[9fans] plan9dev@googlegroups.com

[9fans] plan9dev@googlegroups.com

[ericvh]

In an effort to combat the spam and whining that seems to have
permeated the comp.os.plan9 newgroup and 9fans mailing list, I've
created a new mailing list for Plan 9 developers on googlegroups.com.
This way, when something goes wrong with the list, we can blame Rob ;)

I created this list to:
a) see what Google's mailing list/groups stuff looked like
b) out of frustration with the 9fans mailing list and comp.os.plan9
newsgroup

The intent of this list is for people who are actually working on Plan
9 projects to be able to communicate. This is not an advocacy list,
nor is it a place to whine about incumbent operating systems or lack of
some functionality/application within Plan 9.

Hopefully, our good friends at Google will be better at
filtering/preventing the spam that seems to have infiltrated the 9fans
list and dominate the comp.os.plan9 newsgroup. If it does a better
job, we may want to think about migrating 9fans to it.

I've left the list as subscriber-only posting to help mitigate the spam
problem. I don't think we need to go to an invite-only system, but
maybe that will be the next step.

URL:   http://groups-beta.google.com/group/plan9dev
Email: plan9dev@googlegroups.com

----

Who the hell am I? I worked at the labs from 1996 till 2001, mostly on
Inferno, but also on Plan 9. I've been rather silent and inactive
lately, but have recently found a way to work on Plan 9 in the context
of my day job -- so hopefully I'll be a productive member of the
community once again.

I don't know if this list is a good idea or not, but I figured I'd give
it a try.

-eric

Re: [9fans] plan9dev@googlegroups.com

[Lucio De Re]

> The intent of this list is for people who are actually working on Plan
> 9 projects to be able to communicate. This is not an advocacy list,
> nor is it a place to whine about incumbent operating systems or lack of
> some functionality/application within Plan 9.

I like the idea, but in my opinion the scope ought to be as carefully
defined as possible to be worth subscribing in addition or
alternatively to 9fans.  Nothing like some clear rules to
self-moderate by ;-)

++L

Re: [9fans] plan9dev@googlegroups.com

[Eric Van Hensbergen]

Lucio De Re wrote:

>>The intent of this list is for people who are actually working on Plan
>>9 projects to be able to communicate. This is not an advocacy list,
>>nor is it a place to whine about incumbent operating systems or lack of
>>some functionality/application within Plan 9.
>>
>>
>
>I like the idea, but in my opinion the scope ought to be as carefully
>defined as possible to be worth subscribing in addition or
>alternatively to 9fans.  Nothing like some clear rules to
>self-moderate by ;-)
>
>++L
>
>
I'd really prefer it to be a development list - a place to talk about
what people are working on within Plan 9.  Whereas 9fans is more of a
user/advocacy list - where people ask questions about using existing
functionality, hardware support, installing a cpu server for the first
time, etc.

9dev would be more for discussing where we want to take the technology
--   What are the issues going to 64-bit, are there ways to tie Plan 9
functionality in better with incumbant OSs (ala plan9ports), etc.  With
only jmk being left in Murray Hill, the community really needs to step
up and start working towards the future, or stuff is going to just fade
away (no doubt to be reinvented later on).

The difference (for me), is that I only scan 9fans because the bulk of
it really doesn't interest me  -- and as a result, I miss some of the
important bits about what people are actually doing with the technology.

I know the prevailing sentiment is that Plan 9 is dead, and has been for
some time -- but I think there is still some hope to rally the troops
and work towards a community released "5th edition".  I also think its
well worth the community's time to improve/expand Russ' plan9ports stuff.

So, we'll see.  plan9dev is a list for people who actually want to/(have
time to) write code.  It is a place to post what people are doing
instead of wish-lists for what people should do.

    -eric

Re: [9fans] plan9dev@googlegroups.com

[Jon Snader]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 08:18:06AM -0500, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:
> I'd really prefer it to be a development list - a place to talk about
> what people are working on within Plan 9.  Whereas 9fans is more of a
> user/advocacy list - where people ask questions about using existing
> functionality, hardware support, installing a cpu server for the first
> time, etc.
>

I'd prefer not to have this Balkanization.  I'm probably what
you'd refer to as a non-serious user because I don't work on Plan
9 development, and don't use it in my day to day work.  Still,
I'm interested in all aspects of Plan 9, and one of the things
that I enjoy the most is the development discussions.  I could,
of course, subscribe to the development list too, but I'm already
subscribed to too many lists.

If the problem is spam, let's fix that problem, perhaps by going
subscriber only for posting.  Some say this puts a burden on the
casual reader, but I never found it too much effort to subscribe
first.  With one or two exceptions, we don't get too many flamers
or OT posts, so I'm willing to live with that to keep from having
to go to two places to get my Plan 9 fix.

jcs

Re: [9fans] plan9dev@googlegroups.com

[Justin Herald]

I have just started learning Plan 9 for research. I personally like the
way the lists are set up right now, but spam does seem to be a big
problem. What J. Snader proposed seems very viable.

On Jul 26, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Jon Snader wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 08:18:06AM -0500, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:
>> I'd really prefer it to be a development list - a place to talk about
>> what people are working on within Plan 9.  Whereas 9fans is more of a
>> user/advocacy list - where people ask questions about using existing
>> functionality, hardware support, installing a cpu server for the first
>> time, etc.
>>
>
> I'd prefer not to have this Balkanization.  I'm probably what
> you'd refer to as a non-serious user because I don't work on Plan
> 9 development, and don't use it in my day to day work.  Still,
> I'm interested in all aspects of Plan 9, and one of the things
> that I enjoy the most is the development discussions.  I could,
> of course, subscribe to the development list too, but I'm already
> subscribed to too many lists.
>
> If the problem is spam, let's fix that problem, perhaps by going
> subscriber only for posting.  Some say this puts a burden on the
> casual reader, but I never found it too much effort to subscribe
> first.  With one or two exceptions, we don't get too many flamers
> or OT posts, so I'm willing to live with that to keep from having
> to go to two places to get my Plan 9 fix.
>
> jcs
>

Re: [9fans] plan9dev@googlegroups.com

[Steve Simon]

> only jmk being left in Murray Hill, ...

This makes me very sad, however I shall do all I can to keep plan9
alive; it's a matter of principal.

There is too much to learn, so one must chose what to study, and I
find time spent learing, and using Java, MSVC, GtK etc. feels wasted.
Plan9 is worthy of beign learnt and used.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] plan9dev@googlegroups.com

[Roman Shaposhnick]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 10:17:08PM +0100, Steve Simon wrote:
> > only jmk being left in Murray Hill, ...
>
> This makes me very sad, however I shall do all I can to keep plan9
> alive; it's a matter of principal.

  I tend to agree. But. There's also a matter of gatekeepers. plan9
  was lucky enough to have people in this role with an excellent
  taste in how code should look like. IMHO, that's the real reason
  behind why source reads like a good literature. It's not a question
  of functionality or community-based development it's really just
  a question of euthanizing code that shouldn't have seen the
  light of day in the first place, no matter how much useful
  features it contains.

  I can only hope that with jmk being the only one left we can still
  have this.

Thanks,
Roman.