Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Nils Becker]

> I'm not sure what changed in July that would cause the Google archive to
> stop updating. Probably the email for the group should be subscribed to the
> mailing list. Does anyone know who manages this archive? If the admin is no
> longer interested in maintaining it, I'm happy to take over.
> 

FWIW, previously the google groups archive was only partially useful:
many (but not all?) messages were set to auto-delete after two weeks.
also, although posting was possible, this would not actually post to the
upstream list, and gave a false impression that no-one answered.
effectively, it was just working as a kind of an rss reader.

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Ashish Agarwal]

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On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:12 AM, Nils Becker <
nils.becker@bioquant.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:

many (but not all?) messages were set to auto-delete after two weeks.
> also, although posting was possible, this would not actually post to the
> upstream list


I do recall the second of these, and I would make sure such mistakes are
not allowed (if I could manage to take on the administration). In any case,
I'm not particularly in favor of this as an archive, just willing to do the
few minutes of work required since it has been around for so many years.

It was also mentioned that GMANE has a good archive [1], so I'll go ahead
and link to that from ocaml.org.

[1] https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml.org/issues/699#issuecomment-139484115

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Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Xavier Leroy]

On 12/09/15 18:59, Ashish Agarwal wrote:
> It was also mentioned that GMANE has a good archive [1], so I'll go ahead
> and link to that from ocaml.org <http://ocaml.org>.
> [1] https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml.org/issues/699#issuecomment-139484115

It seems to have the same problem of messages expiring after 2 weeks.

There's always https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
(full archives since 09/1992, yeah!)

- Xavier Leroy

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Gabriel Scherer]

> There's always https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> (full archives since 09/1992, yeah!)

This archive is excellent in term of content, but it is an absolute
pain to use as an interface. My workflow to refer someone to a
mailing-list conversation I remember is to search for it in my
mailbox, find the posting date, and then navigate the archive from
this date.

The search feature in particular is completely unusable. For example I
recently wanted to refer to an old message of mine about the various
LLVM port, written in the thread about SystemZ. I find it absolutely
impossible to find this thread by searching for either LLVM or SystemZ
through the archive interface.

I have no idea who can tweak the list settings and whether this is
even possible (I somehow doubt that the search ability can be made to
work), but here is a minor change that would already considerably
improve the usability of the archive:
  getting rid of the paging of the month's threads
For example, august 2015 mailing-list threads are split between 9
pages which makes them unnecessarily painful to navigate.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Xavier Leroy <Xavier.Leroy@inria.fr> wrote:
> On 12/09/15 18:59, Ashish Agarwal wrote:
>> It was also mentioned that GMANE has a good archive [1], so I'll go ahead
>> and link to that from ocaml.org <http://ocaml.org>.
>> [1] https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml.org/issues/699#issuecomment-139484115
>
> It seems to have the same problem of messages expiring after 2 weeks.
>
> There's always https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> (full archives since 09/1992, yeah!)
>
> - Xavier Leroy
>
>
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Gabriel Scherer]

Thinking about it a bit more, I think most of my current
dissatisfaction with the current archive would go away if it was
indexed well-enough by external search engines. Currently a Google
search for "site:http://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list llvm
systemz" does not return any result, and it could be caused by the
fact that

  https://sympa.inria.fr/robots.txt

is

  User-agent: *
  Disallow: /

which asks web-indexing robots not to visit the website.

Would it be possible to change that setting?

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Gabriel Scherer
<gabriel.scherer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There's always https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> (full archives since 09/1992, yeah!)
>
> This archive is excellent in term of content, but it is an absolute
> pain to use as an interface. My workflow to refer someone to a
> mailing-list conversation I remember is to search for it in my
> mailbox, find the posting date, and then navigate the archive from
> this date.
>
> The search feature in particular is completely unusable. For example I
> recently wanted to refer to an old message of mine about the various
> LLVM port, written in the thread about SystemZ. I find it absolutely
> impossible to find this thread by searching for either LLVM or SystemZ
> through the archive interface.
>
> I have no idea who can tweak the list settings and whether this is
> even possible (I somehow doubt that the search ability can be made to
> work), but here is a minor change that would already considerably
> improve the usability of the archive:
>   getting rid of the paging of the month's threads
> For example, august 2015 mailing-list threads are split between 9
> pages which makes them unnecessarily painful to navigate.
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Xavier Leroy <Xavier.Leroy@inria.fr> wrote:
>> On 12/09/15 18:59, Ashish Agarwal wrote:
>>> It was also mentioned that GMANE has a good archive [1], so I'll go ahead
>>> and link to that from ocaml.org <http://ocaml.org>.
>>> [1] https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml.org/issues/699#issuecomment-139484115
>>
>> It seems to have the same problem of messages expiring after 2 weeks.
>>
>> There's always https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> (full archives since 09/1992, yeah!)
>>
>> - Xavier Leroy
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Daniel Bünzli]

Le lundi, 14 septembre 2015 à 07:46, Gabriel Scherer a écrit :
> Thinking about it a bit more, I think most of my current
> dissatisfaction with the current archive would go away if it was
> indexed well-enough by external search engines.

That wouldn't solve the broken threading though (paging, inability to follow-up over a month boundary). Gmane solves that incredibly complex problem so maybe the signature of the list should redirect there directly rather than to the broken sympa archives. However the gmane subscription should be tweaked a bit, e.g. it still mentions the old archives website and wasn't subject to the Great Renaming [1].

Also another problem is that simple google searches like "caml-list + keyword" often lead to the archives on the old site [2] which are semi-broken (e.g. no dates, end in 2010), would it maybe be possible to setup a redirect so that those no longer show up in the results ?  

Best,

Daniel


[1] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.caml.inria
[2] http://caml.inria.fr/pub/ml-archives/

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Anil Madhavapeddy]

On 14 Sep 2015, at 07:46, Gabriel Scherer <gabriel.scherer@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thinking about it a bit more, I think most of my current
> dissatisfaction with the current archive would go away if it was
> indexed well-enough by external search engines. Currently a Google
> search for "site:http://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list llvm
> systemz" does not return any result, and it could be caused by the
> fact that
> 
>  https://sympa.inria.fr/robots.txt
> 
> is
> 
>  User-agent: *
>  Disallow: /
> 
> which asks web-indexing robots not to visit the website.
> 
> Would it be possible to change that setting?
> 

If you can get a set of mbox files of the archives, we can set up a
mirror of the list on http://lists.ocaml.org with the complete
historical archives.

This is a Mailman-driven site, and so the templates can easily be
customised to improve the SEO indexing (which is pretty good by default).

I don't quite have the bandwidth to figure out the runes required to
get the mbox files, but injecting them into Mailman and keeping them
mirrored is fairly straightforward.

-anil

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Leo White]

> If you can get a set of mbox files of the archives, we can set up a
> mirror of the list on http://lists.ocaml.org with the complete
> historical archives.
>

You can get mbox files from the gmane archive at
http://gmane.org/export.php. I did it for caml-list a while ago but have
since misplaced the files. You have to do it in pieces since the gmane
export interface has a limit on the number of messages per request. The
gmane archive is also incomplete for the last few years (I suspect that
X-no-archive was changed at some point), so someone would need to find
those elsewhere.

Regards,

Leo

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Ashish Agarwal]

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I'm not sure what changed in July that would cause the Google archive to
stop updating. Probably the email for the group should be subscribed to the
mailing list. Does anyone know who manages this archive? If the admin is no
longer interested in maintaining it, I'm happy to take over.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Nils Becker <
nils.becker@bioquant.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:

> hi,
>
> > > if this is intentional, fine.
> > No need to take it personal
>
> sorry, i did not mean to sound aggressive, i was just trying to be
> brief. the google groups archive is mentioned here:
>
> ocaml.org/community/mailing_lists.html
>
> so if the archive is not updated anymore, that link should probably be
> taken down.
>
> n.
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>

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Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Francois Berenger]

On 09/06/2015 11:13 AM, Nils Becker wrote:
> hi,
>
>>> if this is intentional, fine.
>> No need to take it personal
>
> sorry, i did not mean to sound aggressive, i was just trying to be
> brief. the google groups archive is mentioned here:
>
> ocaml.org/community/mailing_lists.html
>
> so if the archive is not updated anymore, that link should probably be
> taken down.

Here is the archive I use for caml-list:

https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list/

-- 
Regards,
Francois.
"When in doubt, use more types"

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Nils Becker]

hi,

> > if this is intentional, fine.
> No need to take it personal

sorry, i did not mean to sound aggressive, i was just trying to be
brief. the google groups archive is mentioned here:

ocaml.org/community/mailing_lists.html

so if the archive is not updated anymore, that link should probably be
taken down.

n.

Re: [Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Mr. Herr]

On 05.09.2015 18:57, Nils Becker wrote:
> this is a relaunched email since last time there was no response: the
> google group fa.caml has not received any updates since the end of july.
> it looks like the google groups archive of the caml-list is dead. if
> this is intentional, fine.
No need to take it personal
> i find it unfortunate; if it's not
> unfortunate, could some list admin maybe have a look what's wrong?
>
> thanks!
>
Sorry I don't know about fa.caml, but I can tell you that caml-list@inria.fr is quite 
active and kicking.

See List of lists at http://ocaml.org/community/mailing_lists.html,
and / or search for ocaml groups on news.gmane.org (NNTP).

[Caml-list] google groups list archive

[Nils Becker]

this is a relaunched email since last time there was no response: the
google group fa.caml has not received any updates since the end of july.
it looks like the google groups archive of the caml-list is dead. if
this is intentional, fine. i find it unfortunate; if it's not
unfortunate, could some list admin maybe have a look what's wrong?

thanks!