storing messages into an mbox file

storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Hi,

how can I move messages into an mbox file (which I will use for
spamassassin to learn once there are enough messages in it)?

I tried to create a foreign group with G f and found out that it's not
possible to move messages into that group.  It also doesn't seem
possible to get rid of the nndoc group I created.  How do I remove the
group and all references to it which might be saved somewhere?


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Andreas Schwab]

lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:

> how can I move messages into an mbox file (which I will use for
> spamassassin to learn once there are enough messages in it)?

O m runs the command gnus-summary-save-article-mail, which is an
interactive compiled Lisp function in `gnus-sum.el'.

It is bound to C-o, O m, <menu-bar> <Article> <Output> <Save in Unix mail
format...>.

(gnus-summary-save-article-mail &optional ARG)

Append the current article to a Unix mail box file.
If N is a positive number, save the N next articles.
If N is a negative number, save the N previous articles.
If N is nil and any articles have been marked with the process mark,
save those articles instead.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:
>
>> how can I move messages into an mbox file (which I will use for
>> spamassassin to learn once there are enough messages in it)?
>
> O m runs the command gnus-summary-save-article-mail, which is an
> interactive compiled Lisp function in `gnus-sum.el'.
>
> It is bound to C-o, O m, <menu-bar> <Article> <Output> <Save in Unix mail
> format...>.
>
> (gnus-summary-save-article-mail &optional ARG)
>
> Append the current article to a Unix mail box file.
> If N is a positive number, save the N next articles.
> If N is a negative number, save the N previous articles.
> If N is nil and any articles have been marked with the process mark,
> save those articles instead.

Thank you!  It works, though it isn't too great because it's asking for
each and every article where to save it rather than saving all articles
that are marked with the process mark to the same file.  It also leaves
to delete the save articles afterwards.

Isn't there a better way to do this?


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Andreas Schwab]

Perhaps you want to G m (gnus-group-make-group) a group with the nnmbox
backend, then B m (gnus-summary-move-article) the articles in there.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

this group and gnu.emacs.gnus (was: Re: storing messages into an mbox file)

[Emanuel Berg]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> Perhaps you want to G m (gnus-group-make-group)
> a group with the nnmbox backend, then
> B m (gnus-summary-move-article) the articles
> in there.

I have noticed there are some messages appearing here
that don't appear in gnu.emacs.gnus. However when
I write on gnu.emacs.gnus those messages appear here.

Does that mean people have been replying here on my
posts in gnu.emacs.gnus, i.e. replies I have been
unaware of? If so, I hope no one has been affronted by
seemingly being constantly ignored :)

Or is it my Gnus that discards identical messages?
But if so, why do some appear on gnu.emacs.gnus rather
than none at all (as all would be duplicates)?

Can anyone clarify this? Should I use this group
instead of gnu.emacs.gnus?

Also, I also post on gnu.emacs.help and many other
groups. Are they "superset" groups for that (them) as
well on gmane? Is there a hidden empire I have yet
to enter?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> Perhaps you want to G m (gnus-group-make-group) a group with the nnmbox
> backend, then B m (gnus-summary-move-article) the articles in there.

That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
to delete nndoc groups.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Eric Abrahamsen]

lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:

> Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:
>
>> Perhaps you want to G m (gnus-group-make-group) a group with the nnmbox
>> backend, then B m (gnus-summary-move-article) the articles in there.
>
> That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
> to delete nndoc groups.

I haven't found a way yet :)

Presumably you could close gnus, and edit the newsrc.eld file by hand.
That's usually a sign that you're doing something wrong, but in this
case I don't know what the alternative is!

Eric

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Andreas Schwab]

lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:

> That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
> to delete nndoc groups.

G DEL (gnus-group-delete-group) should do it.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:
>
>> That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
>> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
>> to delete nndoc groups.
>
> G DEL (gnus-group-delete-group) should do it.

nndoc groups cannot be deleted that way.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:
>
>> Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:
>>
>>> Perhaps you want to G m (gnus-group-make-group) a group with the nnmbox
>>> backend, then B m (gnus-summary-move-article) the articles in there.
>>
>> That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
>> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
>> to delete nndoc groups.
>
> I haven't found a way yet :)

Maybe that's a missing feature ...

> Presumably you could close gnus, and edit the newsrc.eld file by hand.
> That's usually a sign that you're doing something wrong, but in this
> case I don't know what the alternative is!

Unfortunately, that file isn't very editing-friendly.

Now I have over a hundred spam messages in nnmbox:spam.  But where is
the mbox file they are in?  I wanted to feed it to sa-learn and couldn't
find it.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Adam Sjøgren]

lee writes:

>>> That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
>>> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
>>> to delete nndoc groups.

>> I haven't found a way yet :)

> Maybe that's a missing feature ...

Don't they disappear if you kill them with C-k ?

> Now I have over a hundred spam messages in nnmbox:spam.  But where is
> the mbox file they are in?  I wanted to feed it to sa-learn and couldn't
> find it.

Maybe somewhere in ~/Mail/ ?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Unfortunately, much of the Web is like an anthill           Adam Sjøgren
  built by ants on LSD"                                  asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Eric Abrahamsen]

lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:
>>
>>> Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps you want to G m (gnus-group-make-group) a group with the nnmbox
>>>> backend, then B m (gnus-summary-move-article) the articles in there.
>>>
>>> That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
>>> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
>>> to delete nndoc groups.
>>
>> I haven't found a way yet :)
>
> Maybe that's a missing feature ...
>
>> Presumably you could close gnus, and edit the newsrc.eld file by hand.
>> That's usually a sign that you're doing something wrong, but in this
>> case I don't know what the alternative is!
>
> Unfortunately, that file isn't very editing-friendly.

Most definitely not!

> Now I have over a hundred spam messages in nnmbox:spam.  But where is
> the mbox file they are in?  I wanted to feed it to sa-learn and couldn't
> find it.

That ought to be a group parameter: try hitting "G p" on the group
itself. You're looking for "nnmbox-mbox-file". It's possible I'm
confused about this and it's actually a server setting, in which case go
into the *Server* buffer and hit "S" on the server in question.

Hope that helps,
Eric

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> lee writes:
>
>>>> That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
>>>> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
>>>> to delete nndoc groups.
>
>>> I haven't found a way yet :)
>
>> Maybe that's a missing feature ...
>
> Don't they disappear if you kill them with C-k ?

They disappear from the group list in the group buffer, and the files
remain on disk.

Apparently Gnus saves information like that forever instead of allowing
you to actually delete something.  I want these groups deleted,
including the files.  Should I make a bug report?

>> Now I have over a hundred spam messages in nnmbox:spam.  But where is
>> the mbox file they are in?  I wanted to feed it to sa-learn and couldn't
>> find it.
>
> Maybe somewhere in ~/Mail/ ?

nope


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:
>
>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>
>>> lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:
>>>
>>>> Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you want to G m (gnus-group-make-group) a group with the nnmbox
>>>>> backend, then B m (gnus-summary-move-article) the articles in there.
>>>>
>>>> That might work better, thanks.  But how do I get rid of the groups I
>>>> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
>>>> to delete nndoc groups.
>>>
>>> I haven't found a way yet :)
>>
>> Maybe that's a missing feature ...
>>
>>> Presumably you could close gnus, and edit the newsrc.eld file by hand.
>>> That's usually a sign that you're doing something wrong, but in this
>>> case I don't know what the alternative is!
>>
>> Unfortunately, that file isn't very editing-friendly.
>
> Most definitely not!
>
>> Now I have over a hundred spam messages in nnmbox:spam.  But where is
>> the mbox file they are in?  I wanted to feed it to sa-learn and couldn't
>> find it.
>
> That ought to be a group parameter: try hitting "G p" on the group
> itself. You're looking for "nnmbox-mbox-file".

That gives me a buffer with timestamp information.

> It's possible I'm confused about this and it's actually a server
> setting, in which case go into the *Server* buffer and hit "S" on the
> server in question.

... gives me a buffer with '(nnmbox: "")' in it

I don't even have a file called "*spam*" which could be relevant, and I
searched my whole home directory with find for it.  There are mails in
that group, just no place where they are stored.  What kind of magic is
that?


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Dan Christensen]

lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:

> But how do I get rid of the groups I
> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
> to delete nndoc groups.

`C-u G DEL' deletes editable groups, and `C-k' deletes others.

Dan

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Adam Sjøgren]

lee writes:

>> Don't they disappear if you kill them with C-k ?

> They disappear from the group list in the group buffer, and the files
> remain on disk.

Didn't you just say that you didn't know where the file on disk was?

[...]

>> Maybe somewhere in ~/Mail/ ?

> nope

Where did you find it then?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "The forensic marvel has reduced my logic to shambles."       Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Dan Christensen <jdc@uwo.ca> writes:

> lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:
>
>> But how do I get rid of the groups I
>> already created in order to figure this out?  There has to be some way
>> to delete nndoc groups.
>
> `C-u G DEL' deletes editable groups, and `C-k' deletes others.

Apparently, C-k only hides them from the list, and nothing is being
deleted.


Is it possible that this nnmbox:spam group is some sort of virtual
group?  The messages in it seem to be there as files like
'Incoming26421Ilm' rather than in an mbox file.

Any idea what's going wrong here?


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> lee writes:
>
>>> Don't they disappear if you kill them with C-k ?
>
>> They disappear from the group list in the group buffer, and the files
>> remain on disk.
>
> Didn't you just say that you didn't know where the file on disk was?

That's only for the nnmbox group, the nndoc groups seems to have files.

> [...]
>
>>> Maybe somewhere in ~/Mail/ ?
>
>> nope
>
> Where did you find it then?

They appear to be in single files named "Incoming*" and not in an mbox
file.

I need them in an mbox file so that I can feed them to sp-learn.


Sometimes gnus is really awful --- if I can't do this without creating
unremovable groups and great fuss, perhaps it's time to use a different
MUA.  As much as I like gnus, it always has quirks like this which make
life extremely difficult, and I really don't have time for this.  You
can't even have more than one account without messing everything up
badly, and all sorts of deleted stuff remains forever :(


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Adam Sjøgren]

lee writes:

> They appear to be in single files named "Incoming*" and not in an mbox
> file.

The ~/Mail/Incoming* files are copies of email that Gnus has imported -
these are generated by development versions of Gnus as a safety feature
in case email is lost due to a new bug:

,----[ C-h v mail-source-delete-incoming RET ]
| mail-source-delete-incoming is a variable defined in `mail-source.el'.
| Its value is 10
| 
| Documentation:
| If non-nil, delete incoming files after handling.
| If t, delete immediately, if nil, never delete.  If a positive number, delete
| files older than number of days.
| 
| Removing of old files happens in `mail-source-callback', i.e. no
| old incoming files will be deleted unless you receive new mail.
| You may also set this variable to nil and call
| `mail-source-delete-old-incoming' interactively.
`----

(I don't think they are related to your task at hand.)

> Sometimes gnus is really awful --- if I can't do this without creating
> unremovable groups and great fuss, perhaps it's time to use a different
> MUA.

It is always good to reevaluate your options and choose the tool that
suits you the best.

> As much as I like gnus, it always has quirks like this which make life
> extremely difficult, and I really don't have time for this.

Then you certainly shouldn't spend it.

> You can't even have more than one account without messing everything
> up badly, and all sorts of deleted stuff remains forever :(

Multiple accounts work fine for me; I use spam.el to train my
spam-filter of choice (crm114) [note however that spam.el isn't trivial
to set up, as it is _very_ generalized], but email *is* a very personal
thing, and everybody wants it handled in a different way.

Best of luck in finding something that works for you!


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Where there's a will, there's a won't"                      Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Eric S Fraga]

On Saturday,  9 May 2015 at 16:49, lee wrote:

[...]

> Sometimes gnus is really awful

I sympathise.  I have had feelings like this in the dim past.  Every
time I did, I switched to another MUA (pine, mutt, Thunderbird, gmail,
even Outlook very briefly) only to come back when I hit the limitations
of the other MUAs.  Only mutt lasted for more than a few months, and
that was because I could use Emacs easily as the composition editor.

gnus is frustrating because it is *so* completely adaptable.  You can
tune it to your needs no matter what those needs may be, in my
experience.  The problem is figuring it all out.  This list is brilliant
for this!

But, of course, you should use what works for you!

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 25.0.50.1 + Ma Gnus v0.12 + evil-git-4892acc
: BBDB version 3.1.2 (2014-05-06 11:45:08 -0500)

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk>:

> I sympathise.  I have had feelings like this in the dim past.  Every
> time I did, I switched to another MUA (pine, mutt, Thunderbird, gmail,
> even Outlook very briefly) only to come back when I hit the
> limitations of the other MUAs.  Only mutt lasted for more than a few
> months, and that was because I could use Emacs easily as the
> composition editor.

One thing that always annoys me in another MUA is the lack of search
when I need it.  

In Gnus I can always use emacs' full text search capabilities in any
buffer (articles, summaries and groups).  And I have full regexp replace
without entering complicated dialog boxes when composing messages.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Eric S Fraga]

On Tuesday, 12 May 2015 at 10:06, Steinar Bang wrote:

[...]

> In Gnus I can always use emacs' full text search capabilities in any
> buffer (articles, summaries and groups).  And I have full regexp replace
> without entering complicated dialog boxes when composing messages.

In fact, it is often the (same and complete) regexp capabilities that
cut across so many functions (searching, scoring, splitting, styles)
that makes gnus win out over all other MUAs.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.4.1 + Ma Gnus v0.12 + evil-git-bdeb602
: BBDB version 3.1.2 (2014-04-27 15:05:20 -0500)

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Saturday,  9 May 2015 at 16:49, lee wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Sometimes gnus is really awful
>
> I sympathise.  I have had feelings like this in the dim past.  Every
> time I did, I switched to another MUA (pine, mutt, Thunderbird, gmail,
> even Outlook very briefly) only to come back when I hit the limitations
> of the other MUAs.  Only mutt lasted for more than a few months, and
> that was because I could use Emacs easily as the composition editor.

I've used mutt for over 15 years or so and was glad to get away from its
limits.

> gnus is frustrating because it is *so* completely adaptable.  You can

It is frustrating that gnus insists on storing obsolete data, doesn't
let me delete groups I created and refuses to tell me where the mails
are stored.

> tune it to your needs no matter what those needs may be, in my
> experience.  The problem is figuring it all out.  This list is brilliant
> for this!

I'm finding this mailing list not very helpful.  Sometimes I don't get
answers at all, sometimes the result is that nobody knows or that it's a
missing feature or capability or that it's too complicated to be used.
Getting answers that actually help solving the problem at hand are
pretty rare.

Now I can't even find out where the mails are stored, how to delete
obsolete groups and how to make sure that the data gnus uses is clean.
These are very simple and basic questions, with no answers to them.

> But, of course, you should use what works for you!

Maybe I should go back to mutt, but I'd have to convert all my email
back to maildir --- or perhaps use gnus merely as an archive.  In any
case, I'd prefer to find a solution to these questions so that I don't
need to switch.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Adam Sjøgren]

lee writes:

> I'm finding this mailing list not very helpful.

Sometimes you get what you put in.

> Now I can't even find out where the mails are stored, how to delete
> obsolete groups and how to make sure that the data gnus uses is clean.
> These are very simple and basic questions, with no answers to them.

If they are really simple and basic, how come you don't answer them?

If I knew the answers, or if I cared enough to investigate and happened
to find the answer, I would tell you. I think that goes for everybody here.

But frankly, I personally don't feel like going the extra mile to help
someone who apparantly thinks "threatening" to drop Gnus is a good way
to ask for help.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Hvad er Linux? En telefon?"                                 Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Dan Christensen]

lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:

> Now I can't even find out where the mails are stored, how to delete
> obsolete groups and how to make sure that the data gnus uses is clean.
> These are very simple and basic questions, with no answers to them.

As far as I've seen, your questions have been answered:

`C-u G DEL' deletes editable groups, and `C-k' deletes others
(such as nndoc and nndir groups, which are groups where Gnus
never changes the content).

The Incoming files you thought were remnants of a group are just
temporary files stored by development versions of Gnus.

If those don't completely answer your questions, you'll have to
give specific information:

What groups can't you delete?  What backend do they use?
Where are the files that you think aren't being deleted?

Dan

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> lee <lee@yagibdah.de>:

> I'm finding this mailing list not very helpful.  Sometimes I don't get
> answers at all, sometimes the result is that nobody knows or that it's a
> missing feature or capability or that it's too complicated to be used.

Gnus is a program with a long history, it has aggregated a lot of
different mail and "mail" backends in its time.  I suspect that only a
few of them are in actual use.

I also suspect that the reason you don't get any answers is that you are
using stuff that nobody else uses, and that the reason you are getting
trouble is that no developer has touched the code in a long time.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Dan Christensen <jdc@uwo.ca>:

> The Incoming files you thought were remnants of a group are just
> temporary files stored by development versions of Gnus.

The Incoming* files also only appear if you are pulling mail into local
Gnus mail folders, I think...?  Either by reading from the
/var/mail/yourmailbox (old style unix mbox), by using POP3 or when using
IMAP as an advanced POP3 (ie. not using nnimap).

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[e.fraga]

On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 22:07, lee wrote:

[...]

> I'm finding this mailing list not very helpful.

Sorry to hear this.

> Now I can't even find out where the mails are stored,

Well, there are really only two places to look in my experience: ~/News
and ~/Mail.  I don't have any mail stored locally (ignoring for the
moment my use of the agent) as all of my mail and news are on external
servers (imap and nntp).  In any case, why does this matter?  Apologies
if this has already been asked...  Use gnus and let it store emails
where it wishes?

> How to delete obsolete groups

Simply unsubscribe and don't get hung up with the fact that the group is
still present in the data structures.  This won't interfere in any way.

> and how to make sure that the data gnus uses is clean.

I am not sure what this means.

> These are very simple and basic questions, with no answers to them.

Maybe you don't like the answers, which is your option of course.

It could also be that you are trying to have gnus behave like those
other MUAs and that path is not the easiest...

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.4.1 + Ma Gnus v0.12 + evil-git-bdeb602
: BBDB version 3.0.50 (2013-11-16 11:30:49 -0600)

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> lee writes:
>
>> I'm finding this mailing list not very helpful.
>
> Sometimes you get what you put in.
>
>> Now I can't even find out where the mails are stored, how to delete
>> obsolete groups and how to make sure that the data gnus uses is clean.
>> These are very simple and basic questions, with no answers to them.
>
> If they are really simple and basic, how come you don't answer them?

If I knew the answers or could find them, I wouldn't need to ask.

> If I knew the answers, or if I cared enough to investigate and happened
> to find the answer, I would tell you. I think that goes for everybody here.

Yes, and I assume that the problem is that nobody knows.  So every now
and then, there is a question and you can already expect that nobody
knows the answer to it.  At some point, what else can you do but switch
to another software that provides the functionality you need.

> But frankly, I personally don't feel like going the extra mile to help
> someone who apparantly thinks "threatening" to drop Gnus is a good way
> to ask for help.

I'm not threatening, it's merely the way it is.  When you cannot figure
out anymore where your software stores your data, there is no other
option than not to use that software anymore and to migrate the data you
can still find.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Dan Christensen <jdc@uwo.ca> writes:

> lee <lee@yagibdah.de> writes:
>
>> Now I can't even find out where the mails are stored, how to delete
>> obsolete groups and how to make sure that the data gnus uses is clean.
>> These are very simple and basic questions, with no answers to them.
>
> As far as I've seen, your questions have been answered:
>
> `C-u G DEL' deletes editable groups, and `C-k' deletes others
> (such as nndoc and nndir groups, which are groups where Gnus
> never changes the content).

C-k doesn't delete groups, it only hides them, and speaking of "killing"
a group is misleading here.  It does not delete the files the messages
are in.  C-u G DEL seems to leave files behind as well, like the
directories the messages of the group were in.

This is untidy and a bug.  When I delete a group, it needs to be
deleted, including the files and directories and whatever data gnus
stores about it.

> The Incoming files you thought were remnants of a group are just
> temporary files stored by development versions of Gnus.

Who knows, perhaps it will keep these files because they have been
assigned to an mbox.

> If those don't completely answer your questions, you'll have to
> give specific information:
>
> What groups can't you delete?  What backend do they use?

I don't know any groups that could actually be deleted, no matter what
backend they use.

> Where are the files that you think aren't being deleted?

They are in ~/Mail.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

>>>>>> lee <lee@yagibdah.de>:
>
>> I'm finding this mailing list not very helpful.  Sometimes I don't get
>> answers at all, sometimes the result is that nobody knows or that it's a
>> missing feature or capability or that it's too complicated to be used.
>
> Gnus is a program with a long history, it has aggregated a lot of
> different mail and "mail" backends in its time.  I suspect that only a
> few of them are in actual use.
>
> I also suspect that the reason you don't get any answers is that you are
> using stuff that nobody else uses, and that the reason you are getting
> trouble is that no developer has touched the code in a long time.

Nobody else uses spamassassin or nnmbox or nnml or IMAP?  What are ppl
using then, POP3 or direct delivery and maildir?


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[lee]

<e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 22:07, lee wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I'm finding this mailing list not very helpful.
>
> Sorry to hear this.
>
>> Now I can't even find out where the mails are stored,
>
> Well, there are really only two places to look in my experience: ~/News
> and ~/Mail.


find ~/Mail -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -P25 '1646470000-ESJAOVLHYNDBICIWEYCWL@nv9.arabhorse.co'
/home/lee/Mail/Incoming26421YHe:Message-ID: <1646470000-ESJAOVLHYNDBICIWEYCWL@nv9.arabhorse.com>

find ~/News/ -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -P25 '1646470000-ESJAOVLHYNDBICIWEYCWL@nv9.arabhorse.co'
/home/lee/News/drafts/drafts/#4#:/home/lee/Mail/Incoming26421YHe:Message-ID: <1646470000-ESJAOVLHYNDBICIWEYCWL@nv9.arabhorse.com>


The second one is this message.  These are the only findings.  So where
did gnus put the mbox file?

> I don't have any mail stored locally (ignoring for the
> moment my use of the agent) as all of my mail and news are on external
> servers (imap and nntp).  In any case, why does this matter?  Apologies
> if this has already been asked...

I don't store mail on external servers.

> Use gnus and let it store emails where it wishes?

You need to tell it where to store it and where to get it from.  When
you don't know anymore where your software stores its data, it's time to
use different software.

>> How to delete obsolete groups
>
> Simply unsubscribe and don't get hung up with the fact that the group is
> still present in the data structures.  This won't interfere in any way.

Of course it interferes.  It leaves dead entries and dead files around,
and having them around wastes resources and makes things more difficult
to maintain because of the bloat it creates.

>> and how to make sure that the data gnus uses is clean.
>
> I am not sure what this means.

It means not to leave stuff around that has been deleted.

Just imagine you delete files from your disk, and instead of deleting
them, the firmware of the disk decides to keep them around indefinitely
and to hide them instead.  You might say these files won't interfere and
might soon be surprised that your disk is suddenly full or that in case
of a disk failure and an attempt to recover the data, all the files you
deleted are getting in the way, making the recovery impossible or more
expensive.

But why do you bother?  Just let the disk handle the data the way it
wants and keep buying new ones all the time ...


Software has to keep the data it stores clean, and part of the
software's purpose is to keep the data under the control of the
user. When it doesn't do that, the software is buggy and needs to be
fixed, or another software must be used.

>> These are very simple and basic questions, with no answers to them.
>
> Maybe you don't like the answers, which is your option of course.

So far, nobody has said where the mails I moved into an nnmbox group are
stored.

> It could also be that you are trying to have gnus behave like those
> other MUAs and that path is not the easiest...

I'm merely trying to use a feature of gnus --- mbox support --- in that
I want to store some messages in an mbox file to feed that to
sa-learn.

Perhaps this isn't possible.  In that case, gnus shouldn't claim to
support mbox.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Eric S Fraga]

On Sunday, 17 May 2015 at 11:40, lee wrote:

[...]

> The second one is this message.  These are the only findings.  So where
> did gnus put the mbox file?

Well, according to the documentation, the default location for an nnmbox
backend is ~/mbox.  Have you looked there?

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 25.0.50.1 + Ma Gnus v0.14 + evil-git-ff74cfb
: BBDB version 3.1.2 (2014-05-06 11:45:08 -0500)

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> lee <lee@yagibdah.de>:

> Nobody else uses spamassassin or nnmbox or nnml or IMAP?

I use spamassassin on the server, I've never used nnmbox and I don't
think many people does these days.  

I use IMAP all the time but probably not in the way you do.

> What are ppl using then, POP3 or direct delivery and maildir?

Based on my own sample of one, it's nntp and nnimap these days.

When I still used local mail storage, I used nnml, and at the time I
used it was the recommended mail backend to use.  No idea if it still
is.

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Peter Münster]

On Sun, May 17 2015, lee wrote:

> Nobody else uses spamassassin or nnmbox or nnml or IMAP?

Hi,

I use imap -> fetchmail -> postfix -> procmail -> spamassassin -> nnml

-- 
           Peter

Re: storing messages into an mbox file

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Apr 29 2015, lee <lee@yagibdah.de> wrote:
>>> how can I move messages into an mbox file (which I will use for
>>> spamassassin to learn once there are enough messages in it)?
>>
>> O m runs the command gnus-summary-save-article-mail, which is an
>> interactive compiled Lisp function in `gnus-sum.el'.
>>
>> It is bound to C-o, O m, <menu-bar> <Article> <Output> <Save in Unix mail
>> format...>.
>>
>> (gnus-summary-save-article-mail &optional ARG)
>>
>> Append the current article to a Unix mail box file.
>> If N is a positive number, save the N next articles.
>> If N is a negative number, save the N previous articles.
>> If N is nil and any articles have been marked with the process mark,
>> save those articles instead.
>
> Thank you!  It works, though it isn't too great because it's asking for
> each and every article where to save it rather than saving all articles
> that are marked with the process mark to the same file.  It also leaves
> to delete the save articles afterwards.
>
> Isn't there a better way to do this?

Certainly, just set gnus-prompt-before-saving to something other than
'always.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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