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* [edbrowse-dev] proposal: moving #edbrowse from freenode to libera
@ 2021-05-21  8:59 Kevin Carhart
  2021-05-21 10:30 ` Chris Brannon
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Carhart @ 2021-05-21  8:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: edbrowse-dev

For the people who talk on the IRC channel and haven't already done this, what do you think about moving to an #edbrowse on libera as a result of the ongoing troubles?


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [edbrowse-dev] proposal: moving #edbrowse from freenode to libera
  2021-05-21  8:59 [edbrowse-dev] proposal: moving #edbrowse from freenode to libera Kevin Carhart
@ 2021-05-21 10:30 ` Chris Brannon
  2021-06-01 21:04   ` Adam Thompson
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Chris Brannon @ 2021-05-21 10:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: edbrowse-dev

"Kevin Carhart" <kevin_carhart@fastmail.fm> writes:

> For the people who talk on the IRC channel and haven't already done
> this, what do you think about moving to an #edbrowse on libera as a
> result of the ongoing troubles?

Here's the backstory for those who aren't following.  This hits kind of
close to home, since my girlfriend was Freenode staff and we actually
met on Freenode.  I dropped off Freenode suddenly, because I didn't want
to deal with this stuff.

Essentially, the head of staff at Freenode (Christel) sold it in 2017 to
a bitcoin millionaire, Andrew Lee.  Lee claimed that he would be
hands-off.  But last month, he made a power play, appointing people to
staff positions and trying to have others removed from staff positions.
Freenode has always been volunteer-run.  The volunteer staff resigned en
masse.  Here are links to a couple of their resignation letters.

https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt
https://gist.github.com/aaronmdjones/1a9a93ded5b7d162c3f58bdd66b8f491

I registered #edbrowse on irc.libera.chat.  A few of us are in
##edbrowse, but we may as well drop the extra # if we do move to the new network.

-- Chris


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [edbrowse-dev] proposal: moving #edbrowse from freenode to libera
  2021-05-21 10:30 ` Chris Brannon
@ 2021-06-01 21:04   ` Adam Thompson
  2021-06-10  5:14     ` document.write and innerHTML Kevin Carhart
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thompson @ 2021-06-01 21:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chris Brannon; +Cc: edbrowse-dev

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 03:30:52AM -0700, Chris Brannon wrote:
> Essentially, the head of staff at Freenode (Christel) sold it in 2017 to
> a bitcoin millionaire, Andrew Lee.  Lee claimed that he would be
> hands-off.  But last month, he made a power play, appointing people to
> staff positions and trying to have others removed from staff positions.
> Freenode has always been volunteer-run.  The volunteer staff resigned en
> masse.  Here are links to a couple of their resignation letters.
> 
> https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt
> https://gist.github.com/aaronmdjones/1a9a93ded5b7d162c3f58bdd66b8f491
> 
> I registered #edbrowse on irc.libera.chat.  A few of us are in
> ##edbrowse, but we may as well drop the extra # if we do move to the new network.

Agreed on the move and the dropping of the extra #. Tbh I think that was only
there because of the freenode channel naming policy and the fact that, at the
time of registration, it was a little debatable how official it was as the
project channel. Since then it's become that so that makes sense. Also, when
I got some more time I was going to propose this move anyway due to
what's happening at Freenode.

Cheers,
Adam.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* document.write and innerHTML
  2021-06-01 21:04   ` Adam Thompson
@ 2021-06-10  5:14     ` Kevin Carhart
  2021-06-10 11:49       ` Adam Thompson
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Carhart @ 2021-06-10  5:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: edbrowse-dev

Paging Silas, do you subscribe to edbrowse-dev now?

I researched what Silas is talking about a little bit and here is what I found out.  I can't tell if it's significant or just odd.

I went to both jdb and the firefox console, and I can confirm that our behavior diverges from FF behavior, but it's also different from what I expected in a strange way
In edbrowse, if I load a page and then say document.body.innerHTML, I get stuff
Then if I say document.write("hello") and then document.body.innerHTML, nothing changed and it echoes the same string.
In the FF console if I run the same things, I was expecting it to append "hello" on the existing innerHTML.  But it completely clobbers.  And correspondingly, the render completely changes.  (of course, only in the browser, where you can mess with the already-downloaded as much as you like.)  So now the entire page has had its innerHTML changed to just "hello".

So I don't know if ssb22 is saying that an append or a clobber is what should happen, but I think he's pointing out that currently in edbrowse neither happens.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: document.write and innerHTML
  2021-06-10  5:14     ` document.write and innerHTML Kevin Carhart
@ 2021-06-10 11:49       ` Adam Thompson
  2021-06-12  2:36         ` Karl Dahlke
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thompson @ 2021-06-10 11:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kevin Carhart; +Cc: edbrowse-dev

On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 10:14:50PM -0700, Kevin Carhart wrote:
> I researched what Silas is talking about a little bit and here is what I found out.  I can't tell if it's significant or just odd.
> 
> I went to both jdb and the firefox console, and I can confirm that our behavior diverges from FF behavior, but it's also different from what I expected in a strange way
> In edbrowse, if I load a page and then say document.body.innerHTML, I get stuff
> Then if I say document.write("hello") and then document.body.innerHTML, nothing changed and it echoes the same string.
> In the FF console if I run the same things, I was expecting it to append "hello" on the existing innerHTML.  But it completely clobbers.  And correspondingly, the render completely changes.  (of course, only in the browser, where you can mess with the already-downloaded as much as you like.)  So now the entire page has had its innerHTML changed to just "hello".
> 
> So I don't know if ssb22 is saying that an append or a clobber is what should happen, but I think he's pointing out that currently in edbrowse neither happens.
> 

I also always assumed append would be the thing to do here, but I checked
[1] and it seems that if the document is already loaded when document.write is
called it defaults to blasting the document first.

[1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Document/write


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* document.write and innerHTML
  2021-06-10 11:49       ` Adam Thompson
@ 2021-06-12  2:36         ` Karl Dahlke
  2021-06-12  4:14           ` Kevin Carhart
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Karl Dahlke @ 2021-06-12  2:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: edbrowse-dev

So just to be clear: document.write, if already browsing, should be, effectively,
document.body.innerHTML =   blah
The page is completely gone and replaced.

I don't think it's a hard change, but it's kinda drastic.

Also, two or three document.writes in a row -
does each clobber the previous, or do they append and then when the script is done, that is the new page?

Karl Dahlke


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: document.write and innerHTML
  2021-06-12  2:36         ` Karl Dahlke
@ 2021-06-12  4:14           ` Kevin Carhart
  2021-06-14  8:26             ` Adam Thompson
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Carhart @ 2021-06-12  4:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: edbrowse-dev

Appends, so from the FF console if you send
document.write(1);document.write(2);document.write(3)

document.body.innerHTML returns "123"


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: document.write and innerHTML
  2021-06-12  4:14           ` Kevin Carhart
@ 2021-06-14  8:26             ` Adam Thompson
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thompson @ 2021-06-14  8:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kevin Carhart; +Cc: edbrowse-dev

On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 09:14:45PM -0700, Kevin Carhart wrote:
> Appends, so from the FF console if you send
> document.write(1);document.write(2);document.write(3)
> 
> document.body.innerHTML returns "123"
> 

As far as I can tell it's like a stream. When loading, the document is
opened for writing and thus document.write() appends. Once loading has
completed (when browsing) the document is closed. Thus, when
document.write() is called on an already closed document it first calls
document.open() which calls document.clear() (like using fopen with "w" as
the mode). Subsequent document.write() calls on the same document then find
the document is already opened and thus append. I'd need to check mdn again
but I'm not sure if there's also a document.close() call as well. All of
this sits below the DOM manipulation calls such that the DOM needs to be
adjusted after document-altering calls I think. I'm not sure how close this
is to what's currently implemented (especially after the last change) in
practical terms (e.g. if anyone widely uses document.open etc).

Cheers,
Adam.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-06-14  8:27 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-05-21  8:59 [edbrowse-dev] proposal: moving #edbrowse from freenode to libera Kevin Carhart
2021-05-21 10:30 ` Chris Brannon
2021-06-01 21:04   ` Adam Thompson
2021-06-10  5:14     ` document.write and innerHTML Kevin Carhart
2021-06-10 11:49       ` Adam Thompson
2021-06-12  2:36         ` Karl Dahlke
2021-06-12  4:14           ` Kevin Carhart
2021-06-14  8:26             ` Adam Thompson

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