* [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was @ 2012-09-14 13:12 dexen deVries 2012-09-14 13:52 ` Charles Forsyth 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: dexen deVries @ 2012-09-14 13:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Seems a well-meaning developer sort of re-invented Acme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg -- dexen deVries [[[↓][→]]] I'm sorry that this was such a long letter, but I didn't have time to write you a short one. -- Blaise Pascal ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 13:12 [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was dexen deVries @ 2012-09-14 13:52 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-14 14:07 ` Lucio De Re 2012-09-15 12:51 ` Aram Hăvărneanu 0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-14 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 397 bytes --] Probably never heard of Acme. On 14 September 2012 14:12, dexen deVries <dexen.devries@gmail.com> wrote: > Seems a well-meaning developer sort of re-invented Acme > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg > > -- > dexen deVries > > [[[↓][→]]] > > I'm sorry that this was such a long letter, but I didn't have time to > write > you a short one. -- Blaise Pascal > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 814 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 13:52 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-14 14:07 ` Lucio De Re 2012-09-14 14:10 ` Charles Forsyth [not found] ` <CAOw7k5ggBBkJYOX_Qa-9Jh+h3D7wcYsmpjWyexFMba46LPvRrQ@mail.gmail.c> 2012-09-15 12:51 ` Aram Hăvărneanu 1 sibling, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Lucio De Re @ 2012-09-14 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Probably never heard of Acme. The demo looks impressive, though. I didn't follow it very well, it was way too fast and full of references to concepts that evidently haven't reached my corner of Dark Africa yet :-) Still, Oberon had all that a long time ago, if memory isn't betraying me. ++L ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 14:07 ` Lucio De Re @ 2012-09-14 14:10 ` Charles Forsyth [not found] ` <CAOw7k5ggBBkJYOX_Qa-9Jh+h3D7wcYsmpjWyexFMba46LPvRrQ@mail.gmail.c> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-14 14:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: lucio, Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 198 bytes --] Probably never heard of Oberon either. On 14 September 2012 15:07, Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote: > Still, Oberon had all that a long time ago, if memory isn't betraying > me. > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 463 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
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* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was [not found] ` <CAOw7k5ggBBkJYOX_Qa-9Jh+h3D7wcYsmpjWyexFMba46LPvRrQ@mail.gmail.c> @ 2012-09-14 14:19 ` erik quanstrom 2012-09-14 14:25 ` Hugo Rivera ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2012-09-14 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: charles.forsyth, lucio, 9fans On Fri Sep 14 10:12:24 EDT 2012, charles.forsyth@gmail.com wrote: > Probably never heard of Oberon either. neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may not realize that acme itself is a copy. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 14:19 ` erik quanstrom @ 2012-09-14 14:25 ` Hugo Rivera 2012-09-14 14:26 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-17 12:51 ` michaelian ennis 2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Hugo Rivera @ 2012-09-14 14:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I knew it because I read the paper :-) 2012/9/14 erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>: > On Fri Sep 14 10:12:24 EDT 2012, charles.forsyth@gmail.com wrote: > >> Probably never heard of Oberon either. > > neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may > not realize that acme itself is a copy. > > - erik > -- Hugo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 14:19 ` erik quanstrom 2012-09-14 14:25 ` Hugo Rivera @ 2012-09-14 14:26 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-14 16:48 ` Jack Johnson 2012-09-17 12:51 ` michaelian ennis 2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-14 14:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: erik quanstrom; +Cc: 9fans, lucio [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 611 bytes --] "Copy" is a little strong: inspired by, certainly, by way of help/help, but there's an amazing difference in the structure of acme as "text editor as file server" with many independent clients accessing it through the file system. Oberon had a more conventional module "plug-in" structure within a single process. Acme's user interface is also more strictly text-oriented, and streamlined the mouse conventions. On 14 September 2012 15:19, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote: > neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may > not realize that acme itself is a copy. > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 955 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 14:26 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-14 16:48 ` Jack Johnson 2012-09-14 20:00 ` Anssi Porttikivi 2012-10-25 14:28 ` Ethan Grammatikidis 0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Jack Johnson @ 2012-09-14 16:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. -Jack ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 16:48 ` Jack Johnson @ 2012-09-14 20:00 ` Anssi Porttikivi 2012-09-14 20:02 ` Anssi Porttikivi 2012-10-25 14:28 ` Ethan Grammatikidis 1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Anssi Porttikivi @ 2012-09-14 20:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs; +Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to Oberon, the language. Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote 14.9.2012 kello 19.48: > Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. > > -Jack > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 20:00 ` Anssi Porttikivi @ 2012-09-14 20:02 ` Anssi Porttikivi 2012-09-14 21:58 ` Nick LaForge 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Anssi Porttikivi @ 2012-09-14 20:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Anssi Porttikivi; +Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Typos by iPhone. Forgive me, Rob. t. Anssi Anssi Porttikivi <porttikivi@gmail.com> kirjoitti 14.9.2012 kello 23.00: > Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to Oberon, the language. > > > > Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote 14.9.2012 kello 19.48: > >> Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. >> >> -Jack >> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 20:02 ` Anssi Porttikivi @ 2012-09-14 21:58 ` Nick LaForge 2012-09-14 23:15 ` hiro 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Nick LaForge @ 2012-09-14 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Speak of the devil.... "Good artists copy, great artists steal." -Pablo Picasso^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSteven Jobs^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSamsung Ltd.(?) This message: -some blogger^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HNick LaForge Typos by me. Sent from my meEgo (alphabet button invention included). (Don't) forgive me, Elop. On 9/14/12, Anssi Porttikivi <porttikivi@gmail.com> wrote: > Typos by iPhone. Forgive me, Rob. > > t. Anssi > > Anssi Porttikivi <porttikivi@gmail.com> kirjoitti 14.9.2012 kello 23.00: > >> Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in >> Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to >> Oberon, the language. >> >> >> >> Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote 14.9.2012 kello 19.48: >> >>> Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and >>> elegant. >>> >>> -Jack >>> > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 21:58 ` Nick LaForge @ 2012-09-14 23:15 ` hiro 2012-09-14 23:28 ` Matthew Veety 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: hiro @ 2012-09-14 23:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs forgive me, mother, for reading this mailinglist. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 23:15 ` hiro @ 2012-09-14 23:28 ` Matthew Veety 2012-09-17 18:24 ` Charles Forsyth 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Matthew Veety @ 2012-09-14 23:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 189 bytes --] On Sep 14, 2012 7:16 PM, "hiro" <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote: > > forgive me, mother, for reading this mailinglist. > I feel as though our mothers have already abandoned us for this list. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 281 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 23:28 ` Matthew Veety @ 2012-09-17 18:24 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-17 18:26 ` Charles Forsyth 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-17 18:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 154 bytes --] And this just in: http://research.swtch.com/acme?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hnycombinator+%28HN+-+hnycombinator%29 [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 383 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-17 18:24 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-17 18:26 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-18 6:03 ` Anssi Porttikivi 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-17 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 174 bytes --] And a cleaner link to that: http://research.swtch.com/acme On 17 September 2012 19:24, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>wrote: > And this just in: > ... > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 467 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-17 18:26 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-18 6:03 ` Anssi Porttikivi 0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Anssi Porttikivi @ 2012-09-18 6:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs; +Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 394 bytes --] Oh, god, this is what we have longed for almost 20 years. I always thought I should do this kind of video. Thank you Russ! t. Anssi Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> kirjoitti 17.9.2012 kello 21.26: > And a cleaner link to that: http://research.swtch.com/acme > > On 17 September 2012 19:24, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote: > And this just in: > ... [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 888 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 16:48 ` Jack Johnson 2012-09-14 20:00 ` Anssi Porttikivi @ 2012-10-25 14:28 ` Ethan Grammatikidis 2012-10-25 14:58 ` Dan Cross 1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Ethan Grammatikidis @ 2012-10-25 14:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:48:40 -0800 Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote: > Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. > > -Jack > It's still around in AOS form where it can run native or as a user-space program under other OSs. I used it to try out someone else's work and didn't really find the UI very elegant. In particular I couldn't copy text from the compiler error window, which I thought was desperately bad. Anyway, apart from that it worked; middle-clicking to compile and to launch the program was ok, and the OpenGL program I was trying out ran very smoothly. The only link I seem to have kept is http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/ -- This is obviously some strange usage of the word "simple" that I was previously unaware of. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-10-25 14:28 ` Ethan Grammatikidis @ 2012-10-25 14:58 ` Dan Cross 0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2012-10-25 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote: > On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:48:40 -0800 Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote: > > Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. > > It's still around in AOS form where it can run native or as a > user-space program under other OSs. I used it to try out someone else's > work and didn't really find the UI very elegant. In particular I > couldn't copy text from the compiler error window, which I thought was > desperately bad. Anyway, apart from that it worked; middle-clicking to > compile and to launch the program was ok, and the OpenGL program I was > trying out ran very smoothly. > > The only link I seem to have kept is http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/ Hindsight is always 20/20. When I first used Oberon 20 years ago, it had this amazing liberating feeling to it; a graphical demonstration of sorting algorithms? Brilliant! (I was in high school. Our "Computer Science" class was taught using Turbo Pascal on IBM PCs; the textbook had a picture of an IBM 4381 on the cover. Luckily, I managed to persuade the system administrators at the local university into giving me accounts on most of the major systems so I could use C, Unix and VMS.) My point is that it's so easy to forget that these sorts of statements about the power, simplicity and elegance of things past carry with them a context that is usually not explicitly articulated. If you came to Oberon from some primitive computing environment (like, say, PCs or something) then it was indeed fun and amazingly elegant. That said, I wouldn't want to go back to running it on a SPARCstation 1 with 16 megs of RAM, a 200MB disk, and a 17 inch black and white CRT. It's easy to look back and say to oneself, "wow, that wasn't as cool as I remembered it being..." but that doesn't change that, at the time, it *was* that cool because of the context. - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 14:19 ` erik quanstrom 2012-09-14 14:25 ` Hugo Rivera 2012-09-14 14:26 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2012-09-17 12:51 ` michaelian ennis 2012-09-18 13:51 ` michaelian ennis 2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: michaelian ennis @ 2012-09-17 12:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:19 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote: > neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may > not realize that acme itself is a copy. Isn't even that a derivation of the window system from PARC? Oak I believe? Ian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-17 12:51 ` michaelian ennis @ 2012-09-18 13:51 ` michaelian ennis 0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: michaelian ennis @ 2012-09-18 13:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Ah. Cedar. http://research.swtch.com/acme.pdf Ian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was 2012-09-14 13:52 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-14 14:07 ` Lucio De Re @ 2012-09-15 12:51 ` Aram Hăvărneanu 1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Aram Hăvărneanu @ 2012-09-15 12:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > Probably never heard of Acme. Great, the idea must be good then. -- Aram Hăvărneanu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2012-10-25 14:58 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 21+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2012-09-14 13:12 [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was dexen deVries 2012-09-14 13:52 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-14 14:07 ` Lucio De Re 2012-09-14 14:10 ` Charles Forsyth [not found] ` <CAOw7k5ggBBkJYOX_Qa-9Jh+h3D7wcYsmpjWyexFMba46LPvRrQ@mail.gmail.c> 2012-09-14 14:19 ` erik quanstrom 2012-09-14 14:25 ` Hugo Rivera 2012-09-14 14:26 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-14 16:48 ` Jack Johnson 2012-09-14 20:00 ` Anssi Porttikivi 2012-09-14 20:02 ` Anssi Porttikivi 2012-09-14 21:58 ` Nick LaForge 2012-09-14 23:15 ` hiro 2012-09-14 23:28 ` Matthew Veety 2012-09-17 18:24 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-17 18:26 ` Charles Forsyth 2012-09-18 6:03 ` Anssi Porttikivi 2012-10-25 14:28 ` Ethan Grammatikidis 2012-10-25 14:58 ` Dan Cross 2012-09-17 12:51 ` michaelian ennis 2012-09-18 13:51 ` michaelian ennis 2012-09-15 12:51 ` Aram Hăvărneanu
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