[9fans] An Observation

[9fans] An Observation

[Eric Van Hensbergen]

There are those that say too many cooks spoil the broth.

This isn't our problem.

Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting
to direct the cooks.

          -eric

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[ron minnich]

"And of course, with the birth of the artist came the inevitable
afterbirth - the critic." --Mel Brooks, History of the World Part I.

ron

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[erik quanstrom]

> Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting
> to direct the cooks.

except there are no cooks.

- erik

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Eric Van Hensbergen]

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:01 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
>> Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting
>> to direct the cooks.
>
> except there are no cooks.
>

There are a few cooks, but perhaps no chefs.  The chefs grew weary of
the critics a long time ago and now cook only for themselves.

       -eric

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Eris Discordia]

"Although I cannot lay an egg, I am a very good judge of omelettes."

They say George Bernard Shaw said it.

(No, I'm not arrogant enough to consider myself the egg, the omelette, the
cook, or the critic. I'm the hungry soul looking into the restaurant from
behind the glass walls.)

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[hiro]

why are you staying, all that time, when your cousin is chef and gets
a great award every other year and works in the restaurant just the
other side of the road?

> (No, I'm not arrogant enough to consider myself the egg, the omelette, the
> cook, or the critic. I'm the hungry soul looking into the restaurant from
> behind the glass walls.)

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Thorben Krueger]

because this kitchen has access to the better cooking utensils.

2008/11/14 hiro <23hiro@googlemail.com>:
> why are you staying, all that time, when your cousin is chef and gets
> a great award every other year and works in the restaurant just the
> other side of the road?
>
>> (No, I'm not arrogant enough to consider myself the egg, the omelette, the
>> cook, or the critic. I'm the hungry soul looking into the restaurant from
>> behind the glass walls.)
>
>

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[tlaronde]

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 10:38:01AM -0600, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:
> There are those that say too many cooks spoil the broth.
>
> This isn't our problem.
>
> Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting
> to direct the cooks.

And if, despite their sabotage, you happen to succeed, they will claim
that the recipe is theirs.
--
Thierry Laronde (Alceste) <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                 http://www.kergis.com/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Eris Discordia]

Ah! The Frenchman speaks.

--On Friday, November 14, 2008 6:22 PM +0100 tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 10:38:01AM -0600, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:
>> There are those that say too many cooks spoil the broth.
>>
>> This isn't our problem.
>>
>> Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting
>> to direct the cooks.
>
> And if, despite their sabotage, you happen to succeed, they will claim
> that the recipe is theirs.
> --
> Thierry Laronde (Alceste) <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
>                  http://www.kergis.com/
> Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
>

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Jack Johnson]

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are those that say too many cooks spoil the broth.
>
> This isn't our problem.
>
> Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting
> to direct the cooks.

Is it good or bad that we keep eating at the same restaurant, despite
the criticism?

-Jack

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[David Leimbach]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 524 bytes --]

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > There are those that say too many cooks spoil the broth.
> >
> > This isn't our problem.
> >
> > Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting
> > to direct the cooks.
>
> Is it good or bad that we keep eating at the same restaurant, despite
> the criticism?
>
> -Jack
>
> Dang, in a pinch I'll even eat at McDonalds...

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 873 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Jack Johnson]

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:46 AM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dang, in a pinch I'll even eat at McDonalds...

I think I booted McOS this morning....

-J

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Fernan Bolando]

There are a few customers waiting to be fed. There are others who
looks through the windows and menu occasionally to see if there is
anything that they want.

On 11/15/08, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:46 AM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dang, in a pinch I'll even eat at McDonalds...
>
> I think I booted McOS this morning....
>
> -J
>
>


--
http://www.fernski.com

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[john]

> There are a few customers waiting to be fed. There are others who
> looks through the windows and menu occasionally to see if there is
> anything that they want.
>

Then they demand to know why we don't have Big Macs, and tell us that
we'll never be able to compete with McDonalds while we insist on
serving steak and lobster.

John

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Andrew Simmons]

And then there are those who don't want to eat most of the dishes on
the menu on a regular basis, but wish they could learn to cook half as
well as that, and attempt to apply some of the cooking methods in
their own dishes.

2008/11/15 Fernan Bolando <fernanbolando@mailc.net>:
> There are a few customers waiting to be fed. There are others who
> looks through the windows and menu occasionally to see if there is
> anything that they want.
>

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[andrey mirtchovski]

and then there are those who eat too much :D

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Andrew Simmons]

2008/11/15 Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@gmail.com>:
> There are those that say too many cooks spoil the broth.
>

This has been bothering me ever since I was a lad (which I'm pretty
sure was well before Ron was born. (Nurse!  Turn me over!!  Time for
my medication!!!)

On the one hand, "Too many cooks spoil the broth." On the other hand,
"Many hands make light work."

So which is it?

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Michaelian Ennis]

Insert random in-applicable cooking allegory here.

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Robert Raschke]

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:11 AM, Andrew Simmons <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On the one hand, "Too many cooks spoil the broth." On the other hand,
> "Many hands make light work."

Cooks don't work, they give orders.

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Michaelian Ennis]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:18 AM, Robert Raschke <rtrlists@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:11 AM, Andrew Simmons <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On the one hand, "Too many cooks spoil the broth." On the other hand,
>> "Many hands make light work."
>
> Cooks don't work, they give orders.

If we are speaking of cooking. The cooks cook.  The Sous Chef cooks
and contributes to the menu.  The Executive Chef gives orders and
shakes hands with the customers.

Ian

Re: [9fans] An Observation

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:
> There are those that say too many cooks spoil the broth.
>
> This isn't our problem.
>
> Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting
> to direct the cooks.

Ok, since I happen to be on a soul searching expedition today -- I'll
bite.
And then, I promise to shut up.

To me, personally, the problem is not that we have too many cooks
or critics. The problems is much more closely related to the lack
of chefs (as was very aptly pointed out earlier in this thread).

Now, when I say that we lack chefs I don't really mean a benevolent
dictator who, with an iron fist, would move projects in this community
forward. I don't mind it, actually, but that's not what I'm personally
interested in a chef.

I need guidance.

In fact, at this point in my professional career, I would crawl over
the broken
glass to have the opportunity of being even a lowly precook for a
smart chef.

May be you guys over at the labs (all three of them) still have that,
but
I don't. Sun used to be the place where we had lots and lots of good
chefs and the quality of hallway conversation alone would put some
seminars to shame. But we lost it. Most of the chefs are gone, and those
who are staying are much more likely to talk about their 401k plans
that anything else.

I still remember how when I first got exposed to Plan9 and subscribed
to this
list I had a question. And I posted it. But not only did I get an answer
I had Dennis Ritchie himself commenting on my logic. It was a short
comment. But it helped more that a 1000+ FAQ. He didn't asked me
to show the code or implement anything, he simply wrote a paragraph
of text.

This was very common on this list back then. And I fear that we are
loosing
it. Sure, everybody's busy and we all have to deal with trolls, but if
this
list degenerates into a place for "how do I..." and "why doesn't it..."
questions then we have a problem. I have a problem, at least. Since
the last place where I can run ideas by friendly people who are usually
10 times smarter than I would cease to exist.

Does it always take a chef to be able to sustain that kind of a
conversion?
Surely not. Though it helps to be a chef in order to make or break
the idea with a single paragraph. Reagardless of your status, just try
not to spare commas. As in: when you say "I wasn't aware of anyone
looking
for this particular functionality" add a comma. Regarless of what
follows, be it ", but it sounds like a really nice idea" or ", on top
of that
this is the stupidest idea I have ever heard" -- it is bound to be
better
than: "We look forward to your server implementation(s)".

Thanks,
Roman.