mail crazyness

mail crazyness

[William Gunnells]

I have never had such a hard time getting something that should be so simple to work

It seems like I type out the same commands over and over again and gamble at what needs to be done. 

This a huge amount of confusion. If I boot the system into cpu/auth mode I seem to get further. But honestly I don’t believe it. I know that wherever or however I log in I am glenda

Typing in the same commands over and over is simply silly. Nothing seems to stick

I actually got the mail to work only for the container to accidentally get rebooted because of other issues
and the fact I really didn’t understand persistence

To actually check mail I have to type the following

auth/factotum. By the way this is either in the profile or cpurc. Not sure why I have to do that. Seems silly. 

echo ‘key proto=pass server=imap.gmail.com service=imap user=thinktankworkspaces !password=whaterver’>/mnt/factotum/ctl

then run 
upas/fs -f /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com 

Even after I get this far I’m still not to sure I did things right. A prompt does ask me to enter the password. 

It seems like /mnt/factotum/ctl has two entries,  one with full email including the @ symbol and one without the @ symbol. Seems kind of redundant. Why run the echo statement in the first place. 

But no. I’m not done yet 

i need to mount this file or open this file
echo open /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces mbox >/mail/fs/ctl Still not sure if I need the @ symbol or not. But guess what I get an error permission denied or its busy or whatever

I have to run upas/fs -n

Honestly not even sure about the order of this verses -f anymore. Seems like -n doesn’t interfere with file or something like that according to the man page. 

But it seems to be the only way to mount that file or whatever. 

And I have to do that on the same screen, same namespace, because I can’t draw another screen. I already did too much work to get this far.  I can run acme and enter ‘Mail’ somewhere/anywhere then click it and things seem to work. But I can only send email from myself to myself using my gmail.com account. I can’t send it to another person or another email account. I can’t figure out why. It did work before the crash. Oh and I won’t bore you with the details of doing this twice on two draw screens because i wanted to test ‘faces’. Lot's of copy and paste. 

I suspect it has something to do with rewrite. I made the mistake of deleting it. But since the original file had very little anyways. I didn’t think it was a big deal to delete it and 'cp rewrite.gateway rewrite'. 

Then change the domain to \1@gmail.com. But while it worked before. It no longer works now. I can’t send mail. 

I thought perhaps because I deleted and re-created it, if you look closely its owned by Glenda 
——rw-rw-r-- M 24 glenda upas 1154 Jul 23 06:40 rewrite

Plan9 does not have chown, and chgrp does not work something about stats. 

while I have the correct imap in /mnt/factotum/ctl I also made sure I had the correct smtp in /mnt/factotum/ctl

Still now sure what /mail/lib/remotemail is supposed to do. I have run it before to see what it does. It does make a connection without errors. Perhaps this is a wrapper for for upas. Seems logical

I have the correct sender, address and gmail statements as listed in the documentation. 

i believe I have the x509 files created for both /sys/lib/tls/mail and /sys/lib/tls/smtp

Why honestly is this so difficult. I believe this to be a huge problem. There is no step by step instructions that say. 

Wait!!!! Don’t change screens, because you will be in a different namespace. Oh wait please remember this doesn’t persists. Oh wait you kind of want things in a profile. Why are they not in the profile in the first place. They can be in there and commented out. And HONESTLY. How do I know this profile is really working. 

The profile already had the following to begin with. 

webfs
plumber
upas/fs -n
rio -i riostart

I still have to type this when I drawterm from another OS. So I don’t see the point. 

If I boot to CPU/Auth and want yo run rio from the terminal its an even greater nightmare. But no big deal 
I did figure it out

I need to have 
mouseport=ps2
vgasize=1024x768x16
aux/mouse $mouseport
fork; aux/realemu; aux/vga -m visa -l $vgasize # wow really who came up with that
#####and I need
bind -a ‘#i’ /dev
####then 
exec rio -i riostart


Now I have a GUI that comes up after reboot as cpu/auth

I swear auth/keyfs and auth/factotum were mounted or started in that cpurc file

For the love of God why do I have to type it in again.

Why when I drawterm from another OS it doesn’t seem to really make a difference and I have to type auth/keyfs or auth/factotum or whatever. 

I do check log files. Sometimes they are helpful. Like incorrect this or incorrect that but then sometimes it reads a tls message has been sent at such and such time. But no mail was actually sent. OMG

Lastly I’m super confused on persisting. It seems wasteful to run the commands in some mounted area and re-echo the same commands again. There should be a way to pull in or merge from existing /factotucm/ctl

Clarity would be nice

Damn. I hate asking for Pink Ponies. 

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[sirjofri+ml-9front]

Hello,

that's why I used half a year reading all documentation I could find on plan 9. You need a solid understanding of how things work.

Factotum for example. You need factotum, even if you don't want to store your passwords. Every software uses factotum for authentication.

Upas is nice and opens the default mailbox with your -f parameter. It's important to understand what upas as a filesystem is and read the man page to learn more about it.

Obviously, read the man pages. Start by typing:

man factotum
man upasfs

And read what's there. Also read the fqa. Read the important sections.

I know plan9 is frustrating if you are a beginner, it's good to forget everything you know from other systems, including unix. Start at zero and be a learner.

I hope this is constructive and helpful.

Have fun

sirjofri

23.07.2020 11:56:33 William Gunnells <gunnells@gmail.com>:
> I have never had such a hard time getting something that should be so simple to work
>
> It seems like I type out the same commands over and over again and gamble at what needs to be done.
>
> This a huge amount of confusion. If I boot the system into cpu/auth mode I seem to get further. But honestly I don’t believe it. I know that wherever or however I log in I am glenda
>
> Typing in the same commands over and over is simply silly. Nothing seems to stick
>
> I actually got the mail to work only for the container to accidentally get rebooted because of other issues
> and the fact I really didn’t understand persistence
>
> To actually check mail I have to type the following
>
> auth/factotum. By the way this is either in the profile or cpurc. Not sure why I have to do that. Seems silly.
>
> echo ‘key proto=pass server=imap.gmail.com service=imap user=thinktankworkspaces !password=whaterver’>/mnt/factotum/ctl
>
> then run
> upas/fs -f /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com
>
> Even after I get this far I’m still not to sure I did things right. A prompt does ask me to enter the password.
>
> It seems like /mnt/factotum/ctl has two entries,  one with full email including the @ symbol and one without the @ symbol. Seems kind of redundant. Why run the echo statement in the first place.
>
> But no. I’m not done yet
>
> i need to mount this file or open this file
> echo open /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces mbox >/mail/fs/ctl Still not sure if I need the @ symbol or not. But guess what I get an error permission denied or its busy or whatever
>
> I have to run upas/fs -n
>
> Honestly not even sure about the order of this verses -f anymore. Seems like -n doesn’t interfere with file or something like that according to the man page.
>
> But it seems to be the only way to mount that file or whatever.
>
> And I have to do that on the same screen, same namespace, because I can’t draw another screen. I already did too much work to get this far.  I can run acme and enter ‘Mail’ somewhere/anywhere then click it and things seem to work. But I can only send email from myself to myself using my gmail.com account. I can’t send it to another person or another email account. I can’t figure out why. It did work before the crash. Oh and I won’t bore you with the details of doing this twice on two draw screens because i wanted to test ‘faces’. Lot's of copy and paste.
>
> I suspect it has something to do with rewrite. I made the mistake of deleting it. But since the original file had very little anyways. I didn’t think it was a big deal to delete it and 'cp rewrite.gateway rewrite'.
>
> Then change the domain to \1@gmail.com. But while it worked before. It no longer works now. I can’t send mail.
>
> I thought perhaps because I deleted and re-created it, if you look closely its owned by Glenda
> ——rw-rw-r-- M 24 glenda upas 1154 Jul 23 06:40 rewrite
>
> Plan9 does not have chown, and chgrp does not work something about stats.
>
> while I have the correct imap in /mnt/factotum/ctl I also made sure I had the correct smtp in /mnt/factotum/ctl
>
> Still now sure what /mail/lib/remotemail is supposed to do. I have run it before to see what it does. It does make a connection without errors. Perhaps this is a wrapper for for upas. Seems logical
>
> I have the correct sender, address and gmail statements as listed in the documentation.
>
> i believe I have the x509 files created for both /sys/lib/tls/mail and /sys/lib/tls/smtp
>
> Why honestly is this so difficult. I believe this to be a huge problem. There is no step by step instructions that say.
>
> Wait!!!! Don’t change screens, because you will be in a different namespace. Oh wait please remember this doesn’t persists. Oh wait you kind of want things in a profile. Why are they not in the profile in the first place. They can be in there and commented out. And HONESTLY. How do I know this profile is really working.
>
> The profile already had the following to begin with.
>
> webfs
> plumber
> upas/fs -n
> rio -i riostart
>
> I still have to type this when I drawterm from another OS. So I don’t see the point.
>
> If I boot to CPU/Auth and want yo run rio from the terminal its an even greater nightmare. But no big deal
> I did figure it out
>
> I need to have
> mouseport=ps2
> vgasize=1024x768x16
> aux/mouse $mouseport
> fork; aux/realemu; aux/vga -m visa -l $vgasize # wow really who came up with that
> #####and I need
> bind -a ‘#i’ /dev
> ####then
> exec rio -i riostart
>
> Now I have a GUI that comes up after reboot as cpu/auth
>
> I swear auth/keyfs and auth/factotum were mounted or started in that cpurc file
>
> For the love of God why do I have to type it in again.
>
> Why when I drawterm from another OS it doesn’t seem to really make a difference and I have to type auth/keyfs or auth/factotum or whatever.
>
> I do check log files. Sometimes they are helpful. Like incorrect this or incorrect that but then sometimes it reads a tls message has been sent at such and such time. But no mail was actually sent. OMG
>
> Lastly I’m super confused on persisting. It seems wasteful to run the commands in some mounted area and re-echo the same commands again. There should be a way to pull in or merge from existing /factotucm/ctl
>
> Clarity would be nice
>
> Damn. I hate asking for Pink Ponies.
>

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[hiro]

he is right though that there are some really stupid defaults: like
that it's hard to just open a few rio windows sharing a namespace,
unless you're fine using a subrio (but i hate such deep hierarchies
being imposed on me).

hopefully some time we can change this.

william: subrio means running rio inside rio. and this is relevant,
because if you mount something and THEN start rio, all rio windows
will see that mount.

On 7/23/20, sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de
<sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> that's why I used half a year reading all documentation I could find on plan
> 9. You need a solid understanding of how things work.
>
> Factotum for example. You need factotum, even if you don't want to store
> your passwords. Every software uses factotum for authentication.
>
> Upas is nice and opens the default mailbox with your -f parameter. It's
> important to understand what upas as a filesystem is and read the man page
> to learn more about it.
>
> Obviously, read the man pages. Start by typing:
>
> man factotum
> man upasfs
>
> And read what's there. Also read the fqa. Read the important sections.
>
> I know plan9 is frustrating if you are a beginner, it's good to forget
> everything you know from other systems, including unix. Start at zero and be
> a learner.
>
> I hope this is constructive and helpful.
>
> Have fun
>
> sirjofri
>
> 23.07.2020 11:56:33 William Gunnells <gunnells@gmail.com>:
>> I have never had such a hard time getting something that should be so
>> simple to work
>>
>> It seems like I type out the same commands over and over again and gamble
>> at what needs to be done.
>>
>> This a huge amount of confusion. If I boot the system into cpu/auth mode I
>> seem to get further. But honestly I don’t believe it. I know that wherever
>> or however I log in I am glenda
>>
>> Typing in the same commands over and over is simply silly. Nothing seems
>> to stick
>>
>> I actually got the mail to work only for the container to accidentally get
>> rebooted because of other issues
>> and the fact I really didn’t understand persistence
>>
>> To actually check mail I have to type the following
>>
>> auth/factotum. By the way this is either in the profile or cpurc. Not sure
>> why I have to do that. Seems silly.
>>
>> echo ‘key proto=pass server=imap.gmail.com service=imap
>> user=thinktankworkspaces !password=whaterver’>/mnt/factotum/ctl
>>
>> then run
>> upas/fs -f /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com
>>
>> Even after I get this far I’m still not to sure I did things right. A
>> prompt does ask me to enter the password.
>>
>> It seems like /mnt/factotum/ctl has two entries,  one with full email
>> including the @ symbol and one without the @ symbol. Seems kind of
>> redundant. Why run the echo statement in the first place.
>>
>> But no. I’m not done yet
>>
>> i need to mount this file or open this file
>> echo open /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces mbox >/mail/fs/ctl
>> Still not sure if I need the @ symbol or not. But guess what I get an
>> error permission denied or its busy or whatever
>>
>> I have to run upas/fs -n
>>
>> Honestly not even sure about the order of this verses -f anymore. Seems
>> like -n doesn’t interfere with file or something like that according to
>> the man page.
>>
>> But it seems to be the only way to mount that file or whatever.
>>
>> And I have to do that on the same screen, same namespace, because I can’t
>> draw another screen. I already did too much work to get this far.  I can
>> run acme and enter ‘Mail’ somewhere/anywhere then click it and things seem
>> to work. But I can only send email from myself to myself using my
>> gmail.com account. I can’t send it to another person or another email
>> account. I can’t figure out why. It did work before the crash. Oh and I
>> won’t bore you with the details of doing this twice on two draw screens
>> because i wanted to test ‘faces’. Lot's of copy and paste.
>>
>> I suspect it has something to do with rewrite. I made the mistake of
>> deleting it. But since the original file had very little anyways. I didn’t
>> think it was a big deal to delete it and 'cp rewrite.gateway rewrite'.
>>
>> Then change the domain to \1@gmail.com. But while it worked before. It no
>> longer works now. I can’t send mail.
>>
>> I thought perhaps because I deleted and re-created it, if you look closely
>> its owned by Glenda
>> ——rw-rw-r-- M 24 glenda upas 1154 Jul 23 06:40 rewrite
>>
>> Plan9 does not have chown, and chgrp does not work something about stats.
>>
>> while I have the correct imap in /mnt/factotum/ctl I also made sure I had
>> the correct smtp in /mnt/factotum/ctl
>>
>> Still now sure what /mail/lib/remotemail is supposed to do. I have run it
>> before to see what it does. It does make a connection without errors.
>> Perhaps this is a wrapper for for upas. Seems logical
>>
>> I have the correct sender, address and gmail statements as listed in the
>> documentation.
>>
>> i believe I have the x509 files created for both /sys/lib/tls/mail and
>> /sys/lib/tls/smtp
>>
>> Why honestly is this so difficult. I believe this to be a huge problem.
>> There is no step by step instructions that say.
>>
>> Wait!!!! Don’t change screens, because you will be in a different
>> namespace. Oh wait please remember this doesn’t persists. Oh wait you kind
>> of want things in a profile. Why are they not in the profile in the first
>> place. They can be in there and commented out. And HONESTLY. How do I know
>> this profile is really working.
>>
>> The profile already had the following to begin with.
>>
>> webfs
>> plumber
>> upas/fs -n
>> rio -i riostart
>>
>> I still have to type this when I drawterm from another OS. So I don’t see
>> the point.
>>
>> If I boot to CPU/Auth and want yo run rio from the terminal its an even
>> greater nightmare. But no big deal
>> I did figure it out
>>
>> I need to have
>> mouseport=ps2
>> vgasize=1024x768x16
>> aux/mouse $mouseport
>> fork; aux/realemu; aux/vga -m visa -l $vgasize # wow really who came up
>> with that
>> #####and I need
>> bind -a ‘#i’ /dev
>> ####then
>> exec rio -i riostart
>>
>> Now I have a GUI that comes up after reboot as cpu/auth
>>
>> I swear auth/keyfs and auth/factotum were mounted or started in that cpurc
>> file
>>
>> For the love of God why do I have to type it in again.
>>
>> Why when I drawterm from another OS it doesn’t seem to really make a
>> difference and I have to type auth/keyfs or auth/factotum or whatever.
>>
>> I do check log files. Sometimes they are helpful. Like incorrect this or
>> incorrect that but then sometimes it reads a tls message has been sent at
>> such and such time. But no mail was actually sent. OMG
>>
>> Lastly I’m super confused on persisting. It seems wasteful to run the
>> commands in some mounted area and re-echo the same commands again. There
>> should be a way to pull in or merge from existing /factotucm/ctl
>>
>> Clarity would be nice
>>
>> Damn. I hate asking for Pink Ponies.
>>
>
>

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[William Gunnells]

Oh wow. That is interesting. Where is that documented. No no I... will read rio.

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:15 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> he is right though that there are some really stupid defaults: like
> that it's hard to just open a few rio windows sharing a namespace,
> unless you're fine using a subrio (but i hate such deep hierarchies
> being imposed on me).
> 
> hopefully some time we can change this.
> 
> william: subrio means running rio inside rio. and this is relevant,
> because if you mount something and THEN start rio, all rio windows
> will see that mount.
> 
> On 7/23/20, sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de
> <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> that's why I used half a year reading all documentation I could find on plan
>> 9. You need a solid understanding of how things work.
>> 
>> Factotum for example. You need factotum, even if you don't want to store
>> your passwords. Every software uses factotum for authentication.
>> 
>> Upas is nice and opens the default mailbox with your -f parameter. It's
>> important to understand what upas as a filesystem is and read the man page
>> to learn more about it.
>> 
>> Obviously, read the man pages. Start by typing:
>> 
>> man factotum
>> man upasfs
>> 
>> And read what's there. Also read the fqa. Read the important sections.
>> 
>> I know plan9 is frustrating if you are a beginner, it's good to forget
>> everything you know from other systems, including unix. Start at zero and be
>> a learner.
>> 
>> I hope this is constructive and helpful.
>> 
>> Have fun
>> 
>> sirjofri
>> 
>> 23.07.2020 11:56:33 William Gunnells <gunnells@gmail.com>:
>>> I have never had such a hard time getting something that should be so
>>> simple to work
>>> 
>>> It seems like I type out the same commands over and over again and gamble
>>> at what needs to be done.
>>> 
>>> This a huge amount of confusion. If I boot the system into cpu/auth mode I
>>> seem to get further. But honestly I don’t believe it. I know that wherever
>>> or however I log in I am glenda
>>> 
>>> Typing in the same commands over and over is simply silly. Nothing seems
>>> to stick
>>> 
>>> I actually got the mail to work only for the container to accidentally get
>>> rebooted because of other issues
>>> and the fact I really didn’t understand persistence
>>> 
>>> To actually check mail I have to type the following
>>> 
>>> auth/factotum. By the way this is either in the profile or cpurc. Not sure
>>> why I have to do that. Seems silly.
>>> 
>>> echo ‘key proto=pass server=imap.gmail.com service=imap
>>> user=thinktankworkspaces !password=whaterver’>/mnt/factotum/ctl
>>> 
>>> then run
>>> upas/fs -f /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> Even after I get this far I’m still not to sure I did things right. A
>>> prompt does ask me to enter the password.
>>> 
>>> It seems like /mnt/factotum/ctl has two entries,  one with full email
>>> including the @ symbol and one without the @ symbol. Seems kind of
>>> redundant. Why run the echo statement in the first place.
>>> 
>>> But no. I’m not done yet
>>> 
>>> i need to mount this file or open this file
>>> echo open /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces mbox >/mail/fs/ctl
>>> Still not sure if I need the @ symbol or not. But guess what I get an
>>> error permission denied or its busy or whatever
>>> 
>>> I have to run upas/fs -n
>>> 
>>> Honestly not even sure about the order of this verses -f anymore. Seems
>>> like -n doesn’t interfere with file or something like that according to
>>> the man page.
>>> 
>>> But it seems to be the only way to mount that file or whatever.
>>> 
>>> And I have to do that on the same screen, same namespace, because I can’t
>>> draw another screen. I already did too much work to get this far.  I can
>>> run acme and enter ‘Mail’ somewhere/anywhere then click it and things seem
>>> to work. But I can only send email from myself to myself using my
>>> gmail.com account. I can’t send it to another person or another email
>>> account. I can’t figure out why. It did work before the crash. Oh and I
>>> won’t bore you with the details of doing this twice on two draw screens
>>> because i wanted to test ‘faces’. Lot's of copy and paste.
>>> 
>>> I suspect it has something to do with rewrite. I made the mistake of
>>> deleting it. But since the original file had very little anyways. I didn’t
>>> think it was a big deal to delete it and 'cp rewrite.gateway rewrite'.
>>> 
>>> Then change the domain to \1@gmail.com. But while it worked before. It no
>>> longer works now. I can’t send mail.
>>> 
>>> I thought perhaps because I deleted and re-created it, if you look closely
>>> its owned by Glenda
>>> ——rw-rw-r-- M 24 glenda upas 1154 Jul 23 06:40 rewrite
>>> 
>>> Plan9 does not have chown, and chgrp does not work something about stats.
>>> 
>>> while I have the correct imap in /mnt/factotum/ctl I also made sure I had
>>> the correct smtp in /mnt/factotum/ctl
>>> 
>>> Still now sure what /mail/lib/remotemail is supposed to do. I have run it
>>> before to see what it does. It does make a connection without errors.
>>> Perhaps this is a wrapper for for upas. Seems logical
>>> 
>>> I have the correct sender, address and gmail statements as listed in the
>>> documentation.
>>> 
>>> i believe I have the x509 files created for both /sys/lib/tls/mail and
>>> /sys/lib/tls/smtp
>>> 
>>> Why honestly is this so difficult. I believe this to be a huge problem.
>>> There is no step by step instructions that say.
>>> 
>>> Wait!!!! Don’t change screens, because you will be in a different
>>> namespace. Oh wait please remember this doesn’t persists. Oh wait you kind
>>> of want things in a profile. Why are they not in the profile in the first
>>> place. They can be in there and commented out. And HONESTLY. How do I know
>>> this profile is really working.
>>> 
>>> The profile already had the following to begin with.
>>> 
>>> webfs
>>> plumber
>>> upas/fs -n
>>> rio -i riostart
>>> 
>>> I still have to type this when I drawterm from another OS. So I don’t see
>>> the point.
>>> 
>>> If I boot to CPU/Auth and want yo run rio from the terminal its an even
>>> greater nightmare. But no big deal
>>> I did figure it out
>>> 
>>> I need to have
>>> mouseport=ps2
>>> vgasize=1024x768x16
>>> aux/mouse $mouseport
>>> fork; aux/realemu; aux/vga -m visa -l $vgasize # wow really who came up
>>> with that
>>> #####and I need
>>> bind -a ‘#i’ /dev
>>> ####then
>>> exec rio -i riostart
>>> 
>>> Now I have a GUI that comes up after reboot as cpu/auth
>>> 
>>> I swear auth/keyfs and auth/factotum were mounted or started in that cpurc
>>> file
>>> 
>>> For the love of God why do I have to type it in again.
>>> 
>>> Why when I drawterm from another OS it doesn’t seem to really make a
>>> difference and I have to type auth/keyfs or auth/factotum or whatever.
>>> 
>>> I do check log files. Sometimes they are helpful. Like incorrect this or
>>> incorrect that but then sometimes it reads a tls message has been sent at
>>> such and such time. But no mail was actually sent. OMG
>>> 
>>> Lastly I’m super confused on persisting. It seems wasteful to run the
>>> commands in some mounted area and re-echo the same commands again. There
>>> should be a way to pull in or merge from existing /factotucm/ctl
>>> 
>>> Clarity would be nice
>>> 
>>> Damn. I hate asking for Pink Ponies.
>>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[hiro]

some of the implications are obvious if you have read all the papers
in /sys/doc, it's a bigger philosophical leap that is easier to
explain in the abstract but also hard to live by in practice if you
have strong unix habits.

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[sirjofri+ml-9front]

Hello William,

you can always ask. Also feel free to join the 9fans discord and other platforms. I am often online on 9gridchan chat, never on irc, but there are others that can help.

To join 9gridchan you can download an official script from wiki.9gridchan.org or my inofficial script to connect a window to the network.

Using my script just run in a rio window:

webfs   # if it's not already running
hget https://sirjofri.de/files/griddy > griddy
chmod +x griddy
griddy -tq
/n/griddisk/rc/minichat chat
<Everything you type will be sent to the chat under the name of kiwi>

Using the official gridstart script, it will set up a rio window with beginner's information, like a help page and it automatically connects to the chat, I think. Personally I don't like this, but it might be helpful to you. (You can download the script again with hget http://ants.9gridchan.org/scripts/gridstart > gridstart and run it).

There are often people online willing to help and have a nice chat. We will introduce you to the grid and you can download/run other chat solutions or write your own one. This might also be quicker than asking the mailing list and waiting for response.

Discord is similar and might be easier, but it's not inside a plan9 environment, so it's harder to copy paste and try things out.

sirjofri

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[hiro]

"Also feel free to join the 9fans discord and other platforms. I am
often online on 9gridchan chat, never on irc"

what other platforms? is the community forked even further now?

2 ml and 2 irc channels clearly weren't enough :(

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[Thaddeus Woskowiak]

##9fans on freenode is bridged to matrix which in turn is bridged to
discord. Same channel, different platforms.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:09 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Also feel free to join the 9fans discord and other platforms. I am
> often online on 9gridchan chat, never on irc"
>
> what other platforms? is the community forked even further now?
>
> 2 ml and 2 irc channels clearly weren't enough :(

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[William Gunnells]

Oh i know and I have read. Just when I think I know I don’t. Kind of wish I knew someone close by. But sadly I don’t. Just to see how they use it. Because I know I'm not using it right. Not giving up just discouraged. There is something about this.

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:08 AM, sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> that's why I used half a year reading all documentation I could find on plan 9. You need a solid understanding of how things work.
> 
> Factotum for example. You need factotum, even if you don't want to store your passwords. Every software uses factotum for authentication.
> 
> Upas is nice and opens the default mailbox with your -f parameter. It's important to understand what upas as a filesystem is and read the man page to learn more about it.
> 
> Obviously, read the man pages. Start by typing:
> 
> man factotum
> man upasfs
> 
> And read what's there. Also read the fqa. Read the important sections.
> 
> I know plan9 is frustrating if you are a beginner, it's good to forget everything you know from other systems, including unix. Start at zero and be a learner.
> 
> I hope this is constructive and helpful.
> 
> Have fun
> 
> sirjofri
> 
> 23.07.2020 11:56:33 William Gunnells <gunnells@gmail.com>:
>> I have never had such a hard time getting something that should be so simple to work
>> 
>> It seems like I type out the same commands over and over again and gamble at what needs to be done.
>> 
>> This a huge amount of confusion. If I boot the system into cpu/auth mode I seem to get further. But honestly I don’t believe it. I know that wherever or however I log in I am glenda
>> 
>> Typing in the same commands over and over is simply silly. Nothing seems to stick
>> 
>> I actually got the mail to work only for the container to accidentally get rebooted because of other issues
>> and the fact I really didn’t understand persistence
>> 
>> To actually check mail I have to type the following
>> 
>> auth/factotum. By the way this is either in the profile or cpurc. Not sure why I have to do that. Seems silly.
>> 
>> echo ‘key proto=pass server=imap.gmail.com service=imap user=thinktankworkspaces !password=whaterver’>/mnt/factotum/ctl
>> 
>> then run
>> upas/fs -f /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com
>> 
>> Even after I get this far I’m still not to sure I did things right. A prompt does ask me to enter the password.
>> 
>> It seems like /mnt/factotum/ctl has two entries,  one with full email including the @ symbol and one without the @ symbol. Seems kind of redundant. Why run the echo statement in the first place.
>> 
>> But no. I’m not done yet
>> 
>> i need to mount this file or open this file
>> echo open /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces mbox >/mail/fs/ctl Still not sure if I need the @ symbol or not. But guess what I get an error permission denied or its busy or whatever
>> 
>> I have to run upas/fs -n
>> 
>> Honestly not even sure about the order of this verses -f anymore. Seems like -n doesn’t interfere with file or something like that according to the man page.
>> 
>> But it seems to be the only way to mount that file or whatever.
>> 
>> And I have to do that on the same screen, same namespace, because I can’t draw another screen. I already did too much work to get this far.  I can run acme and enter ‘Mail’ somewhere/anywhere then click it and things seem to work. But I can only send email from myself to myself using my gmail.com account. I can’t send it to another person or another email account. I can’t figure out why. It did work before the crash. Oh and I won’t bore you with the details of doing this twice on two draw screens because i wanted to test ‘faces’. Lot's of copy and paste.
>> 
>> I suspect it has something to do with rewrite. I made the mistake of deleting it. But since the original file had very little anyways. I didn’t think it was a big deal to delete it and 'cp rewrite.gateway rewrite'.
>> 
>> Then change the domain to \1@gmail.com. But while it worked before. It no longer works now. I can’t send mail.
>> 
>> I thought perhaps because I deleted and re-created it, if you look closely its owned by Glenda
>> ——rw-rw-r-- M 24 glenda upas 1154 Jul 23 06:40 rewrite
>> 
>> Plan9 does not have chown, and chgrp does not work something about stats.
>> 
>> while I have the correct imap in /mnt/factotum/ctl I also made sure I had the correct smtp in /mnt/factotum/ctl
>> 
>> Still now sure what /mail/lib/remotemail is supposed to do. I have run it before to see what it does. It does make a connection without errors. Perhaps this is a wrapper for for upas. Seems logical
>> 
>> I have the correct sender, address and gmail statements as listed in the documentation.
>> 
>> i believe I have the x509 files created for both /sys/lib/tls/mail and /sys/lib/tls/smtp
>> 
>> Why honestly is this so difficult. I believe this to be a huge problem. There is no step by step instructions that say.
>> 
>> Wait!!!! Don’t change screens, because you will be in a different namespace. Oh wait please remember this doesn’t persists. Oh wait you kind of want things in a profile. Why are they not in the profile in the first place. They can be in there and commented out. And HONESTLY. How do I know this profile is really working.
>> 
>> The profile already had the following to begin with.
>> 
>> webfs
>> plumber
>> upas/fs -n
>> rio -i riostart
>> 
>> I still have to type this when I drawterm from another OS. So I don’t see the point.
>> 
>> If I boot to CPU/Auth and want yo run rio from the terminal its an even greater nightmare. But no big deal
>> I did figure it out
>> 
>> I need to have
>> mouseport=ps2
>> vgasize=1024x768x16
>> aux/mouse $mouseport
>> fork; aux/realemu; aux/vga -m visa -l $vgasize # wow really who came up with that
>> #####and I need
>> bind -a ‘#i’ /dev
>> ####then
>> exec rio -i riostart
>> 
>> Now I have a GUI that comes up after reboot as cpu/auth
>> 
>> I swear auth/keyfs and auth/factotum were mounted or started in that cpurc file
>> 
>> For the love of God why do I have to type it in again.
>> 
>> Why when I drawterm from another OS it doesn’t seem to really make a difference and I have to type auth/keyfs or auth/factotum or whatever.
>> 
>> I do check log files. Sometimes they are helpful. Like incorrect this or incorrect that but then sometimes it reads a tls message has been sent at such and such time. But no mail was actually sent. OMG
>> 
>> Lastly I’m super confused on persisting. It seems wasteful to run the commands in some mounted area and re-echo the same commands again. There should be a way to pull in or merge from existing /factotucm/ctl
>> 
>> Clarity would be nice
>> 
>> Damn. I hate asking for Pink Ponies.
>> 
> 

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[ori]

Right now, it doesn't sound like you're understanding what you're trying to do.

> It seems like /mnt/factotum/ctl has two entries,  one with full email
> including the @ symbol and one without the @ symbol. Seems kind of
> redundant. Why run the echo statement in the first place. 

You didn't need to -- the one you echoed didn't work as the login, so
factotum promted for the one that did.

> i need to mount this file or open this file
> echo open /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces mbox >/mail/fs/ctl
> Still not sure if I need the @ symbol or not. But guess what I get an
> error permission denied or its busy or whatever

The echo is only needed if you ran `upas/fs -n`. I use that
so I can put the upas command into my profile, and not wait
for it to try loading the mailbox. On slow networks the sync
can take a long time. If I put the upas command in my profile,
it's available for all windows.

If you don't use `-n`, then you don't need the echo. You're
already done.

So, right now, half the stuff you're mentioning is just
not needed.

So, if you have factotum in your profile, all you need
is:

	upas/fs -f /imaps/imap-server/username
	(enter password)
	acme
	(type Mail, middle click on it)

and you should be done.

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[William Gunnells]

I agree. I had to read a lot more

I wish we had more docs on this and the factotum thing. Honestly its a lot to read. So I have mail working again

Here is where I am. I have some script that checks the smtp/imap keys I have created in $home/lib/fact.keys

When I run this script it populates the keys into /mnt/factotum/ctl. So I’m happy about that

However it does not work in profile. I really don’t understand that

here is what I have 

after auth/factotum

I think before webfs
if(test -f $home/lib/fact.keys
    auth/aescbc -d < $home/lib/fact.keys | read -m >/mnt/factotum/ctl

I can run it manually but it does not work in profile

Yea this whole thing is very different
do I really put my password in profile? That’s interesting because I notice that when I run my ipso script manual
rc key_script it does ask me for a password



> On Jul 26, 2020, at 1:01 PM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
> Right now, it doesn't sound like you're understanding what you're trying to do.
> 
>> It seems like /mnt/factotum/ctl has two entries,  one with full email
>> including the @ symbol and one without the @ symbol. Seems kind of
>> redundant. Why run the echo statement in the first place. 
> 
> You didn't need to -- the one you echoed didn't work as the login, so
> factotum promted for the one that did.
> 
>> i need to mount this file or open this file
>> echo open /imaps/imap.gmail.com/thinktankworkspaces mbox >/mail/fs/ctl
>> Still not sure if I need the @ symbol or not. But guess what I get an
>> error permission denied or its busy or whatever
> 
> The echo is only needed if you ran `upas/fs -n`. I use that
> so I can put the upas command into my profile, and not wait
> for it to try loading the mailbox. On slow networks the sync
> can take a long time. If I put the upas command in my profile,
> it's available for all windows.
> 
> If you don't use `-n`, then you don't need the echo. You're
> already done.
> 
> So, right now, half the stuff you're mentioning is just
> not needed.
> 
> So, if you have factotum in your profile, all you need
> is:
> 
> 	upas/fs -f /imaps/imap-server/username
> 	(enter password)
> 	acme
> 	(type Mail, middle click on it)
> 
> and you should be done.
> 

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[ori]

> Here is where I am. I have some script that checks the smtp/imap keys I have created in $home/lib/fact.keys
> 
> When I run this script it populates the keys into /mnt/factotum/ctl. So I’m happy about that
> 
> However it does not work in profile. I really don’t understand that

Two things:

1) That's roughly what secstore does for you: It stores your
keys securely, and factotum reads them on startup. It's ok
to duplicate it, though -- secstore is another thing to set
up, and if this works for you, lt's not worth the distraction.

2) Are you running that script before or after you start
factotum from your profile?

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[William Gunnells]

So I run auth/factotum first. My guess is that I’m doing this wrong again. 
It appears that the keys for p9sk1 and dp9ik have been removed?

So Do I need to just change the order or should I add these entries to the $home/lib/fact.keys also


> On Jul 26, 2020, at 1:37 PM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
>> Here is where I am. I have some script that checks the smtp/imap keys I have created in $home/lib/fact.keys
>> 
>> When I run this script it populates the keys into /mnt/factotum/ctl. So I’m happy about that
>> 
>> However it does not work in profile. I really don’t understand that
> 
> Two things:
> 
> 1) That's roughly what secstore does for you: It stores your
> keys securely, and factotum reads them on startup. It's ok
> to duplicate it, though -- secstore is another thing to set
> up, and if this works for you, lt's not worth the distraction.
> 
> 2) Are you running that script before or after you start
> factotum from your profile?
> 

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[William Gunnells]

I though ipso uses acme. Now its using same when I make more changes. But besides that I’m duplicating my efforts because secstore is supposed to read my keys?

> On Jul 26, 2020, at 1:37 PM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
>> Here is where I am. I have some script that checks the smtp/imap keys I have created in $home/lib/fact.keys
>> 
>> When I run this script it populates the keys into /mnt/factotum/ctl. So I’m happy about that
>> 
>> However it does not work in profile. I really don’t understand that
> 
> Two things:
> 
> 1) That's roughly what secstore does for you: It stores your
> keys securely, and factotum reads them on startup. It's ok
> to duplicate it, though -- secstore is another thing to set
> up, and if this works for you, lt's not worth the distraction.
> 
> 2) Are you running that script before or after you start
> factotum from your profile?
> 

Re: [9front] mail crazyness

[ori]

> The profile already had the following to begin with. 
> 
> webfs
> plumber
> upas/fs -n
> rio -i riostart

Also -- in my profile, that's under service=terminal,
so if you're using drawterm, you're not going to hit
that.

try echoing $service in your profile to see what's
going on.