* Incorporate message-utils.el? @ 2002-09-12 11:55 Kai Großjohann 2002-09-12 13:24 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-12 11:55 UTC (permalink / raw) WIBNI message-utils were autoloaded and mentioned in the menus and in the keybindings by default? Any takers? kai -- ~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn (Frank Nobis) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-12 11:55 Incorporate message-utils.el? Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-12 13:24 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-12 13:35 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2002-09-12 13:24 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, Sep 12 2002, Kai Großjohann wrote: > WIBNI message-utils were autoloaded and mentioned in the menus and in > the keybindings by default? ACK. > Any takers? For me, it's not clear how to do it. At first, I thought, that it would be enough to add "(require 'message-utils)" and merge the menu entries and key-bindings to `message.el' (eventually adjust the key-bindings to the given conventions). But Holger Schauer (the original author of message-utils) wrote [1], that e.g. functions like `message-strip-subject-was' should be integrated directly into the function building the subject and _not_ be called add a hook afterwards. Bye, Reiner. [1] In de.comm.software.gnus: ,----[ news:<whn0x6ulbj.fsf@ipanema.coling.uni-freiburg.de> ] | Eigentlich sollte eine Funktionalitaet wie message-strip-subject-was | direkt in der Funktion integriert sein, die das Subject baut und | nicht als Hook hintendran aufgerufen werden. Es gibt noch mehr | Kleinigkeiten in dieser Richtung. `---- -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-12 13:24 ` Reiner Steib @ 2002-09-12 13:35 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-09-12 20:12 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-12 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: > For me, it's not clear how to do it. At first, I thought, that it > would be enough to add "(require 'message-utils)" and merge the menu > entries and key-bindings to `message.el' (eventually adjust the > key-bindings to the given conventions). Maybe it's enough to add autoload cookies to message-utils.el. Or maybe move the defuns to message.el. > But Holger Schauer (the original author of message-utils) wrote [1], > that e.g. functions like `message-strip-subject-was' should be > integrated directly into the function building the subject and _not_ > be called add a hook afterwards. Hm. It's a point. Would you like to do that? kai -- ~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn (Frank Nobis) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-12 13:35 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-12 20:12 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-12 23:43 ` Daniel Pittman ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2002-09-12 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, Sep 12 2002, Kai Großjohann wrote: > Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: >> [...] I thought, that it would be enough to add "(require >> 'message-utils)" and merge the menu entries and key-bindings to >> `message.el' (eventually adjust the key-bindings to the given >> conventions). > Maybe it's enough to add autoload cookies to message-utils.el. Or > maybe move the defuns to message.el. >> [...] functions like `message-strip-subject-was' should be >> integrated directly into the function building the subject and _not_ >> be called add a hook afterwards. > > Hm. It's a point. Would you like to do that? Sorry, I don't think that I'm able to do what Holger suggested, or I didn't understand it ;-), see (c) below. My knowledge about the control flow in Gnus (and about lisp in general) is probably not sufficient. What *I* could do is: (a) move the defuns to message.el or/and add autoload cookies to message-utils.el. (b) add the menu entries and key-bindings. I suppose this has to be done in `message.el' no matter whether or not we put all functions in `message.el' or leave them in `message-utils.el'. (c) put the function call of `message-strip-subject-was' to the spot in `message.el' where `message-header-setup-hook' is called. Would this be enough? (d) What about the behavior of `message-strip-subject-was'? Should it be enabled by default? I'd suggest the following (I just added the behavior described in the doc-string to the function `message-strip-subject-was' and it works for me): --8<------------------------schnipp------------------------->8--- (defcustom message-strip-subject-was 'ask "*What to do with trailing \"(was: <old subject>)\" in subject lines. If nil, leave the subject unchanged. If it is the symbol `ask', ask the use what do do. If it is t, always strip the trailing old subject. See the variable `message-subject-was-regexp' how an old subject may look like." [...] :group 'message-various) --8<------------------------schnapp------------------------->8--- I could do it, if people think that this makes sense. But I don't want to spend time on this, if it's unclear how the Gnus developers want it to be done. What do you (Kai or others) suggest? Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-12 20:12 ` Reiner Steib @ 2002-09-12 23:43 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-09-13 5:25 ` Mark Trettin 2002-09-13 13:15 ` Kai Großjohann 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Daniel Pittman @ 2002-09-12 23:43 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Reiner Steib wrote: > On Thu, Sep 12 2002, Kai Großjohann wrote: >> Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: [...] >>> [...] functions like `message-strip-subject-was' should be >>> integrated directly into the function building the subject and _not_ >>> be called add a hook afterwards. [...] > (d) What about the behavior of `message-strip-subject-was'? Should it > be enabled by default? No, absolutely not. Modifying data without the user asking for it to be modified is not a good thing. At the very least default to asking, not just doing. Daniel -- like torches in the aeon flow even suns flicker and die forgotten as the ages grow eternity is not for you -- Covenant, _Flux_ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-12 20:12 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-12 23:43 ` Daniel Pittman @ 2002-09-13 5:25 ` Mark Trettin 2002-09-13 13:15 ` Kai Großjohann 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Mark Trettin @ 2002-09-13 5:25 UTC (permalink / raw) * On: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:12:25 +0200 Reiner Steib writes: > On Thu, Sep 12 2002, Kai Großjohann wrote: >> Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: [...] >>> [...] functions like `message-strip-subject-was' should be >>> integrated directly into the function building the subject and _not_ >>> be called add a hook afterwards. >> >> Hm. It's a point. Would you like to do that? [...] > (d) What about the behavior of `message-strip-subject-was'? Should it > be enabled by default? I'd suggest the following (I just added the > behavior described in the doc-string to the function > `message-strip-subject-was' and it works for me): IMHO the default should be `ask'. [...] bye Mark -- Mark Trettin · Aachen · Germany · Where is Aachen? --> N: 50°46' E: 06°05' BOFH excuse #159: Stubborn processes ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-12 20:12 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-12 23:43 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-09-13 5:25 ` Mark Trettin @ 2002-09-13 13:15 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-09-13 15:14 ` Reiner Steib 2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-13 13:15 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: > What *I* could do is: > > (a) move the defuns to message.el or/and add autoload cookies to > message-utils.el. Good. > (b) add the menu entries and key-bindings. I suppose this has to be > done in `message.el' no matter whether or not we put all functions > in `message.el' or leave them in `message-utils.el'. I think so. Good. > (c) put the function call of `message-strip-subject-was' to the spot > in `message.el' where `message-header-setup-hook' is called. Would > this be enough? There should be a function which creates the subject by putting "Re:" in front of it. So search for the spot where it puts "Re:" in front of the subject and then make hooks that frob the subject correspondingly. What do you think? kai -- ~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn (Frank Nobis) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-13 13:15 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-13 15:14 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-13 15:32 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2002-09-13 15:14 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, Sep 13 2002, Kai Großjohann wrote: > There should be a function which creates the subject by putting "Re:" > in front of it. So search for the spot where it puts "Re:" in front > of the subject Ah, I see. One in `message-reply' and the other in `message-followup'. > and then make hooks that frob the subject correspondingly. Okay, I think I have to do something similar to this line: (setq subject (concat "Re: " (message-strip-subject-re subject))) > What do you think? I'll try to do it. Concerning item (d) of my previous message (default behavior strip or not strip the was:...-part) there are different opinions. So I think we need a user-variable for it at least. Whether the default of this variable should be 'ask or nil (never do a change) can be decided by the person committing the patch if we cannot find a consensus on this. ;-) Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-13 15:14 ` Reiner Steib @ 2002-09-13 15:32 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-09-16 18:01 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-13 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: > On Fri, Sep 13 2002, Kai Großjohann wrote: > >> and then make hooks that frob the subject correspondingly. > > Okay, I think I have to do something similar to this line: > > (setq subject (concat "Re: " (message-strip-subject-re subject))) One suggestion: invoke message-make-reply-subject instead, and do something like (defcustom message-make-reply-subject-functions '(message-strip-subject-re message-util-strip-was) "Some useful docstring" ...other.custom.stuff...) (defun message-make-reply-subject (subject) (let ((funcs message-make-reply-subject-functions)) (while funcs (setq subject (funcall (pop funcs) subject))) subject)) >> What do you think? > > I'll try to do it. > > Concerning item (d) of my previous message (default behavior strip or > not strip the was:...-part) there are different opinions. So I think > we need a user-variable for it at least. Whether the default of this > variable should be 'ask or nil (never do a change) can be decided by > the person committing the patch if we cannot find a consensus on > this. ;-) How about message-make-reply-subject-functions? With a suitably clever :type declaration, users could easily switch on/off a list of known functions and also add their own. kai -- ~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn (Frank Nobis) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-13 15:32 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-16 18:01 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-16 19:32 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-12-29 17:21 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2002-09-16 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, Sep 13 2002, Kai Großjohann wrote: > Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: [...] > One suggestion: invoke message-make-reply-subject instead, and do > something like > > (defcustom message-make-reply-subject-functions > '(message-strip-subject-re message-util-strip-was) > "Some useful docstring" > ...other.custom.stuff...) > > (defun message-make-reply-subject (subject) > (let ((funcs message-make-reply-subject-functions)) > (while funcs > (setq subject (funcall (pop funcs) subject))) > subject)) Sorry Kai, I haven't received your message in time before I started to change `message.el' (I had no net connection during the weekend), but I think we can always add your suggestion later. Up to now, I'm scrupling, because of the following (but I guess you will convince me finally ;-) ): - It would allow the user to produce strange subject like "Antwort: Re: ..." very easily. :-( - Currently, I have the following code: (defun message-reply [...] (when gnus-list-identifiers (setq subject (message-strip-list-identifiers subject))) (setq subject (concat "Re: " (message-strip-subject-re subject))) (when message-subject-trailing-was-query (setq subject (message-strip-subject-trailing-was subject))) Should `message-strip-list-identifiers' be in `message-make-reply-subject-functions' too? Then m-s-l-i has to check for `gnus-list-identifiers' and we call m-s-l-i even if g-l-i is nil. For `message-strip-subject-trailing-was' it's similar: m-s-s-t-w does nothing when m-s-t-w-q is nil. - Assume we add new functions later and the user has changed the default. If he used add-to-list it should be okay. What about customize? Does it respect the (changed) default or does it apply the (old) saved value? (Sorry, I don't use customize, so I don't know.) Okay, what I have done so far is the following ,----[ *Draft* for the ChangeLog entry ] | * message.el (message-strip-subject-trailing-was, | message-change-subject, message-add-archive-header, | message-xpost-fup2-header, message-xpost-insert-note, | message-xpost-fup2, message-reduce-to-to-cc): New functions | adopted from message-utils.el. Add functions to the keymap (TODO: | in mode describtion) and menu. | (message-change-subject,message-xpost-fup2): Signal error if | current header is empty. | (message-xpost-insert-note): Changed insert position. | (message-archive-note): Ensure to insert note in message body. | (message-archive-header, message-archive-note, | message-xpost-default, message-xpost-note, message-fup2-note, | message-xpost-note-function): New variables adopted from | message-utils.el. Changed some doc-strings. | (message-mark-insert-{begin,end}): Rename from | message-{begin,end}-inserted-text-mark (message-utils.el), changed | values. | (message-subject-trailing-was-query, | message-subject-trailing-was-ask-regexp, | message-subject-trailing-was-regexp): New variables. | (message-to-list-only): Changed doc-string, added menu entry. `---- As I moved everything to `message.el', `message-utils.el' can be removed. I'm not sure where to put the menu entries for the functions. Which commands should be in the "Field" and which in the "Message" menu? I would suggest to put commands acting on the headers of the message to "Field" and others to "Message": "Field" menu: ["To" message-goto-to t] ["From" message-goto-from t] ["Subject" message-goto-subject t] + ["Change subject" message-change-subject t] ["Cc" message-goto-cc t] + ["Bcc" message-goto-bcc t] + ["Fcc" message-goto-fcc t] ["Reply-To" message-goto-reply-to t] + "----" + ;; (typical) news stuff ["Summary" message-goto-summary t] ["Keywords" message-goto-keywords t] ["Newsgroups" message-goto-newsgroups t] ["Followup-To" message-goto-followup-to t] - ["Mail-Followup-To" message-goto-mail-followup-to t] + ;; ["Followup-To (with note in body)" message-xpost-fup2 t] + ["Crosspost / Followup-To" message-xpost-fup2 t] ["Distribution" message-goto-distribution t] + ["X-No-Archive:" message-add-archive-header t ] + "----" + ;; (typical) mailing-lists stuff + ["Send to list only" message-to-list-only t] + ["Mail-Followup-To" message-goto-mail-followup-to t] + ["Reduce To: to Cc:" message-reduce-to-to-cc t] + "----" ["Body" message-goto-body t] ["Signature" message-goto-signature t])) "Message" menu: + ["Insert Region Marked" message-mark-inserted-region + ["Insert File Marked" message-mark-insert-file But apparently, this is not the convention we have. Looking at the manual, I found "Flag As (Un)important" in <info://message/Header+Commands> and "Request Receipt" in <info://message/Insertion>, though both are in the "Message" menu. I'm confused. Could somebody explain the convention? Now the key bindings: It's related to the previous question. If we consider e.g. `message-change-subject' as a "Field"-command, it should have a `C-c C-f' prefix, right? I'd suggest these: + (define-key message-mode-map "\C-c\C-fs" 'message-change-subject) + (define-key message-mode-map "\C-c\C-fx" 'message-xpost-fup2) + (define-key message-mode-map "\C-c\C-ft" 'message-reduce-to-to-cc) + (define-key message-mode-map "\C-c\C-fa" 'message-add-archive-header) + (define-key message-mode-map "\C-c\M-m" 'message-mark-inserted-region) + (define-key message-mode-map "\C-c\M-f" 'message-mark-insert-file) Other suggestions for the key bindings, anyone? If nobody has objections, I will also change the mode description (add the key bindings) and the manual (describing the new functions and key bindings). I didn't attach the patch to this message, because it's not complete as long the above mentioned items are unclear for me. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-16 18:01 ` Reiner Steib @ 2002-09-16 19:32 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-12-29 17:21 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2002-09-16 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: > Sorry Kai, I haven't received your message in time before I started to > change `message.el' (I had no net connection during the weekend), but > I think we can always add your suggestion later. Up to now, I'm > scrupling, because of the following (but I guess you will convince me > finally ;-) ): It's the other way round, I guess. Read on. > - Currently, I have the following code: > > (defun message-reply [...] > (when gnus-list-identifiers > (setq subject (message-strip-list-identifiers subject))) > (setq subject (concat "Re: " (message-strip-subject-re subject))) > (when message-subject-trailing-was-query > (setq subject (message-strip-subject-trailing-was subject))) > > Should `message-strip-list-identifiers' be in > `message-make-reply-subject-functions' too? Then m-s-l-i has to > check for `gnus-list-identifiers' and we call m-s-l-i even if g-l-i > is nil. For `message-strip-subject-trailing-was' it's similar: > m-s-s-t-w does nothing when m-s-t-w-q is nil. This code looks good. It convinced me: this seems to be the right way to do it. Also, it appears to blend well with the gnus-treat-* variables which provide a similar interface for article treatment (though I don't know whether the implementation is similar). > - Assume we add new functions later and the user has changed the > default. If he used add-to-list it should be okay. What about > customize? Does it respect the (changed) default or does it apply > the (old) saved value? (Sorry, I don't use customize, so I don't > know.) This is the same for all list variables in Emacs, so it's not an argument, I think. Eventually, all these cases should be resolved in the same way. The current proposals from the emacs-devel list are: (a) Create two variables, one which contains the system-provided stuff and a variable for the user which is always empty by default. (b) Some nifty diff-list feature by Alex Schroeder (I think) which augments Customize. Then, Customize can remember items-to-add to, and items-to-remove from, the standard variable value. > Okay, what I have done so far is the following All of it looks good. It's useless to argue about little details ahead of time; they can still be changed if the users scream of agony... Good job! kai -- ~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn (Frank Nobis) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Incorporate message-utils.el? 2002-09-16 18:01 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-16 19:32 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2002-12-29 17:21 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2002-12-29 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes: > + ;; ["Followup-To (with note in body)" message-xpost-fup2 t] A style note -- in Lisp, we don't abbreviate words¹. There's a gazillion possible abbreviations for "cross-post", but there's only one way to write it correctly. Could you fix the function names? -------- ¹) Unless we do, of course. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-12-29 17:21 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2002-09-12 11:55 Incorporate message-utils.el? Kai Großjohann 2002-09-12 13:24 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-12 13:35 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-09-12 20:12 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-12 23:43 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-09-13 5:25 ` Mark Trettin 2002-09-13 13:15 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-09-13 15:14 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-13 15:32 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-09-16 18:01 ` Reiner Steib 2002-09-16 19:32 ` Kai Großjohann 2002-12-29 17:21 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
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