Politics, to me, is to build bridges, not walls.
> Cancelling Nemo is not a political achievement.
> 
> Building on the great work he donated to this community, is.
> 
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
> 
> 
> Giacomo
> 
> [1] http://www.tesio.it/2019/06/03/what-is-informatics.html
> 
> [2]
> http://www.tesio.it/2018/02/14/what-i-wish-i-knew-before-contributing-to-open-source.html

I'll just note that you addressed this to me and mycroftiv instead of
that guy who said that trans people must hide their identity on the
list. And I'm not from the US.

I'm offering help in reaching out to new demographics who currently do
not feel welcome in 9fans circles. That is the opposite of exclusion. I
actually don't care much about whatever nemo did or said, I just want
to see Plan 9 getting better docs and becoming more accessible to
people who aren't unix greybeards.
Feel free to ignore my rather milquetoast political reasoning behind my
motivation for helping.

If my help is not wanted, I have other libre projects to contribute to.

ps.: Nice work on Jehanne btw, I floated the GCC port announcement by
the Guix mailing list. Would be cool to see a package/config manager
inspired by it running on Plan 9 or Jehanne.

------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-Mf67c7f5ec8644b914a064d57
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  reply	other threads:[~2022-01-30  2:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-01-24 11:12 mycroftiv 9gridchan
2022-01-24 12:02 ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-24 12:13   ` hiro
2022-01-24 12:38     ` Duke Normandin
2022-01-24 14:42       ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2022-01-24 16:43         ` Duke Normandin
2022-01-24 17:40       ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
2022-01-24 17:49         ` Duke Normandin
2022-01-24 17:53           ` Pablo Tesari
2022-01-24 17:56             ` Clout Tolstoy
2022-01-24 18:06               ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2022-01-24 18:06                 ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2022-01-24 17:55         ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
2022-01-24 18:02           ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
2022-01-24 18:07             ` Jeremy Jackins
2022-01-24 18:18               ` Lucas Francesco
2022-01-24 18:20             ` Keith Gibbs
2022-01-24 18:33               ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
2022-01-24 18:46                 ` Eli Cohen
2022-01-24 18:47                 ` Keith Gibbs
2022-01-24 12:45 ` Steve Simon
2022-01-24 12:49   ` Federico Benavento
2022-01-24 12:56     ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-24 18:18 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy adr
2022-01-24 23:48   ` hiro
2022-01-25  0:30     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
2022-01-25  0:57       ` hiro
2022-01-25  4:31         ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-25  5:36     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy Lucio De Re
2022-01-25  7:23       ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
2022-01-25  7:26         ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-25  7:32         ` Keith Gibbs
2022-01-25  7:38           ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-25  8:58         ` hiro
2022-01-25 12:26           ` Wes Kussmaul
2022-01-25 15:39             ` Clout Tolstoy
2022-01-25 18:17               ` hiro
2022-01-25 19:44                 ` Clout Tolstoy
2022-01-25 20:26                   ` [9fans] War And Peace Wes Kussmaul
2022-01-28 21:18         ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation: adr
2022-01-28 21:37           ` hiro
2022-01-24 20:58 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation Marshall Conover
2022-01-24 21:12   ` Russ Cox
2022-01-27  4:35 ` raingloom
2022-01-27 10:24   ` Giacomo Tesio
2022-01-30  2:56     ` raingloom [this message]
2022-01-27 16:11   ` ori
2022-01-27 22:45     ` hiro
2022-01-27 21:02   ` hiro
2022-01-27 21:43     ` Wes Kussmaul
2022-01-27 21:48     ` ori
2022-01-27 22:09     ` Giacomo Tesio

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