Display X-Face and save space

Display X-Face and save space

[Kai Großjohann]

I thought it might be possible to save some space by doing the
following:

Display the X-Face to the right of the From header.
Don't make the From header line higher than other lines -- let the
bitmap extend below over the next few buffer lines.
Make sure that the first few headers to be displayed are short ones so
the X-Face extending downwards does not overlap the information from,
say, the Subject header.

Is this possible?
kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Raymond Scholz]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Display the X-Face to the right of the From header.
> Don't make the From header line higher than other lines -- let the
> bitmap extend below over the next few buffer lines.
> Make sure that the first few headers to be displayed are short ones so
> the X-Face extending downwards does not overlap the information from,
> say, the Subject header.

You are referring to Emacs 21, aren't you?  

This solution may be of some interest for Emacs 20 users: I use 20.7
and get the X-Faces displayed with xli.  Using sawfish as my window
manager, I have the ability to force the Emacs and xli window
appearing at fixed positions, xli without any window decoration at
topmost level.

Example: http://www.zonix.de/div/emacs-20.7+xface.png

Cheers,
  Ray
-- 
Raymond Scholz - rscholz@tzi.de - PGP - http://www.zonix.de/

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Kai Großjohann]

On 17 Sep 2000, Raymond Scholz wrote:

> You are referring to Emacs 21, aren't you?  

Yes, I use Emacs 21, but the same issue exists for XEmacs users --
XEmacs has been able to display pixmaps for some time now.

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Toby Speight]

0> In article <$.87u2bf9gyy.fsf@rscholz.dyndns.org>,
0> Raymond Scholz <URL:mailto:ray-2000@zonix.de> ("Raymond") wrote:

Raymond> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>> [stuff related to inline X-Face display]

Raymond> You are referring to Emacs 21, aren't you?

I'm using Emacs 20.7, and I get X-Face displayed in-line, thanks to
the bitmap-mule package (Debian stable).  I believe that XEmacs also
supports in-line faces (and has for a long time).

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Raymond Scholz]

Toby Speight <streapadair@gmx.net> writes:

> I'm using Emacs 20.7, and I get X-Face displayed in-line, thanks to
> the bitmap-mule package (Debian stable).  

Oh, thanks for pointing me at this package.  Gnus looks different now.

But there is an interaction problem with BBDB 2.2, it adds the faces
as names to the database.  And I understand Kai's difficulties with
the way the faces are being displayed.  But I can benefit from the
cool bitmap-mule stuff but have decent x-face support, if I use my old
gnus-article-x-face-command.

Cheers,
  Ray
-- 
Raymond Scholz - rscholz@tzi.de - PGP - http://www.zonix.de/

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Toby Speight]

0> In article <$.87vgvtoqvp.fsf@rscholz.dyndns.org>,
0> Raymond Scholz <URL:mailto:ray-2000@zonix.de> ("Raymond") wrote:

Raymond> But there is an interaction problem with BBDB 2.2, it adds
Raymond> the faces as names to the database.

(setq x-face-mule-highlight-x-face-position 'x-face) avoids that
symptom (without fixing the underlying problem).

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Dan Christensen]

Toby Speight <streapadair@gmx.net> writes:
> I'm using Emacs 20.7, and I get X-Face displayed in-line, thanks to
> the bitmap-mule package (Debian stable).  I believe that XEmacs also
> supports in-line faces (and has for a long time).

I've just installed bitmap-mule and xfonts-bitmap-mule;  now I get
empty boxes appearing where the x-face should appear.  Any ideas
what I need to fix?  (Emacs 20.7, Debian unstable.)

I have the uncompface and icontopbm programs installed.

Dan

-- 
Dan Christensen
jdc@julian.uwo.ca

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Roland Mas]

Dan Christensen (2000-09-18 12:48:23 -0400) :

> I've just installed bitmap-mule and xfonts-bitmap-mule;  now I get
> empty boxes appearing where the x-face should appear.  Any ideas
> what I need to fix?  (Emacs 20.7, Debian unstable.)

Same thing here.  I quit and restarted X, and all is fine.  I guess
there must be a way to tell X to reload its fonts
cache/database/whatever, but I opted for the simple-and-brutal way :-)
-- 
Roland Mas

 ar c   t  e l  l  iè    u   ai  i    a   mi    . 
  -- Signatures à collectionner, série n°1, partie 2/3.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Kai Großjohann]

On 18 Sep 2000, Roland Mas wrote:

> Same thing here.  I quit and restarted X, and all is fine.  I guess
> there must be a way to tell X to reload its fonts
> cache/database/whatever, but I opted for the simple-and-brutal way
> :-)

First of all, use `xset fp' to check the font path.  Use `xset +fp
/path/to/dir' to add a directory.  Use `xset fp rehash' to tell the X
server to update the cache.

Dunno what to do with font servers.

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Dan Christensen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> On 18 Sep 2000, Roland Mas wrote:
> 
> > Same thing here.  I quit and restarted X, and all is fine.  I guess
> > there must be a way to tell X to reload its fonts
> > cache/database/whatever, but I opted for the simple-and-brutal way
> > :-)
> 
> First of all, use `xset fp' to check the font path.  Use `xset +fp
> /path/to/dir' to add a directory.  Use `xset fp rehash' to tell the X
> server to update the cache.

I should have mentioned that I restarted X, but still X-faces are
not working.  I can view the fonts installed by xfonts-bitmap-mule
(e.g. -etl-fixed-medium-r-normal--16-120-100-100-m-80-bitmap.8x16-0)
with xfontsel (they are 1 pixel high, right?) and list them with
xlsfonts, but emacs can't find them.  My emacs buffers are multibyte.

Any other ideas of what I have to do?

(Emacs 20.7, current gnus, debian packages bitmap-mule and
xfonts-bitmap-mule installed.)

Dan

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Kai Großjohann]

What happens when you use S-down-mouse-1 to select the standard
fontset?

That's the last straw I've got.
kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Dan Christensen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> What happens when you use S-down-mouse-1 to select the standard
> fontset?

That was it, now it works.  Thanks, and sorry for the stupid
questions---I've only ever used emacs for ascii.

Dan

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Dave Love]

>>>>> "KG" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

 KG> Don't make the From header line higher than other lines -- let the
 KG> bitmap extend below over the next few buffer lines.

[...]

 KG> Is this possible?

Not in prerelease Emacs 21 (unless, perhaps, you went to the trouble
of displaying the image in strips at the right place on subsequent
lines and I'm not sure you could reliably determine their height).

I guess if X-Face is an annoyance, you can just turn it off and it's
not worth much effort.  That may sound rich coming from me, but I did
the image stuff mostly an exercise.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Kai Großjohann]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Dave Love wrote:

> I guess if X-Face is an annoyance, you can just turn it off and it's
> not worth much effort.  That may sound rich coming from me, but I
> did the image stuff mostly an exercise.

Well, I confess that I do find this thing pretty cool.

Hm.  Maybe something like the following would work?  Prepend each
header line with a few spaces in a specific face, and set the
background pixmap of that face to be the X-Face.  Would that work?

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Wes Hardaker]

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>>>>> On 18 Sep 2000 18:27:37 +0200, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) said:

Kai> Well, I confess that I do find this thing pretty cool.

If ya like that, you should turn on picons sometime :-)

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Steve Youngs]

* Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

>>>>>> On 18 Sep 2000 18:27:37 +0200, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) said:
Kai>  Well, I confess that I do find this thing pretty cool.

> If ya like that, you should turn on picons sometime :-)

Picons are cool except when some luser crossposts to 50 different
newsgroups and you end up with 3 pages of headers.  And you do need a
moderately quick machine otherwise reading mail/news will be
annoyingly slow.

-- 
|---<Regards, Steve Youngs>-----------[GnuPG KeyID: EFD82ED2]---|
|     It's a funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept    |
|          anything but the best, you very often get it         |
|-----------------------------<mailto:youngs_s@ozlinx.com.au>---|

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On 20 Sep 2000 10:36:37 +1000, Steve Youngs <youngs_s@ozlinx.com.au> said:

Steve> Picons are cool except when some luser crossposts to 50
Steve> different newsgroups and you end up with 3 pages of headers.

(setq gnus-picons-group-excluded-groups ".*") ; untested

Steve> And you do need a moderately quick machine otherwise reading
Steve> mail/news will be annoyingly slow.

Do you cache the picons locally on your machine?  You're not pulling
them from the search url are you [thats definitely slow].


-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Steve Youngs]

* Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

> (setq gnus-picons-group-excluded-groups ".*") ; untested

Wouldn't that match every group and thereby disable picons
altogether? 

Steve>  And you do need a moderately quick machine otherwise reading
Steve>  mail/news will be annoyingly slow.

> Do you cache the picons locally on your machine?  

Yep.  

I'm not having any problems with picons, I just mentioned the slowness
issue because on my old AMD K5 100MHz they were (slow).  But on my AMD
Athlon 800MHz... no problem. :-)

> You're not pulling them from the search url are you [thats
> definitely slow]. 

Hell no!

-- 
|---<Regards, Steve Youngs>-----------[GnuPG KeyID: EFD82ED2]---|
|     It's a funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept    |
|          anything but the best, you very often get it         |
|-----------------------------<mailto:youngs_s@ozlinx.com.au>---|

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On 23 Sep 2000 12:26:07 +1000, Steve Youngs <youngs_s@ozlinx.com.au> said:

Steve> * Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:
>> (setq gnus-picons-group-excluded-groups ".*") ; untested

Steve> Wouldn't that match every group and thereby disable picons
Steve> altogether? 

Yep.  But the From: line will still be right.  Just the newsgroup line 
won't be "piconified", which it sounded like was what you wanted
(roughly) to do.

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Dave Love]

>>>>> "WH" == Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

 WH> If ya like that, you should turn on picons sometime :-)

For what it's worth, that needs a copyright assignment to get into the
Emacs distribution, but as far as I remember, it depends on W3 anyway
so it won't go in now anyway.  I can provide an assignment form if
you'd like to donate it.

[There will be smilies for Emacs 21, though :-), as I re-did it,
simplified.  That might be merged back later.]

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:54:59 +0100, Dave Love <d.love@dl.ac.uk> said:

>>>>> "WH" == Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:
WH> If ya like that, you should turn on picons sometime :-)

Dave> For what it's worth, that needs a copyright assignment to get into the
Dave> Emacs distribution, but as far as I remember, it depends on W3 anyway
Dave> so it won't go in now anyway.  I can provide an assignment form if
Dave> you'd like to donate it.

Dave> [There will be smilies for Emacs 21, though :-), as I re-did it,
Dave> simplified.  That might be merged back later.]

You should redo the picons code too.  Actually, much of it was redone
by other people since I wrote the first implementation...  It could
probably use being scrapped and rewritten again.

You know, I really don't understand the copyright assignment issue.  I 
mean, if I release the code under the GPL then it should satisfy the
FSF.  Why they need to "own" the copyright makes no sense to me.
Filling out the form once wouldn't prevent me from writing more code
in the future to the same piece and that code wouldn't be owned by
them (unless they explicitly cover future modifications in their
form).

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Dave Love]

>>>>> "WH" == Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

 WH> You know, I really don't understand the copyright assignment
 WH> issue.  I mean, if I release the code under the GPL then it
 WH> should satisfy the FSF.

I don't speak for them, but the FSF is surely happy that you release
free software.  Thanks.

 WH> Why they need to "own" the copyright makes no sense to me.

I'm not sure making sense is relevant in law.  This is definitely
major grief for us as maintainers, but has to be taken seriously. :-(

The longstanding legal advice -- apparently not just to the FSF -- is
that for defence in court against violations of the licence there
should be a single copyright holder, or perhaps only a few.  I'm not
sure of the exact position; maybe all holders of copyright in a
combined work have to be involved.  In exceptional circumstances there
is a specific licence to the FSF instead of assignment.

By the way, the contract licenses the assigner to do as they like with
their contribution, so assigning loses nothing of practical
importance.  It's a legal technicality.

 WH> Filling out the form once wouldn't prevent me from writing more
 WH> code in the future to the same piece and that code wouldn't be
 WH> owned by them (unless they explicitly cover future modifications
 WH> in their form).

That's what it normally says.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:49:03 +0100, Dave Love <d.love@dl.ac.uk> said:

WH> Why they need to "own" the copyright makes no sense to me.

Dave> I'm not sure making sense is relevant in law.

Good point.

Dave> The longstanding legal advice -- apparently not just to the FSF
Dave> -- is that for defence in court against violations of the
Dave> licence there should be a single copyright holder, or perhaps
Dave> only a few.  I'm not sure of the exact position; maybe all
Dave> holders of copyright in a combined work have to be involved.  In
Dave> exceptional circumstances there is a specific licence to the FSF
Dave> instead of assignment.
...
WH> Filling out the form once wouldn't prevent me from writing more
WH> code in the future to the same piece and that code wouldn't be
WH> owned by them (unless they explicitly cover future modifications
WH> in their form).

Dave> That's what it normally says.

Yes, but what if I don't trust the FSF to always keep the copyright in
a form that I like it (GPLed).  If they own the copyright, they have
the right to stop distributing future changes made to it under the GPL
(the copyright owner is the *only* person that can do this.  The GPL
only protects *other* people from releasing it under a different
arrangement).

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Per Abrahamsen]

Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

> Yes, but what if I don't trust the FSF to always keep the copyright in
> a form that I like it (GPLed). 

In return for your copyright assignment, you receive a contract signed
by RMS stating that any future releases they make of your code will be
in the form of free software (formulated in a way a lawyer would
understood).  You can read the contract here:

        <URL: http://gcc.gnu.org/fsf-forms/assign.changes>

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 23:02:14 +0100, Dave Love <d.love@dl.ac.uk> said:

Dave> I think rms is smarter than most of us, takes serious legal
Dave> advice anyway, and has at least as much zeal for free software,
Dave> so I'm not bothered.

Everyone has a price, my friend...  RMS's is admittedly higher than
most.

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Dave Love]

>>>>> "WH" == Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

 WH> Everyone has a price, my friend...  RMS's is admittedly higher
 WH> than most.

Apart from being insulting, I don't see how that's relevant, but
obviously we need patronizing on such matters.

I don't see why the signed contract with an organization legally
constituted as a charity to uphold the freedom of software should be
somehow weaker in scenarios like rms going off the rails than your GPL
copyright notice.  In practice, most people probably couldn't defend
it in court anyway; the FSF can.

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[François Pinard]

[Dave Love]

> In practice, most people probably couldn't defend [...] in court anyway;
> the FSF can.

Sounds like a reasonable hypothesis, yet I do not think the FSF really went
in court yet (but I'm far from being aware of everything that goes on).
The truth might be that we do not really know if the FSF can.  We hope so!

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:46:05 +0100, Dave Love <d.love@dl.ac.uk> said:

WH> Everyone has a price, my friend...  RMS's is admittedly higher
WH> than most.

Dave> Apart from being insulting, I don't see how that's relevant, but
Dave> obviously we need patronizing on such matters.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh.  I'm merely playing a devil's
advocate more than anything else...

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: Display X-Face and save space

[Dave Love]

>>>>> "KG" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

 KG> Prepend each header line with a few spaces in a specific face,
 KG> and set the background pixmap of that face to be the X-Face.
 KG> Would that work?

Presumably it would work up to a point with fixed-pitch, fixed-height
faces, but I'm not going to do it!  Having pixmap backgrounds for
faces is being worked on.