Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Lloyd Zusman]

I've been using Gnus with XEmacs for years, but I have the impression
that recent enhancements of Oort might be better suited for use within
FSF Emacs.

Is this the case?  If so, what recent Gnus features work better under
FSF Emacs?

Or if this is not the case, what Gnus features work better under XEmacs?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Simon Josefsson]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Lloyd Zusman wrote:

> I've been using Gnus with XEmacs for years, but I have the impression
> that recent enhancements of Oort might be better suited for use within
> FSF Emacs.
> 
> Is this the case?  If so, what recent Gnus features work better under
> FSF Emacs?
> 
> Or if this is not the case, what Gnus features work better under XEmacs?

Perhaps it is only that Oort added support for things in Emacs that XEmacs
has supported for a long time.  Images and stuff.

The manual says Picons only works for XEmacs.  It also says XEmacs usually
supports compface internally, Emacs only via external program.  It also
says that XEmacs Gnus has a logo and toolbar while Emacs doesn't.  Other 
than that, I can't find much differences in the manual.

Personally, I find unicode works better with Oort in Emacs than in XEmacs.

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Lloyd Zusman]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>
>> [ ... ]
>> 
>> Is this the case?  If so, what recent Gnus features work better under
>> FSF Emacs?
>> 
>> Or if this is not the case, what Gnus features work better under XEmacs?
>
> Perhaps it is only that Oort added support for things in Emacs that XEmacs
> has supported for a long time.  Images and stuff.
>
> The manual says Picons only works for XEmacs.  It also says XEmacs usually
> supports compface internally, Emacs only via external program.  It also
> says that XEmacs Gnus has a logo and toolbar while Emacs doesn't.  Other 
> than that, I can't find much differences in the manual.
>
> Personally, I find unicode works better with Oort in Emacs than in XEmacs.

Thanks.

Isn't there something involving network access or DNS or something like
that, which exists in FSF Emacs and which recent Oort's can make use of?
Or am I completely off base?

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Simon Josefsson]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Lloyd Zusman wrote:

> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
> 
> > On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> >
> >> [ ... ]
> >> 
> >> Is this the case?  If so, what recent Gnus features work better under
> >> FSF Emacs?
> >> 
> >> Or if this is not the case, what Gnus features work better under XEmacs?
> >
> > Perhaps it is only that Oort added support for things in Emacs that XEmacs
> > has supported for a long time.  Images and stuff.
> >
> > The manual says Picons only works for XEmacs.  It also says XEmacs usually
> > supports compface internally, Emacs only via external program.  It also
> > says that XEmacs Gnus has a logo and toolbar while Emacs doesn't.  Other 
> > than that, I can't find much differences in the manual.
> >
> > Personally, I find unicode works better with Oort in Emacs than in XEmacs.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Isn't there something involving network access or DNS or something like
> that, which exists in FSF Emacs and which recent Oort's can make use of?
> Or am I completely off base?

Right, but I couldn't find it mentioned in the manual, so it can't exist,
can it. :-)

XEmacs doesn't support UDP network connections.  Perhaps dns.el fall back 
to TCP now though, which XEmacs support, so it shouldn't be a major 
problem.

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Pavel Janík]

   From: Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com>
   Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:41:46 +0200 (CEST)

   > The manual says Picons only works for XEmacs.

Hmm, I use picons in Emacs...

   > It also says that XEmacs Gnus has a logo and toolbar while Emacs
   > doesn't.

Gnus has logo and toolbar in Emacs.
-- 
Pavel Janík

panic("esp: what could it be... I wonder...");
                  -- 2.2.16 drivers/scsi/esp.c

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Kai Großjohann]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Personally, I find unicode works better with Oort in Emacs than in XEmacs.

This situation is in flux, as the XEmacs CVS head has just migrated
to using Unicode internally (if I understand Ben's changes
correctly), whereas a similar change in Emacs is still in a branch.

kai
-- 
Silence is foo!

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Lloyd Zusman]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>>
>> [ ... ]
>> 
>> Isn't there something involving network access or DNS or something like
>> that, which exists in FSF Emacs and which recent Oort's can make use of?
>> Or am I completely off base?
>
> Right, but I couldn't find it mentioned in the manual, so it can't exist,
> can it. :-)
>
> XEmacs doesn't support UDP network connections.  Perhaps dns.el fall
> back to TCP now though, which XEmacs support, so it shouldn't be a
> major problem.

Does anyone know if that "perhaps" is now a "definitely"?

Thanks.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Karl Eichwalder]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> The manual says Picons only works for XEmacs.  It also says XEmacs usually
> supports compface internally, Emacs only via external program.  It also
> says that XEmacs Gnus has a logo and toolbar while Emacs doesn't. 

That's a documentation bug (Emacs now supports tool bars).  message.el
features tooltips (ballon help) that will work for Emacs only.

-- 
ke@suse.de (work) / keichwa@gmx.net (home):              |
http://www.suse.de/~ke/                                  |      ,__o
Free Translation Project:                                |    _-\_<,
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/             |   (*)/'(*)

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Steve Youngs]

|--==> "SJ" == Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

  SJ> XEmacs doesn't support UDP network connections.

Yes it does.

,----[ C-h f open-network-stream RET ]
| `open-network-stream' is a compiled Lisp function
|   -- loaded from "/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.5-b6/lisp/code-process.elc"
| (open-network-stream NAME BUFFER HOST SERVICE &optional PROTOCOL)
| 
| Documentation: (partially elided)
| [...]
| Fifth argument PROTOCOL is a network protocol.  Currently 'tcp
|  (Transmission Control Protocol) and 'udp (User Datagram Protocol) are
|  supported.  When omitted, 'tcp is assumed.
| [...]
`----


-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 10D5C9C5>---|
|            XEmacs - It's not just an editor.             |
|                    It's a way of life.                   |
|------------------------------------<youngs@xemacs.org>---|

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Romain FRANCOISE]

Lloyd Zusman writes:

> I've been using Gnus with XEmacs for years, but I have the impression
> that recent enhancements of Oort might be better suited for use within
> FSF Emacs.

It's "GNU Emacs", not "FSF Emacs". Please.

-- 
Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com>
it's a miracle! -- http://www.orebokech.com/

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Lloyd Zusman]

Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> writes:

> Lloyd Zusman writes:
>
>> I've been using Gnus with XEmacs for years, but I have the impression
>> that recent enhancements of Oort might be better suited for use within
>> FSF Emacs.
>
> It's "GNU Emacs", not "FSF Emacs". Please.

I'm sure that no one was confused as to which Emacs I was referring to.
After all, you knew that "GNU Emacs" was the version in question.

But I'll try to remember to use the name "GNU Emacs" in future posts,
for whatever that's worth.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Lloyd Zusman]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Steve Youngs <youngs@xemacs.org> writes:
>
>> |--==> "SJ" == Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>>
>>   SJ> XEmacs doesn't support UDP network connections.
>>
>> Yes it does.
>
> Oops, you're right.  Looking at dns.el also indicates that it should
> work on both emacsen.

Great!  So now I don't have any reason to switch from XEmacs to
FSF^H^H^HGNU Emacs.

Thanks to all.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Simon Josefsson]

Steve Youngs <youngs@xemacs.org> writes:

> |--==> "SJ" == Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>
>   SJ> XEmacs doesn't support UDP network connections.
>
> Yes it does.

Oops, you're right.  Looking at dns.el also indicates that it should
work on both emacsen.

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Dmitry Bely]

Karl Eichwalder <ke@gnu.franken.de> writes:

>> The manual says Picons only works for XEmacs.  It also says XEmacs usually
>> supports compface internally, Emacs only via external program.  It also
>> says that XEmacs Gnus has a logo and toolbar while Emacs doesn't. 
>
> That's a documentation bug (Emacs now supports tool bars).  message.el
> features tooltips (ballon help) that will work for Emacs only.

What do you mean? One-line balloon help for toolbar buttons? If so, why I
see it in XEmacs/NT?

Hope to hear from you soon,
Dmitry

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Stainless Steel Rat]

* Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com>  on Tue, 30 Apr 2002
| It's "GNU Emacs", not "FSF Emacs". Please.

As long as FSF Emacs' documentation has references to "MS-DOG" and
"Windoze" then -nobody- has any right to bitch about "FSF Emacs".  Sure, I
know it is childish; so are things like "MS-DOG" and "Windoze" in the NEWS
and DOC files.  Pot, kettle, etc.
-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ 
       That and five bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Karl Eichwalder]

Dmitry Bely <dbely@mail.ru> writes:

> Karl Eichwalder <ke@gnu.franken.de> writes:
>
>>> The manual says Picons only works for XEmacs.  It also says XEmacs usually
>>> supports compface internally, Emacs only via external program.  It also
>>> says that XEmacs Gnus has a logo and toolbar while Emacs doesn't. 
>>
>> That's a documentation bug (Emacs now supports tool bars).  message.el
>> features tooltips (ballon help) that will work for Emacs only.
>
> What do you mean? One-line balloon help for toolbar buttons? If so, why I
> see it in XEmacs/NT?

Don't know.  In message.el are explicit checks, making me believe XEmacs
doesn't have tooltips:

    ["Flag As Important" message-insert-importance-high
     ,@(if (featurep 'xemacs) '(t)
	 '(:help "Mark this message as important"))]

Probably they are derived from somewhere else.  Sorry for the confusion.
I wished there were a better way to write portable code.

-- 
ke@suse.de (work) / keichwa@gmx.net (home):              |
http://www.suse.de/~ke/                                  |      ,__o
Free Translation Project:                                |    _-\_<,
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/             |   (*)/'(*)

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Per Abrahamsen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> This situation is in flux, as the XEmacs CVS head has just migrated
> to using Unicode internally (if I understand Ben's changes
> correctly), whereas a similar change in Emacs is still in a branch.

Is it in branch?  I though it was in "we wish someone would implement
that".

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Kai Großjohann]

Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

> Is it in branch?  I though it was in "we wish someone would implement
> that".

There was a flurry of commits recently (some weeks ago) by
Handa-san.  The version number in that branch was set to 22, fwiw.

kai
-- 
Silence is foo!

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Daniel Pittman]

On Wed, 01 May 2002, Per Abrahamsen wrote:
> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> 
>> This situation is in flux, as the XEmacs CVS head has just migrated
>> to using Unicode internally (if I understand Ben's changes
>> correctly), whereas a similar change in Emacs is still in a branch.
> 
> Is it in branch?  I though it was in "we wish someone would implement
> that".

It's in HEAD, but it's hardly complete or polished at the moment.

        Daniel

-- 
The youth gets together his materials to build a bridge to the moon, or,
perchance, a palace or temple on the earth, and, at length, the middle-aged
man concludes to build a woodshed with them.
        -- Henry David Thoreau

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Kai Großjohann]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

> It's in HEAD, but it's hardly complete or polished at the moment.

Unicode stuff is in HEAD for XEmacs, but in a branch for Emacs,
afaik.  (I was talking about Emacs.)

kai
-- 
Silence is foo!

Re: Are the latest Oort features better suited for FSF Emacs?

[Daniel Pittman]

On Thu, 02 May 2002, Kai Großjohann wrote:
> Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:
> 
>> It's in HEAD, but it's hardly complete or polished at the moment.
> 
> Unicode stuff is in HEAD for XEmacs, but in a branch for Emacs,
> afaik.  (I was talking about Emacs.)

Oops. Sorry. I thought that you were still referring to the work being
done by Ben Wing in XEmacs. My bad.
        Daniel

-- 
Now that mountains of meaningless words and oceans divide us
And we each have our own set of stars to comfort and guide us
        -- Nick Cave, _Come Into My Sleep_