Gnus 5.10?

Gnus 5.10?

[Kai Großjohann]

What do people think about releasing 5.10?  It's been a while since
5.8...  (And before Lars gets back to his life again :-)
-- 
Ambibibentists unite!

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Henrik Enberg]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> What do people think about releasing 5.10?  It's been a while since
> 5.8...  (And before Lars gets back to his life again :-)

I think the agent download issue needs to be fixed first.  I remember
Kevin saying that he had something semi-working going on.

(B.T.W. kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de bounces for me.  Is it
correct?)

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> What do people think about releasing 5.10?  It's been a while since
> 5.8...  (And before Lars gets back to his life again :-)

But...  but...  I haven't done the Oort Gnus t-shirts yet!  :-)

How about a few more Oort releases, and then do the t-shirts and 5.10
in, er, June?  I'm, like, so good at following time schedules and
stuff. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Karl Kleinpaste]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> But...  but...  I haven't done the Oort Gnus t-shirts yet!  :-)

5.0 -> 5.2:   6 months
5.2 -> 5.4:   8 months
5.4 -> 5.6:  14 months
5.6 -> 5.8:  21 months
5.8 -> 5.10: already 3 years and not yet released

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[David S Goldberg]

>>>>> On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:28:04 -0500, Karl Kleinpaste <karl@charcoal.com> said:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>> But...  but...  I haven't done the Oort Gnus t-shirts yet!  :-)

> 5.0 -> 5.2:   6 months
> 5.2 -> 5.4:   8 months
> 5.4 -> 5.6:  14 months
> 5.6 -> 5.8:  21 months
> 5.8 -> 5.10: already 3 years and not yet released

Really?  According to the CVS log, Oort 0.01 was released in December
2000, making it just a drop over two years.  Too bad pterodactyl
didn't wait one extra month, though.  If it had, then 3 years would be
the expected progression anyway :-)
-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[A.J. Rossini]

>>>>> "karl" == Karl Kleinpaste <karl@charcoal.com> writes:

    karl> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
    >> But...  but...  I haven't done the Oort Gnus t-shirts yet!  :-)

    karl> 5.0 -> 5.2:   6 months
    karl> 5.2 -> 5.4:   8 months
    karl> 5.4 -> 5.6:  14 months
    karl> 5.6 -> 5.8:  21 months
    karl> 5.8 -> 5.10: already 3 years and not yet released

Isn't exponential (in this case, maybe more like factorial) growth
wonderful?  

5.10 -> 5.12 predicted in decades, at this point...

-- 
A.J. Rossini				Rsrch. Asst. Prof. of Biostatistics
U. of Washington Biostatistics		rossini@u.washington.edu	
FHCRC/SCHARP/HIV Vaccine Trials Net	rossini@scharp.org
-------------- http://software.biostat.washington.edu/ ----------------
FHCRC: M: 206-667-7025 (fax=4812)|Voicemail is pretty sketchy/use Email
UW:   Th: 206-543-1044 (fax=3286)|Change last 4 digits of phone to FAX
(my tuesday/wednesday/friday locations are completely unpredictable.)

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

David S Goldberg <david.goldberg6@verizon.net> writes:

>> 5.0 -> 5.2:   6 months
>> 5.2 -> 5.4:   8 months
>> 5.4 -> 5.6:  14 months
>> 5.6 -> 5.8:  21 months
>> 5.8 -> 5.10: already 3 years and not yet released
>
> Really?  According to the CVS log, Oort 0.01 was released in December
> 2000, making it just a drop over two years.

Hm...  The ChangeLog says:

2001-04-14 00:48:42  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@quimby.gnus.org>

	* gnus.el: Oort Gnus v0.01 is released.


However, it took quite a while to get from 5.8 to Oort 0.1, so Karl's
schedule is probably correct...

Yup:

Fri Dec  3 20:09:41 1999  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@menja.ifi.uio.no>

	* gnus.el: Pterodactyl Gnus v5.8.1 is released.

Back in the previous millennium, even.        
        
> Too bad pterodactyl didn't wait one extra month, though.  If it had,
> then 3 years would be the expected progression anyway :-)

:-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Kai Großjohann]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>
>> What do people think about releasing 5.10?  It's been a while since
>> 5.8...  (And before Lars gets back to his life again :-)
>
> But...  but...  I haven't done the Oort Gnus t-shirts yet!  :-)

If you release 5.10 soonish, then you get to do No Gnus t-shirts.
That's cool, isn't it?
-- 
Ambibibentists unite!

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[David S Goldberg]

I guess I looked in the wrong place.  I did a cvs log on
lisp/Changelog and down towards the bottom I found this

2000-12-19 18:00:00  ShengHuo ZHU  <zsh@cs.rochester.edu>

        * gnus.el (gnus-version):
        (gnus-version-number): Set to Oort Gnus 0.01.

        * gnus-art.el (gnus-mime-security-button-map):
        (gnus-insert-mime-security-button): Fix for Emacs21.

But I see I should have looked at the Changelog in the top level
directory.  Oh well.
-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> If you release 5.10 soonish, then you get to do No Gnus t-shirts.
> That's cool, isn't it?

Yeah, but I've had the design for Oort Gnus shirts ready for over a
year.  :-/

Of course, I could just do the Oort shirts right now, but it's winter
and not very t-shirty...  (Except for those parts of the world where
it's not winter.)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

While touching up the Oort Gnus t-shirt design (which is based on
X-Faces), I see that I don't have faces for the following of the
people who have CVS write access:

Jesper Harder
Pavel Janík (well -- unless you want the penguin to represent you)
Kevin Greiner
TSUCHIYA Masatoshi
Steve Youngs (unless the XEmacs picture is representative :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Pavel Janík]

   From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
   Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 22:26:58 +0100

   > Pavel Janík (well -- unless you want the penguin to represent you)

I do not have problem with it ;-)
-- 
Pavel Janík

Fine.  We all know Linus is a bastard.
                  -- Eric S. Raymond in LKML

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Pavel@Janik.cz (Pavel Janík) writes:

>    > Pavel Janík (well -- unless you want the penguin to represent you)
>
> I do not have problem with it ;-)

Ok.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Jesper Harder]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> While touching up the Oort Gnus t-shirt design (which is based on
> X-Faces), I see that I don't have faces for the following of the
> people who have CVS write access:
>
> Jesper Harder

Here it is.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Steve Youngs]

|--==> "LMI" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

  LMI> While touching up the Oort Gnus t-shirt design (which is based on
  LMI> X-Faces), I see that I don't have faces for the following of the
  LMI> people who have CVS write access:

  LMI> Steve Youngs (unless the XEmacs picture is representative :-)

Good enough for me. :-)

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 10D5C9C5>---|
|            XEmacs - It's not just an editor.             |
|                    It's a way of life.                   |
|------------------------------------<youngs@xemacs.org>---|

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steve Youngs <youngs@xemacs.org> writes:

>   LMI> Steve Youngs (unless the XEmacs picture is representative :-)
>
> Good enough for me. :-)

Ok.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Kai Großjohann]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Of course, I could just do the Oort shirts right now, but it's winter
> and not very t-shirty...  (Except for those parts of the world where
> it's not winter.)

That means you have the chance to do sweaters, which I would prefer :-)
The (black) Red sweater is getting a bit old already...
-- 
Ambibibentists unite!

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Frank Schmitt]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> What do people think about releasing 5.10?  It's been a while since
> 5.8...  (And before Lars gets back to his life again :-)

There should definitely be a 5.10 NOW. Have a look at the FAQ I just
wrote and see at how many places there's a "If you use Oort do X, if you
use 5.8.8, you lose" and I didn't even mention everywhere the easier or
better solution for Oort.

An other point: For me it becomes more difficult from day to day to help
Newbies because you always have to look "is this new in Oort" and if it
is invent the wheel a second time.

If there is stuff which people want to include but which isn't written
yet, put it in 5.10.1 or release a 5.10 now and a 6.0 in summer when the
now existing features are tested and the new ones are written, but hell
please, please sugar please release now and not in six month as I'm sure
that this six month will become 12 in the end.

Finally I don't really see why not to release no, it's just a say 3 week
feature freeze where people look in the dark places if stuff still
works, everything is documented and a posting to gnu.emacs.gnus if
everything is done.

So, make me a pleasure for sitting two weeks over the new FAQ and give
me the possibility to delete

|This version is very stable and should be the choice for all
|beginners. However 5.8.8 is quite old, so many people today use the BETA
|version from CVS called Oort Gnus, which contains a huge amount of new
|features.

and replace it with

|\\(5.10\\|6.0\\) is released! Get the best Gnus of all times, including
|tons of new exciting and wonderful features which make all other MUAs
|and NUAs look like childrens toys.

And if I didn't convince you yet: Delete your Oort and work with 5.10
for the next two weeks and think about if it's really nice to let the
normal user miss the features you are then probably missing:

-Anti Spam functionality
-Reworked Agent
-New possibilities for Gnus summary line especially thread trees
-New possibilities for rendering HTML mails
-Easy inclusion of X-Faces
-/N and /O in summary buffer
-Integration of groups.google.com
-New article washing functions especially Outlook deuglify
-A working interface to pgp
-Better handling of ISO-8859-x

to name the ones I couldn't live anymore without.

-- 
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Frank Schmitt]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Of course, I could just do the Oort shirts right now, but it's winter
> and not very t-shirty...  (Except for those parts of the world where
> it's not winter.)

We are computer freaks, there are no seasons for us. 

-- 
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Simon Josefsson]

Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> writes:

> -Anti Spam functionality
> -Reworked Agent
> -New possibilities for Gnus summary line especially thread trees
> -New possibilities for rendering HTML mails
> -Easy inclusion of X-Faces
> -/N and /O in summary buffer
> -Integration of groups.google.com
> -New article washing functions especially Outlook deuglify
> -A working interface to pgp
> -Better handling of ISO-8859-x

Only one of those was mentioned in GNUS-NEWS...  I tried to add them.
Here is the current NEWS file for Oort -- is it really complete?

* Changes in Oort Gnus

** Improved anti-speam features.

** Easy inclusion of X-Faces headers.

** In the summary buffer, the new command / N inserts new messages and
/ o inserts old messages.

** Gnus decodes morse encoded messages if you press W m.

** Unread count correct in nnimap groups.

The estimated number of unread articles in the group buffer should now
be correct for nnimap groups.  This is achieved by calling
`nnimap-fixup-unread-after-getting-new-news' from the
`gnus-setup-news-hook' (called on startup) and
gnus-after-getting-new-news-hook. (called after getting new mail).  If
you have modified those variables from the default, you may want to
add n-f-u-a-g-n-n again.  If you were happy with the estimate and want
to save some (minimal) time when getting new mail, remove the
function.

** Group Carbon Copy (GCC) quoting

To support groups that contains SPC and other weird characters, groups
are quoted before they are placed in the Gcc: header.  This means
variables such as `gnus-message-archive-group' should no longer
contain quote characters to make groups containing SPC work.  Also, if
you are using the string "nnml:foo, nnml:bar" (indicating Gcc into two
groups) you must change it to return the list ("nnml:foo" "nnml:bar"),
otherwise the Gcc: line will be quoted incorrectly.  Note that
returning the string "nnml:foo, nnml:bar" was incorrect earlier, it
just didn't generate any problems since it was inserted directly.

** ~/News/overview/ not used.

As a result of the following change, the ~/News/overview/ directory is
not used any more.  You can safely delete the entire hierarchy.

** gnus-agent

The Gnus Agent has seen a major updated and is now enabled by default,
and all nntp and nnimap servers from gnus-select-method and
gnus-secondary-select-method are agentized by default. Earlier only
the server in gnus-select-method was agentized by the default, and the
agent was disabled by default.  When the agent is enabled, headers are
now also retrieved from the Agent cache instead of the backends when
possible. Earlier this only happened in the unplugged state.  You can
enroll or remove servers with `J a' and `J r' in the server buffer.
Gnus will not download articles into the Agent cache, unless you
instruct it to do so, though, by using `J u' or `J s' from the Group
buffer.  You revert to the old behaviour of having the Agent disabled
with `(setq gnus-agent nil)'.  Note that putting (gnus-agentize) in
~/.gnus is not needed any more.

** gnus-summary-line-format

The default value changed to "%U%R%z%I%(%[%4L: %-23,23f%]%) %s\n".
Moreover gnus-extra-headers, nnmail-extra-headers and
gnus-ignored-from-addresses changed their default so that the users
name will be replaced by the recipient's name or the group name
posting to for NNTP groups.

** deuglify.el (gnus-article-outlook-deuglify-article)

A new file from Raymond Scholz <rscholz@zonix.de> for deuglifying
broken Outlook (Express) articles.

** (require 'gnus-load)

If you use a stand-alone Gnus distribution, you'd better add (require
'gnus-load) into your ~/.emacs after adding the Gnus lisp directory
into load-path.

File gnus-load.el contains autoload commands, functions and variables,
some of which may not be included in distributions of Emacsen.

** gnus-slave-unplugged

A new command which starts gnus offline in slave mode.

** message-insinuate-rmail

Adding (message-insinuate-rmail) and (setq mail-user-agent
'gnus-user-agent) in .emacs convinces RMAIL to compose, reply and
forward messages in message-mode, where you can enjoy the power of
MML.

** message-minibuffer-local-map

The line below enables BBDB in resending a message:

(define-key message-minibuffer-local-map [(tab)] 'bbdb-complete-name)

** Externalize attachments.

If gnus-gcc-externalize-attachments (or
message-fcc-externalize-attachments) is non-nil, attach local files as
external parts.

Command gnus-mime-save-part-and-strip (bound to \C-o on MIME buttons)
saves a part and replaces the part with an external one. It works only
on back ends that support editing.

** gnus-default-charset

The default value is determined from the current-language-environment
variable, instead of 'iso-8859-1. Also the ".*" item in
gnus-group-charset-alist is removed.

** gnus-posting-styles

Add a new format of match like

        ((header "to" "larsi.*org")
         (Organization "Somewhere, Inc."))

The old format like the lines below is obsolete.

        (header "to" "larsi.*org"
         (Organization "Somewhere, Inc."))

** message-ignored-news-headers and message-ignored-mail-headers

X-Draft-From and X-Gnus-Agent-Meta-Information have been added into
these two variables. If you customized those, perhaps you need add
those two headers too.

** Gnus reads the NOV and articles in the Agent if plugged.

If one reads an article while plugged, and the article already exists
in the Agent, it won't get downloaded once more.  (setq
gnus-agent-cache nil) reverts to the old behavior.

** Gnus supports the "format=flowed" (RFC 2646) parameter.

On composing messages, it is enabled by `use-hard-newlines'.  Decoding
format=flowed was present but not documented in earlier versions.

** Gnus supports the generation of RFC 2298 Disposition Notification requests.

This is invoked with the C-c M-n key binding from message mode.

** Gnus supports Maildir groups.

Gnus includes a new backend nnmaildir.el.

** Printing capabilities are enhanced.

Gnus supports Muttprint natively with O P from the Summary and Article
buffers.  Also, each individual MIME part can be printed using p on
the MIME button.

** Message supports the Importance: (RFC 2156) header.

In the message buffer, C-c C-f C-i or C-u cycles through the valid values.

** Gnus supports Cancel Locks in News.

This means a header "Cancel-Lock" is inserted in news posting. It is
used to determine if you wrote a article or not (for
cancelling/superseding).  The behaviour can be changed by customizing
`message-insert-canlock'.

** Gnus supports server-side mail filtering using Sieve.

Sieve rules can be added as Group Parameters for groups, and the
complete Sieve script is generated using `D g' from the Group buffer,
and then uploaded to the server using `C-c C-l' in the generated Sieve
buffer.  Search the online Gnus manual for "sieve", and see the new
Sieve manual, for more information.

** Extended format specs.

Format spec "%&user-date;" is added into
gnus-summary-line-format-alist.  Also, user defined extended format
specs are supported.  The extended format specs look like "%u&foo;",
which invokes function gnus-user-format-function-foo.  Because "&" is
used as the escape character, old user defined format "%u&" is no
longer supported.

** `/ *' (gnus-summary-limit-include-cached) is rewritten.

It was aliased to `Y c' (gnus-summary-insert-cached-articles). The new
function filters out other articles.

** Group names are treated as UTF-8 by default.

This is supposedly what USEFOR wants to migrate to.  See
`gnus-group-name-charset-group-alist' and
`gnus-group-name-charset-method-alist' for customization.

** The nnml and nnfolder backends store marks for each groups.

This makes it possible to take backup of nnml/nnfolder servers/groups
separately of .newsrc.eld, while preserving marks.  It also makes it
possible to share articles and marks between users (without sharing
the .newsrc.eld file) within e.g. a department.  It works by storing
the marks stored in .newsrc.eld in a per-group file ".marks" (for
nnml) and "groupname.mrk" (for nnfolder, named "groupname").  If the
nnml/nnfolder is moved to another machine, Gnus will automatically use
the .marks or .mrk file instead of the information in .newsrc.eld.
The new server variables `nnml-marks-is-evil' and
`nnfolder-marks-is-evil' can be used to disable this feature.

** The menu bar (in Group and Summary buffer) named "Misc" has been
renamed to "Gnus".

** The menu bar (in Message mode) named "MML" has been renamed to
"Attachments".

** gnus-group-charset-alist and gnus-group-ignored-charsets-alist.

The regexps in these variables are compared with full group names
instead of real group names in 5.8.  Users who customize these
variables should change those regexps accordingly. For example:

   ("^han\\>" euc-kr) -> ("\\(^\\|:\\)han\\>" euc-kr)

** Gnus supports PGP (RFC 1991/2440), PGP/MIME (RFC 2015/3156) and
** S/MIME (RFC 2630-2633).
It needs an external S/MIME and OpenPGP implementation, but no additional
lisp libraries.

** Gnus inlines external parts (message/external).

** MML (Mime compose) prefix changed from `M-m' to `C-c C-m'.

This change was made to avoid conflict with the standard binding of
`back-to-indentation', which is also useful in message mode.

** Bug fixes.

X-Faces in elisp WAS: Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Ami Fischman]

Hi there,

Is there an elisp package out there (for emacs 21) that will do the job of
uncompface purely in lisp?  The recent conversation about X-faces for the
gnus shirt finally got me to check x-faces out, and they're nice and all,
but I don't like having the extra binary lying around for this purpose
alone.  If the job could be done in elisp in a reasonable (negligible)
amount of time, I'd be happy with that.

Cheers,
-- 
  Ami Fischman
  usenet@fischman.org

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Frank Schmitt]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> writes:
>
>> -Anti Spam functionality
>> -Reworked Agent
>> -New possibilities for Gnus summary line especially thread trees
>> -New possibilities for rendering HTML mails
>> -Easy inclusion of X-Faces
>> -/N and /O in summary buffer
>> -Integration of groups.google.com
>> -New article washing functions especially Outlook deuglify
>> -A working interface to pgp
>> -Better handling of ISO-8859-x
>
> Only one of those was mentioned in GNUS-NEWS...  I tried to add them.
> Here is the current NEWS file for Oort -- is it really complete?

No.

Tuned summary generation
nnslashdot working again (AFAIK)
Smilies in GNU Emacs
Sender header now not generated by default (AFAIK)
Large parts of message-utils (or everything?) included, e.g. automatic
  cutting off of (was: foobar)

Come to mind without looking at Changelog.

-- 
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Michael Shields]

In article <r8bszyy9.fsf@hschmi22.userfqdn.rz-online.de>,
Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> wrote:
> If there is stuff which people want to include but which isn't written
> yet, put it in 5.10.1 or release a 5.10 now and a 6.0 in summer when the
> now existing features are tested and the new ones are written, but hell
> please, please sugar please release now and not in six month as I'm sure
> that this six month will become 12 in the end.

I would have to agree.

But is that the reason not to release now -- that new features need to
be added?  Oort seems to have, well, a few new features already.

Or is there something important that isn't considered stable yet?
-- 
Shields.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Bill White]

On Sat Jan 04 2003 at 10:02, Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> said:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
>> Of course, I could just do the Oort shirts right now, but it's
>> winter and not very t-shirty...  (Except for those parts of the
>> world where it's not winter.)
>
> We are computer freaks, there are no seasons for us.

Seasons?  That's what I put in my spaghetti sauce.  It's always 72F
and flourescently sunny in the cubefarm..

Cheers -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wri.com/billw
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 04 Jan 2003, usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net wrote:
> And if I didn't convince you yet: Delete your Oort and work with 5.10
> for the next two weeks and think about if it's really nice to let the
> normal user miss the features you are then probably missing:
> 
> -Anti Spam functionality
> 
> to name the ones I couldn't live anymore without.

If you mean spam.el, the newest stuff *needs* to be documented
before 5.10 is released, because there's lots of new functionality
and the old functionality is changed in a lot of places.  On the
other hand, I've been waiting for user feedback on my additions to
the spam.el corpus, especially as far as confusing variable names or
incorrectly implemented functionality, so I didn't want to start
writing documentation that would be obsolete in a few days.

Also, I would like to know if anyone is interested in integrating
spam-stat.el with spam.el.  spam-stat.el is basically an Elisp naive
Bayesian filter.  Currently it's separate from spam.el but it should
be possible to integrate them given user interest.

Let's set a date for the 5.10 release, and I'll set a date 10 days
before that for a spam.el feature freeze.  I should be able to
revise the Spam section of the manual.

Thanks
Ted

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Simon Josefsson]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> If you mean spam.el, the newest stuff *needs* to be documented
> before 5.10 is released, because there's lots of new functionality
> and the old functionality is changed in a lot of places.  On the
> other hand, I've been waiting for user feedback on my additions to
> the spam.el corpus, especially as far as confusing variable names or
> incorrectly implemented functionality, so I didn't want to start
> writing documentation that would be obsolete in a few days.

One style comment: I see lots of lines that are over 80 characters
wide nowadays (spam.el, gnus-agent.el).  Perhaps the style guidelines
changed, if so I'll readjust my emacs width.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> That means you have the chance to do sweaters, which I would prefer :-)

That's true...  Hm.

The problem is that most sweaters have a texture that's coarser than
t-shirts which makes the detailing on the X-Face based design
difficult to deal with.

I could do a new, simpler design, and do the X-Face one on the No
Gnus shirt.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> One style comment: I see lots of lines that are over 80 characters
> wide nowadays (spam.el, gnus-agent.el).  Perhaps the style guidelines
> changed, if so I'll readjust my emacs width.

No, all lines should still be under 80 characters wide...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: X-Faces in elisp WAS: Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ami Fischman <usenet@fischman.org> writes:

> Is there an elisp package out there (for emacs 21) that will do the job of
> uncompface purely in lisp?  The recent conversation about X-faces for the
> gnus shirt finally got me to check x-faces out, and they're nice and all,
> but I don't like having the extra binary lying around for this purpose
> alone.  If the job could be done in elisp in a reasonable (negligible)
> amount of time, I'd be happy with that.

If I remember correctly, the compface algorithm isn't very pretty.
It's possible that uncompface.el could be written easily -- I haven't
looked at that at all.  Sounds like a nice project for somebody.  :-)

The uncompface binary is teensy, though.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: X-Faces in elisp WAS: Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Simon Josefsson]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> If I remember correctly, the compface algorithm isn't very pretty.
> It's possible that uncompface.el could be written easily -- I haven't
> looked at that at all.  Sounds like a nice project for somebody.  :-)

There is a Debian package x-face-el which seem to contain elisp for
converting x-faces into something else.  Several copyright holders
though...

Re: X-Faces in elisp WAS: Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> There is a Debian package x-face-el which seem to contain elisp for
> converting x-faces into something else.  Several copyright holders
> though...

It kinda looks like it just calls uncompface to do the actual
decoding, though.  (From a cursory look at the libraries -- they're
big!) 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Malcolm Purvis]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

Lars> Of course, I could just do the Oort shirts right now, but it's winter
Lars> and not very t-shirty...

Where I'm sitting it's 10:45pm, 23C outside and I'm eating ice cream while
catching up on ding.  What do you mean it's not t-shirt weather?

Lars> (Except for those parts of the world where it's not winter.)

and very nice it is too.

Malcolm - Sydney, Australia.

-- 
	       Malcolm Purvis <malcolmpurvis@optushome.com.au>

The hidden, terrible cost of nuclear warfare is Really Bad Public Art.
			        - Angus McIntyre, alt.peeves, 13/3/02.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Malcolm Purvis <malcolmpurvis@optushome.com.au> writes:

> Where I'm sitting it's 10:45pm, 23C outside and I'm eating ice cream while
> catching up on ding.  What do you mean it's not t-shirt weather?

Razzafrazzin'  *mumble* *mumble*

It's -16C here now, and forecast -20C tomorrow.  Perhaps I'll do some
Oort Gnus Extreme Thermo Gear instead.

Nah.  Then I'd have to go outside.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Jan 04 2003, Simon Josefsson wrote:

> Only one of those was mentioned in GNUS-NEWS...  I tried to add
> them.

Is there a command to view the GNUS-NEWS file?  Maybe it should be
added (plus a menu entry), cf. `C-h n' (view-emacs-news) in Emacs.

> Here is the current NEWS file for Oort -- is it really complete?

- `gnus-group-parameters' should be mentioned

- Integration of message-utils.el (Change subject, stripping "(was:
  ...)", announced cross-post, ...)

> On composing messages, it is enabled by `use-hard-newlines'.  Decoding
> format=flowed was present but not documented in earlier versions.

Index search on "flowed" in Gnus and Message manuals gives no results.

> ** Gnus supports PGP (RFC 1991/2440), PGP/MIME (RFC 2015/3156) and
> ** S/MIME (RFC 2630-2633).
> It needs an external S/MIME and OpenPGP implementation, but no additional
> lisp libraries.

Is the documentation in the Gnus manual (not the PGG manual!) up to
date?  E.g. ...

- <info://gnus/Signing+and+encrypting>

- <info://gnus/Security> Probably not: "[...] you have to install
  mailcrypt or gpg.el [...]"

Do the menu entries (in the "Attachments" menu) use the new PGG
functions?  IMHO, it would be nice to have separate "Attachments" and
"Security" menus.  But I guess then we would have to drop some of the
standard Emacs menus (e.g. "Options" and "Tools"), like w3 or w3m do.
BTW, the menu "Gnus" in the Summary buffer should also be split.

Suggestion:

- Message buffer:

  File|Buffers|Edit|Field|Message|Attachment|Security|[Emacs]|Help

  "Field" may be renamed to "Headers".

  [Emacs]/[Gnus] would toggle display of Emacs/Gnus menu, as in w3.

- Summary buffer:

  File|Buffers|Gnus|Group|Post|Thread|Article|Score|[Emacs]|Help

  Marking, limiting, ... should be moved from "Gnus" to the new
  "Group" menu.

  [Emacs]/[Gnus] would toggle display of Emacs/Gnus menu, as in w3.

Opinions?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Jan 04 2003, Frank Schmitt wrote:

> Large parts of message-utils (or everything?) included, e.g. automatic
>   cutting off of (was: foobar)

_Everything_ from message-utils.el was added (some functions and
variables were renamed).  Additions for the manual are missing.  I'm
going to send a patch for message.texi soon.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Andreas Fuchs]

Proffesional proffreader powers turn on!

On 2003-01-04, Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:
> ** Improved anti-speam features.

Gnus is now able to take out spam from your mail and news streams using
a wide variety of programs and filter rules. Among the supported
methods are RBL blocklists, bogofilter and white/blacklists.

> ** message-insinuate-rmail
> 
> Adding (message-insinuate-rmail) and (setq mail-user-agent
> 'gnus-user-agent) in .emacs convinces RMAIL to compose, reply and
> forward messages in message-mode, where you can enjoy the power of
> MML.
  ^^^ IMHO, this should be "Attachments". The menu item didn't get
      renamed for nothing (-:

> ** gnus-posting-styles
> 
> Add a new format of match like
> 
>         ((header "to" "larsi.*org")
>          (Organization "Somewhere, Inc."))
> 
> The old format like the lines below is obsolete.
>
>         (header "to" "larsi.*org"
>          (Organization "Somewhere, Inc."))

User question: "But is it still supported?"

> ** The menu bar (in Group and Summary buffer) named "Misc" has been
              ^^^
> ** The menu bar (in Message mode) named "MML" has been renamed to
              ^^^

These two "bar"s should be foo^H^H^H^H "item"s, IMHO. (-:


-- 
Andreas Fuchs, <asf@acm.org>, asf@jabber.at, antifuchs

Re: X-Faces in elisp WAS: Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Ami Fischman]

I looked at one x-face(s?)-e21.el file, and it indeed called an external
uncompface binary.  The binary is teensy, but it's the principle of the
thing :)

Cheers,
-- 
  Ami Fischman
  usenet@fischman.org

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sun, 05 Jan 2003, jas@extundo.com wrote:
> One style comment: I see lots of lines that are over 80 characters
> wide nowadays (spam.el, gnus-agent.el).  Perhaps the style
> guidelines changed, if so I'll readjust my emacs width.

No, it's those damn Lisp newbies :)

I fixed the spam.el line lengths where I noticed them - let me know if
the code looks OK.

Thanks
Ted

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Simon Josefsson]

Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> writes:

>> Only one of those was mentioned in GNUS-NEWS...  I tried to add them.
>> Here is the current NEWS file for Oort -- is it really complete?
>
> No.
>
> Tuned summary generation
> nnslashdot working again (AFAIK)

These count as bug fixes, IMHO.  Or was there something user visible
in the summary buffer generation that changed that isn't already
covered?

> Smilies in GNU Emacs

** Smileys (":-)", ";-)" etc) are now iconized for Emacs too.

Put (setq gnus-treat-display-smileys nil) in ~/.emacs to disable it.

> Sender header now not generated by default (AFAIK)

** Gnus no longer generate the Sender: header automatically.

Earlier it was generated iff the user configurable email address was
different from the Gnus guessed default user address.  As the guessing
algorithm is rarely correct these days, and (more controversally) the
only use of the Sender: header was to check if you are entitled to
cancel/supersede news (which is now solved by Cancel Locks instead,
see another entry), generation of the header has been disabled by
default.  See the variables `message-required-headers',
`message-required-news-headers', and `message-required-mail-headers'.

> Large parts of message-utils (or everything?) included,
> e.g. automatic cutting off of (was: foobar)

** Features from third party message-utils.el added to message.el.

Message now asks if you wish to remove "(was: <old subject>)" from
subject lines (see `message-subject-trailing-was-query').  C-c M-m and
C-c M-f inserts markers indicating included text.  C-c C-f a adds a
X-No-Archive: header.  Improved crosspost follow behaviour with
`message-cross-post-*'.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Simon Josefsson]

Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes:

> On Sat, Jan 04 2003, Frank Schmitt wrote:
>
>> Large parts of message-utils (or everything?) included, e.g. automatic
>>   cutting off of (was: foobar)
>
> _Everything_ from message-utils.el was added (some functions and
> variables were renamed).  Additions for the manual are missing.  I'm
> going to send a patch for message.texi soon.

The following NEWS entry is probably incomplete, please add or expand
as appropriate.

** Features from third party message-utils.el added to message.el.

Message now asks if you wish to remove "(was: <old subject>)" from
subject lines (see `message-subject-trailing-was-query').  C-c M-m and
C-c M-f inserts markers indicating included text.  C-c C-f a adds a
X-No-Archive: header.  Improved crosspost follow behaviour with
`message-cross-post-*'.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Simon Josefsson]

Andreas Fuchs <asf@void.at> writes:

> Proffesional proffreader powers turn on!
>
> On 2003-01-04, Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:
>> ** Improved anti-speam features.
>
> Gnus is now able to take out spam from your mail and news streams using
> a wide variety of programs and filter rules. Among the supported
> methods are RBL blocklists, bogofilter and white/blacklists.

** Improved anti-spam features.

Gnus is now able to take out spam from your mail and news streams
using a wide variety of programs and filter rules. Among the supported
methods are RBL blocklists, bogofilter and white/blacklists.  Hooks
for easy use of external packages such as SpamAssassin and Hashcash
are also new.

>
>> ** message-insinuate-rmail
>> Adding (message-insinuate-rmail) and (setq mail-user-agent
>> 'gnus-user-agent) in .emacs convinces RMAIL to compose, reply and
>> forward messages in message-mode, where you can enjoy the power of
>> MML.
>   ^^^ IMHO, this should be "Attachments". The menu item didn't get
>       renamed for nothing (-:

The package is still named MML though, and MML is about more than
Attachments or what is on the menu item.  I'll defer to someone else.

>> ** gnus-posting-styles
>> Add a new format of match like
>>         ((header "to" "larsi.*org")
>>          (Organization "Somewhere, Inc."))
>> The old format like the lines below is obsolete.
>>
>>         (header "to" "larsi.*org"
>>          (Organization "Somewhere, Inc."))
>
> User question: "But is it still supported?"

The code suggests that; so:

** gnus-posting-styles

Add a new format of match like

        ((header "to" "larsi.*org")
         (Organization "Somewhere, Inc."))

The old format like the lines below is obsolete, but still accepted.

        (header "to" "larsi.*org"
         (Organization "Somewhere, Inc."))

>> ** The menu bar (in Group and Summary buffer) named "Misc" has been
>               ^^^
>> ** The menu bar (in Message mode) named "MML" has been renamed to
>               ^^^
>
> These two "bar"s should be foo^H^H^H^H "item"s, IMHO. (-:

** The menu bar item (in Group and Summary buffer) named "Misc" has
been renamed to "Gnus".

** The menu bar item (in Message mode) named "MML" has been renamed to
"Attachments".

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Simon Josefsson]

Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes:

> On Sat, Jan 04 2003, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>
>> Only one of those was mentioned in GNUS-NEWS...  I tried to add
>> them.
>
> Is there a command to view the GNUS-NEWS file?  Maybe it should be
> added (plus a menu entry), cf. `C-h n' (view-emacs-news) in Emacs.

Doesn't GNUS-NEWS become part of C-h n once released?  I dunno.

>> Here is the current NEWS file for Oort -- is it really complete?
>
> - `gnus-group-parameters' should be mentioned

Wasn't that part of 5.9.0 too?

> - Integration of message-utils.el (Change subject, stripping "(was:
>   ...)", announced cross-post, ...)

** Features from third party message-utils.el added to message.el.

Message now asks if you wish to remove "(was: <old subject>)" from
subject lines (see `message-subject-trailing-was-query').  C-c M-m and
C-c M-f inserts markers indicating included text.  C-c C-f a adds a
X-No-Archive: header.  Improved crosspost follow behaviour with
`message-cross-post-*'.

>> On composing messages, it is enabled by `use-hard-newlines'.  Decoding
>> format=flowed was present but not documented in earlier versions.
>
> Index search on "flowed" in Gnus and Message manuals gives no results.

Try the Emacs MIME manual. :-)

>> ** Gnus supports PGP (RFC 1991/2440), PGP/MIME (RFC 2015/3156) and
>> ** S/MIME (RFC 2630-2633).
>> It needs an external S/MIME and OpenPGP implementation, but no additional
>> lisp libraries.
>
> Is the documentation in the Gnus manual (not the PGG manual!) up to
> date?  E.g. ...
>
> - <info://gnus/Signing+and+encrypting>
>
> - <info://gnus/Security> Probably not: "[...] you have to install
>   mailcrypt or gpg.el [...]"

I think I fixed these now, thanks.

> Do the menu entries (in the "Attachments" menu) use the new PGG
> functions?

PGG is only used indirectly by Gnus via MML, but yes, if MML is
configured to use PGG the Attachments menu will use PGG.

> IMHO, it would be nice to have separate "Attachments" and "Security"
> menus.

I think it was separate from the beginning, but it became really
short.  I think the current Attachments menu is rather good except for
the name, but I can't think of a better name.  (Several entries do not
really have anything to do with Attachments..)

> But I guess then we would have to drop some of the standard Emacs
> menus (e.g. "Options" and "Tools"), like w3 or w3m do.  BTW, the
> menu "Gnus" in the Summary buffer should also be split.
>
> Suggestion:
>
> - Message buffer:
>
>   File|Buffers|Edit|Field|Message|Attachment|Security|[Emacs]|Help
>
>   "Field" may be renamed to "Headers".
>
>   [Emacs]/[Gnus] would toggle display of Emacs/Gnus menu, as in w3.
>
> - Summary buffer:
>
>   File|Buffers|Gnus|Group|Post|Thread|Article|Score|[Emacs]|Help
>
>   Marking, limiting, ... should be moved from "Gnus" to the new
>   "Group" menu.
>
>   [Emacs]/[Gnus] would toggle display of Emacs/Gnus menu, as in w3.
>
> Opinions?

Hmm, yes.  I don't think we should add more menus though, even today I
have to resize my emacs window to see all menus.  Perhaps if the W3
approach is used.

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Doesn't GNUS-NEWS become part of C-h n once released?  I dunno.

Yup.

> Hmm, yes.  I don't think we should add more menus though, even today I
> have to resize my emacs window to see all menus.  Perhaps if the W3
> approach is used.

A redesign of the menus is probably a good idea.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Jan 13 2003, Simon Josefsson wrote:

> Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes:
[...]
>> Is there a command to view the GNUS-NEWS file?  Maybe it should be
>> added (plus a menu entry), cf. `C-h n' (view-emacs-news) in Emacs.
>
> Doesn't GNUS-NEWS become part of C-h n once released?  I dunno.

Apparently, yes.  Wouldn't it be useful nevertheless?  (E.g. for
people not using the version shipped with Emacs.)

>> - `gnus-group-parameters' should be mentioned
>
> Wasn't that part of 5.9.0 too?

You're right, sorry for the noise.

>> - Integration of message-utils.el (Change subject, stripping "(was:
>>   ...)", announced cross-post, ...)
>
> ** Features from third party message-utils.el added to message.el.
>
> Message now asks if you wish to remove "(was: <old subject>)" from
> subject lines (see `message-subject-trailing-was-query').  C-c M-m and
> C-c M-f inserts markers indicating included text.  C-c C-f a adds a
> X-No-Archive: header.  Improved crosspost follow behaviour with
> `message-cross-post-*'.

I'd mention `C-c C-f x', maybe...

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
--- GNUS-NEWS.~6.38.~	Mon Jan 13 22:56:32 2003
+++ GNUS-NEWS	Tue Jan 14 20:45:00 2003
@@ -28,8 +28,9 @@
 Message now asks if you wish to remove "(was: <old subject>)" from
 subject lines (see `message-subject-trailing-was-query').  C-c M-m and
 C-c M-f inserts markers indicating included text.  C-c C-f a adds a
-X-No-Archive: header.  Improved crosspost follow behaviour with
-`message-cross-post-*'.
+X-No-Archive: header.  C-c C-f x inserts appropriate headers and a
+note in the body for cross-postings and followups (see the variables
+`message-cross-post-*').
 
 ** References and X-Draft-Headers are no longer generated when you
    start composing messages.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

>> Suggestion:
>> - Message buffer:
>>   File|Buffers|Edit|Field|Message|Attachment|Security|[Emacs]|Help
>> - Summary buffer:
>>   File|Buffers|Gnus|Group|Post|Thread|Article|Score|[Emacs]|Help
[...]
>> Opinions?
>
> Hmm, yes.  I don't think we should add more menus though, even today I
> have to resize my emacs window to see all menus.  Perhaps if the W3
> approach is used.

ACK, I would not suggest to add additional menus unless we take the w3
approach.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Jan 14 2003, Reiner Steib wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 13 2003, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>
>> Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes:
[...]
>>> - `gnus-group-parameters' should be mentioned
>>
>> Wasn't that part of 5.9.0 too?
>
> You're right, sorry for the noise.

Oops, I meant `gnus-parameters' (not `gnus-group-parameters'), which
is new in Oort:

2001-02-23 17:00:00  ShengHuo ZHU  <zsh@cs.rochester.edu>
[...]   * gnus.el (gnus-parameters): New variable.

I think it should be mentioned in GNUS-NEWS because it allows to move
(some) configuration stuff from ~/.newsrc.eld to ~/.gnus.el, which is
more human readable.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Simon Josefsson]

Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes:

>>> - Integration of message-utils.el (Change subject, stripping "(was:
>>>   ...)", announced cross-post, ...)
>>
>> ** Features from third party message-utils.el added to message.el.
>>
>> Message now asks if you wish to remove "(was: <old subject>)" from
>> subject lines (see `message-subject-trailing-was-query').  C-c M-m and
>> C-c M-f inserts markers indicating included text.  C-c C-f a adds a
>> X-No-Archive: header.  Improved crosspost follow behaviour with
>> `message-cross-post-*'.
>
> I'd mention `C-c C-f x', maybe...
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> --- GNUS-NEWS.~6.38.~	Mon Jan 13 22:56:32 2003
> +++ GNUS-NEWS	Tue Jan 14 20:45:00 2003
> @@ -28,8 +28,9 @@
>  Message now asks if you wish to remove "(was: <old subject>)" from
>  subject lines (see `message-subject-trailing-was-query').  C-c M-m and
>  C-c M-f inserts markers indicating included text.  C-c C-f a adds a
> -X-No-Archive: header.  Improved crosspost follow behaviour with
> -`message-cross-post-*'.
> +X-No-Archive: header.  C-c C-f x inserts appropriate headers and a
> +note in the body for cross-postings and followups (see the variables
> +`message-cross-post-*').
>  
>  ** References and X-Draft-Headers are no longer generated when you
>     start composing messages.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Added, thanks.

>>> Suggestion:
>>> - Message buffer:
>>>   File|Buffers|Edit|Field|Message|Attachment|Security|[Emacs]|Help
>>> - Summary buffer:
>>>   File|Buffers|Gnus|Group|Post|Thread|Article|Score|[Emacs]|Help
> [...]
>>> Opinions?
>>
>> Hmm, yes.  I don't think we should add more menus though, even today I
>> have to resize my emacs window to see all menus.  Perhaps if the W3
>> approach is used.
>
> ACK, I would not suggest to add additional menus unless we take the w3
> approach.

But I agree that a redesign of the menus would probably be a good
idea.  As I rarely use the menus, I don't know how to improve them
though.

> Oops, I meant `gnus-parameters' (not `gnus-group-parameters'), which
> is new in Oort:
>
> 2001-02-23 17:00:00  ShengHuo ZHU  <zsh@cs.rochester.edu>
> [...]   * gnus.el (gnus-parameters): New variable.
>
> I think it should be mentioned in GNUS-NEWS because it allows to move
> (some) configuration stuff from ~/.newsrc.eld to ~/.gnus.el, which is
> more human readable.

Yup.

** The new variable `gnus-parameters' can be used to set group parameters.

Earlier this was done only via `G p' (or `G c'), which stored the
parameters in ~/.newsrc.eld, but via this variable you can enjoy the
powers of customize, and simplified backups since you set the variable
in ~/.emacs instead of ~/.newsrc.eld.  The variable maps regular
expressions matching group names to group parameters, a'la:

     (setq gnus-parameters
           '(("mail\\..*"
              (gnus-show-threads nil)
              (gnus-use-scoring nil))
             ("^nnimap:\\(foo.bar\\)$"
              (to-group . "\\1"))))

Re: Gnus 5.10?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> But I agree that a redesign of the menus would probably be a good
> idea.  As I rarely use the menus, I don't know how to improve them
> though.

Me neither.  :-)

The menus have grown and grown over the years, and are way overdue
for a redesign.  If anybody wants to tackle this, that would be nice. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Menu reorganization (was: Gnus 5.10?)

[Jesper Harder]

Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> writes:

> IMHO, it would be nice to have separate "Attachments" and "Security"
> menus.

I agree.

Here's another approach: Consolidate to only two menus in message-mode:
"Headers" and "Message".

"Headers" is like "Field" today and the items from "Attachments" are
moved to two submenus of "Message": Attachments and Security.

The "Security" submenu can be simplified by not having a separate item
for each of the three different encryption/signing method.  Instead the
default method can be changed from a submenu with radio buttons.

Something like this:

Message
  Attachments
      Attach file
      Attach buffer
      Attach external
      Insert Part
      Insert Multipart
      Quote MML
      Validate MML
  Security
      Sign
      Encrypt
      Sign Part
      Encrypt Part
      Sign/Encrypt off
      Method
          [x] PGP/MIME
          [ ] PGP
          [ ] S/MIME
  Yank Original
  Fill Yanked Message
  Insert Signature
  .... etc.

Re: Menu reorganization

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Jesper Harder <harder@myrealbox.com> writes:

> Here's another approach: Consolidate to only two menus in message-mode:
> "Headers" and "Message".

Looks good to me.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen