* update / punctuation / math
@ 2023-04-01 8:27 Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-04-01 13:46 ` Willi Egger via ntg-context
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2023-04-01 8:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9411 bytes --]
Hi,
There have been some mails about punctuation spacing and a fix was added
to the engine that related to that. As tests showed it to be okay so we
made an update. It took a bit longer than normal because we were in the
middle of some other math stuff: additional fonts and extensibles.
Daniel Flipo maintains a few math fonts (like concrete, xcharter,
erewhon, kp, euler) and the last few weeks more extensive support for
extensibles was added and concrete became quite nice too, so these fonts
make a nice benchmark. As they are part of the lmtx install and we made
sure to support them.
In the process we adapted our 2023 roadmap of which part is attached (we
included an example end then decided to show of concrete).
When we go through the process of 'upgrading' we noticed some
interesting names for symbols and 'constructs'. Quite some come from
plain and/or amsmath (in the past taco and aditya did some porting to
context) and we're not always sure if something is really used (or even
what it was intended for) so if you notice something weird or missing,
let us know. Examples are welcome too. It might also be that something
can go away because it's obsolete or never needed (so far we could
resist te kick-out-symbole-name temptation when it comes to symbol names
that we think no sane user can remember or imagine to be there).
When often add extra tests to the test suite (math subsection).
Hans & Mikael
ps. Alan and I are still messing around with some cross referencing.
That code is still experimental and can have issues that we're looking
at but hard to nail down (huge complex cross-referencing documents).
More about that later.
==================================
We added the tex of the pdf below
====== extract from roadmap ======
\usemodule[article-basic,abbreviations-logos]
\setupbodyfont[concrete]
\starttext
\startsubject[title=Math in \CONTEXT\ roadmap]
\startitemize[n]
\startitem
After playing with math support for more than a year, we have come
to the
conclusion that it is time to move on. We have already discarded italic
correction and now are replacing rules with extensibles. Much was
already in
place (and applied) but experiences with type one antykwas made us
review
some \OPENTYPE\ fonts. Not using rules makes some of them look
better. The
effect is subtle and probably not \AMS\ compliant, but we think
that it will
work out well for simple math like fractions of decimal numbers.
Consequently, we have added to our shrinking to-do list the burden to
investigate whether we can remove those obsolete code paths from
the engine.
After all, who needs italic correction, who prefers ugly rules to
beautiful
glyphs, and who understands all these font parameters? Furthermore,
after all
these years, we don't expect \OPENTYPE\ font and \UNICODE\ math
technologies
to improve much; we don't know if \MICROSOFT\ is developing their
technology
further at all. Therefore, we are confident that what we are doing
is the way
it should have been done when math was upgraded. Hopefully users
will notice
the improvements.
\stopitem
\startitem
Math also means physics and units (that topic was brought up
recently on the
list by Gavin). Therefore, because we're in cleanup mode, we decided to
eliminate some more. With \ISO\ now in place for a long time, we
are going to
ignore the existence of the inch as unit from now on. The unit will
probably
remain in the engine for nostalgic reasons, but it will no be
accepted in
MWE. Instead, we will provide some more modern, culturally correct,
kid-friendly units that we will use in examples, manuals and such.
Because
the four-person strong team dealing with this wants to avoid making
mistakes,
we will go through a careful and scientifically sound process of
calibration
first, using a selected tex savvy audience. We expect these new
units to be
stable a month from now. Believe it or not, in the process of
documenting all
this, we found a buglet in the new math dimension spacing, so it
has already
paid off. Expect to hear more in a month or so, and enjoy your
inches as long
as you still can. In case you wonder how this relates to math other
than
mentioned: the math subsystem has 'mu' as adaptive unit, and that
inspired is
to come up with one for text (in addition to two new more or less fixed
units).
\stopitem
\startitem
The math family model is a fundamental concept in \TEX\ but we
think we can
do without. First of all, \OPENTYPE\ math fonts have (design)
script and
scriptscript sizes built in, so for that we have one family.
Second, only
full bold (heavy) makes sense as companion for regular math which is
something that in practice we can support otherwise. So, this makes us
consider dropping families altogether which then provides (mem)
space for
even more classes or dictionaries. If we nevertheless decide to keep
families, we can certainly go with less than we have now, maybe two
(or four
if we want to be generous and also resemble original tex) of them
is enough.
We cannot imagine users wanting more. As a side note: completely
divorcing
families could make the math engine a bit leaner. It is hard to
explain and
users only care about the outcome. So more on this later.
\stopitem
\startitem
Another path to explore is to identify the few building blocks that are
needed for typesetting math, and then doing a bit more at the tex
end. Of
course that would nil quite some earlier effort, which is a bit
frustrating,
but still \unknown\ maybe the math engine can be reduced to a
fraction of
what is is now.
\stopitem
\startitem
When we look at the math fonts and some characters in there, we
sometimes
wonder what makes sense. For some, searching in e.g. arXiv brings
no hit.
Basically we have obsolete math symbols and currently used one.
That made us
think about ancient math versus modern math, just like there is
ancient greek
and modern greek. Because math is a script one can wonder about
obsolete math
dialects with symbols just like there are plenty deal scripts in
\UNICODE. We
already are working on dictionaries but another axis is useability.
\stopitem
\startitem
We no longer have the small / large extensible family model so we can
simplify delimiters in the engine. Not something users should worry
about.
\stopitem
\startitem
We're not sure why math is considered stable because everything moved
forward. Therefore we're preparing a bid for extra math symbols as
needed in
modern explorative and daring math thesis. When symbols are really
used, and
we have proof of that, it should be possible to get them un
\UNICODE, just
like all these emoji. We welcome input and as an example of
currently faked
symbols we added some to the distribution as easter eggs. One example:
Mikael got contacted by a stressed student working on a thesis on
probability. This student needed to typeset the characteristic
function of a
random variable \im {X} with density function \im {f_{X}}, and it was
insisted to use another notation than the (wide) hat, that was
already used
for something else. For this reason the \tex {widerandomhat} was
introduced,
\useMPlibrary[newmath]
\startformula
E[\ee^{\ii tX}] = \widerandomhat{f_{X}}(t)\mtp{,}
E[\ee^{\ii t(X_1+X_2)}] = \widerandomhat{f_{X_1} \ast
f_{X_2}}(t)\mtp{.}
\stopformula
Naturally, it is automatically scaled, just like the ordinary wide hat
\startformula
\widehat{a+b+c+d+e+f} \neq \widerandomhat{a+b+c+d+e+f}
\stopformula
Once the thesis is printed, we will contact the \UNICODE\ Consortium to
suggest that it gets a slot.
\stopitem
\startitem
Our most ambitious project is a reverse engineering one, which is
why it is
conducted at the engineering faculty of the Dnul university (we cannot
reveal the real name yet). In math articles one can find
visualizing like
$x\leftarrow x$ and there are plenty of \TEX\ commands that have
arrow or
hook in their names. If you look at the names of math symbols plenty
are kind of weird. We think it is not natural and are considering a
\quote
{natural language math input} project, where you tell what it is
and get the
symbols you expect. For that we need to analyze typeset math and
from the
context as well as visualization derive a dataset that we can feed
into a
machine learning subsystem that then can be used to turn input into
type. We
have several stages in mind spanning years but it can be fun. Think
of it
like \quote {untagged math} which then of course results in \quote
{untagged
pdf}, but better!
\stopitem
\stopitemize
Mikael & Hans
\stopsubject
\stoptext
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[-- Attachment #2: 230401-0.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 67658 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 496 bytes --]
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-01 8:27 update / punctuation / math Hans Hagen via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-01 13:46 ` Willi Egger via ntg-context
2023-04-02 1:46 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-04-02 8:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Willi Egger via ntg-context @ 2023-04-01 13:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Willi Egger
Cute, as always today :-)
Willi
> On 1 Apr 2023, at 10:27, Hans Hagen via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> There have been some mails about punctuation spacing and a fix was added to the engine that related to that. As tests showed it to be okay so we made an update. It took a bit longer than normal because we were in the middle of some other math stuff: additional fonts and extensibles.
>
> Daniel Flipo maintains a few math fonts (like concrete, xcharter, erewhon, kp, euler) and the last few weeks more extensive support for extensibles was added and concrete became quite nice too, so these fonts make a nice benchmark. As they are part of the lmtx install and we made sure to support them.
>
> In the process we adapted our 2023 roadmap of which part is attached (we included an example end then decided to show of concrete).
>
> When we go through the process of 'upgrading' we noticed some interesting names for symbols and 'constructs'. Quite some come from plain and/or amsmath (in the past taco and aditya did some porting to context) and we're not always sure if something is really used (or even what it was intended for) so if you notice something weird or missing, let us know. Examples are welcome too. It might also be that something can go away because it's obsolete or never needed (so far we could resist te kick-out-symbole-name temptation when it comes to symbol names that we think no sane user can remember or imagine to be there).
>
> When often add extra tests to the test suite (math subsection).
>
> Hans & Mikael
>
> ps. Alan and I are still messing around with some cross referencing. That code is still experimental and can have issues that we're looking at but hard to nail down (huge complex cross-referencing documents). More about that later.
>
> ==================================
>
> We added the tex of the pdf below
>
> ====== extract from roadmap ======
>
> \usemodule[article-basic,abbreviations-logos]
>
> \setupbodyfont[concrete]
>
> \starttext
>
> \startsubject[title=Math in \CONTEXT\ roadmap]
>
> \startitemize[n]
>
> \startitem
> After playing with math support for more than a year, we have come to the
> conclusion that it is time to move on. We have already discarded italic
> correction and now are replacing rules with extensibles. Much was already in
> place (and applied) but experiences with type one antykwas made us review
> some \OPENTYPE\ fonts. Not using rules makes some of them look better. The
> effect is subtle and probably not \AMS\ compliant, but we think that it will
> work out well for simple math like fractions of decimal numbers.
> Consequently, we have added to our shrinking to-do list the burden to
> investigate whether we can remove those obsolete code paths from the engine.
> After all, who needs italic correction, who prefers ugly rules to beautiful
> glyphs, and who understands all these font parameters? Furthermore, after all
> these years, we don't expect \OPENTYPE\ font and \UNICODE\ math technologies
> to improve much; we don't know if \MICROSOFT\ is developing their technology
> further at all. Therefore, we are confident that what we are doing is the way
> it should have been done when math was upgraded. Hopefully users will notice
> the improvements.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> Math also means physics and units (that topic was brought up recently on the
> list by Gavin). Therefore, because we're in cleanup mode, we decided to
> eliminate some more. With \ISO\ now in place for a long time, we are going to
> ignore the existence of the inch as unit from now on. The unit will probably
> remain in the engine for nostalgic reasons, but it will no be accepted in
> MWE. Instead, we will provide some more modern, culturally correct,
> kid-friendly units that we will use in examples, manuals and such. Because
> the four-person strong team dealing with this wants to avoid making mistakes,
> we will go through a careful and scientifically sound process of calibration
> first, using a selected tex savvy audience. We expect these new units to be
> stable a month from now. Believe it or not, in the process of documenting all
> this, we found a buglet in the new math dimension spacing, so it has already
> paid off. Expect to hear more in a month or so, and enjoy your inches as long
> as you still can. In case you wonder how this relates to math other than
> mentioned: the math subsystem has 'mu' as adaptive unit, and that inspired is
> to come up with one for text (in addition to two new more or less fixed
> units).
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> The math family model is a fundamental concept in \TEX\ but we think we can
> do without. First of all, \OPENTYPE\ math fonts have (design) script and
> scriptscript sizes built in, so for that we have one family. Second, only
> full bold (heavy) makes sense as companion for regular math which is
> something that in practice we can support otherwise. So, this makes us
> consider dropping families altogether which then provides (mem) space for
> even more classes or dictionaries. If we nevertheless decide to keep
> families, we can certainly go with less than we have now, maybe two (or four
> if we want to be generous and also resemble original tex) of them is enough.
> We cannot imagine users wanting more. As a side note: completely divorcing
> families could make the math engine a bit leaner. It is hard to explain and
> users only care about the outcome. So more on this later.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> Another path to explore is to identify the few building blocks that are
> needed for typesetting math, and then doing a bit more at the tex end. Of
> course that would nil quite some earlier effort, which is a bit frustrating,
> but still \unknown\ maybe the math engine can be reduced to a fraction of
> what is is now.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> When we look at the math fonts and some characters in there, we sometimes
> wonder what makes sense. For some, searching in e.g. arXiv brings no hit.
> Basically we have obsolete math symbols and currently used one. That made us
> think about ancient math versus modern math, just like there is ancient greek
> and modern greek. Because math is a script one can wonder about obsolete math
> dialects with symbols just like there are plenty deal scripts in \UNICODE. We
> already are working on dictionaries but another axis is useability.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> We no longer have the small / large extensible family model so we can
> simplify delimiters in the engine. Not something users should worry about.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> We're not sure why math is considered stable because everything moved
> forward. Therefore we're preparing a bid for extra math symbols as needed in
> modern explorative and daring math thesis. When symbols are really used, and
> we have proof of that, it should be possible to get them un \UNICODE, just
> like all these emoji. We welcome input and as an example of currently faked
> symbols we added some to the distribution as easter eggs. One example:
>
> Mikael got contacted by a stressed student working on a thesis on
> probability. This student needed to typeset the characteristic function of a
> random variable \im {X} with density function \im {f_{X}}, and it was
> insisted to use another notation than the (wide) hat, that was already used
> for something else. For this reason the \tex {widerandomhat} was introduced,
>
> \useMPlibrary[newmath]
>
> \startformula
> E[\ee^{\ii tX}] = \widerandomhat{f_{X}}(t)\mtp{,}
> E[\ee^{\ii t(X_1+X_2)}] = \widerandomhat{f_{X_1} \ast f_{X_2}}(t)\mtp{.}
> \stopformula
>
> Naturally, it is automatically scaled, just like the ordinary wide hat
>
> \startformula
> \widehat{a+b+c+d+e+f} \neq \widerandomhat{a+b+c+d+e+f}
> \stopformula
>
> Once the thesis is printed, we will contact the \UNICODE\ Consortium to
> suggest that it gets a slot.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> Our most ambitious project is a reverse engineering one, which is why it is
> conducted at the engineering faculty of the Dnul university (we cannot
> reveal the real name yet). In math articles one can find visualizing like
> $x\leftarrow x$ and there are plenty of \TEX\ commands that have arrow or
> hook in their names. If you look at the names of math symbols plenty
> are kind of weird. We think it is not natural and are considering a \quote
> {natural language math input} project, where you tell what it is and get the
> symbols you expect. For that we need to analyze typeset math and from the
> context as well as visualization derive a dataset that we can feed into a
> machine learning subsystem that then can be used to turn input into type. We
> have several stages in mind spanning years but it can be fun. Think of it
> like \quote {untagged math} which then of course results in \quote {untagged
> pdf}, but better!
> \stopitem
>
> \stopitemize
>
> Mikael & Hans
>
> \stopsubject
>
> \stoptext
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------<230401-0.pdf>___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-01 8:27 update / punctuation / math Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-04-01 13:46 ` Willi Egger via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 1:46 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-04-02 8:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 1:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen via ntg-context; +Cc: Alan Braslau
Here in Colorado, we need $\widecowboyhat$.
Of course, care should be taken so that it typeset properly in
right-to-left as well.
Alan
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 10:27:41 +0200
Hans Hagen via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There have been some mails about punctuation spacing and a fix was
> added to the engine that related to that. As tests showed it to be
> okay so we made an update. It took a bit longer than normal because
> we were in the middle of some other math stuff: additional fonts and
> extensibles.
>
> Daniel Flipo maintains a few math fonts (like concrete, xcharter,
> erewhon, kp, euler) and the last few weeks more extensive support for
> extensibles was added and concrete became quite nice too, so these
> fonts make a nice benchmark. As they are part of the lmtx install and
> we made sure to support them.
>
> In the process we adapted our 2023 roadmap of which part is attached
> (we included an example end then decided to show of concrete).
>
> When we go through the process of 'upgrading' we noticed some
> interesting names for symbols and 'constructs'. Quite some come from
> plain and/or amsmath (in the past taco and aditya did some porting to
> context) and we're not always sure if something is really used (or
> even what it was intended for) so if you notice something weird or
> missing, let us know. Examples are welcome too. It might also be that
> something can go away because it's obsolete or never needed (so far
> we could resist te kick-out-symbole-name temptation when it comes to
> symbol names that we think no sane user can remember or imagine to be
> there).
>
> When often add extra tests to the test suite (math subsection).
>
> Hans & Mikael
>
> ps. Alan and I are still messing around with some cross referencing.
> That code is still experimental and can have issues that we're
> looking at but hard to nail down (huge complex cross-referencing
> documents). More about that later.
>
> ==================================
>
> We added the tex of the pdf below
>
> ====== extract from roadmap ======
>
> \usemodule[article-basic,abbreviations-logos]
>
> \setupbodyfont[concrete]
>
> \starttext
>
> \startsubject[title=Math in \CONTEXT\ roadmap]
>
> \startitemize[n]
>
> \startitem
> After playing with math support for more than a year, we have
> come to the
> conclusion that it is time to move on. We have already discarded
> italic correction and now are replacing rules with extensibles. Much
> was already in
> place (and applied) but experiences with type one antykwas made
> us review
> some \OPENTYPE\ fonts. Not using rules makes some of them look
> better. The
> effect is subtle and probably not \AMS\ compliant, but we think
> that it will
> work out well for simple math like fractions of decimal numbers.
> Consequently, we have added to our shrinking to-do list the
> burden to investigate whether we can remove those obsolete code paths
> from the engine.
> After all, who needs italic correction, who prefers ugly rules
> to beautiful
> glyphs, and who understands all these font parameters?
> Furthermore, after all
> these years, we don't expect \OPENTYPE\ font and \UNICODE\ math
> technologies
> to improve much; we don't know if \MICROSOFT\ is developing
> their technology
> further at all. Therefore, we are confident that what we are
> doing is the way
> it should have been done when math was upgraded. Hopefully users
> will notice
> the improvements.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> Math also means physics and units (that topic was brought up
> recently on the
> list by Gavin). Therefore, because we're in cleanup mode, we
> decided to eliminate some more. With \ISO\ now in place for a long
> time, we are going to
> ignore the existence of the inch as unit from now on. The unit
> will probably
> remain in the engine for nostalgic reasons, but it will no be
> accepted in
> MWE. Instead, we will provide some more modern, culturally
> correct, kid-friendly units that we will use in examples, manuals and
> such. Because
> the four-person strong team dealing with this wants to avoid
> making mistakes,
> we will go through a careful and scientifically sound process of
> calibration
> first, using a selected tex savvy audience. We expect these new
> units to be
> stable a month from now. Believe it or not, in the process of
> documenting all
> this, we found a buglet in the new math dimension spacing, so it
> has already
> paid off. Expect to hear more in a month or so, and enjoy your
> inches as long
> as you still can. In case you wonder how this relates to math
> other than
> mentioned: the math subsystem has 'mu' as adaptive unit, and
> that inspired is
> to come up with one for text (in addition to two new more or
> less fixed units).
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> The math family model is a fundamental concept in \TEX\ but we
> think we can
> do without. First of all, \OPENTYPE\ math fonts have (design)
> script and
> scriptscript sizes built in, so for that we have one family.
> Second, only
> full bold (heavy) makes sense as companion for regular math
> which is something that in practice we can support otherwise. So,
> this makes us consider dropping families altogether which then
> provides (mem) space for
> even more classes or dictionaries. If we nevertheless decide to
> keep families, we can certainly go with less than we have now, maybe
> two (or four
> if we want to be generous and also resemble original tex) of
> them is enough.
> We cannot imagine users wanting more. As a side note: completely
> divorcing
> families could make the math engine a bit leaner. It is hard to
> explain and
> users only care about the outcome. So more on this later.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> Another path to explore is to identify the few building blocks
> that are needed for typesetting math, and then doing a bit more at
> the tex end. Of
> course that would nil quite some earlier effort, which is a bit
> frustrating,
> but still \unknown\ maybe the math engine can be reduced to a
> fraction of
> what is is now.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> When we look at the math fonts and some characters in there, we
> sometimes
> wonder what makes sense. For some, searching in e.g. arXiv
> brings no hit.
> Basically we have obsolete math symbols and currently used one.
> That made us
> think about ancient math versus modern math, just like there is
> ancient greek
> and modern greek. Because math is a script one can wonder about
> obsolete math
> dialects with symbols just like there are plenty deal scripts in
> \UNICODE. We
> already are working on dictionaries but another axis is
> useability. \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> We no longer have the small / large extensible family model so
> we can simplify delimiters in the engine. Not something users should
> worry about.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> We're not sure why math is considered stable because everything
> moved forward. Therefore we're preparing a bid for extra math symbols
> as needed in
> modern explorative and daring math thesis. When symbols are
> really used, and
> we have proof of that, it should be possible to get them un
> \UNICODE, just
> like all these emoji. We welcome input and as an example of
> currently faked
> symbols we added some to the distribution as easter eggs. One
> example:
>
> Mikael got contacted by a stressed student working on a thesis on
> probability. This student needed to typeset the characteristic
> function of a
> random variable \im {X} with density function \im {f_{X}}, and
> it was insisted to use another notation than the (wide) hat, that was
> already used
> for something else. For this reason the \tex {widerandomhat} was
> introduced,
>
> \useMPlibrary[newmath]
>
> \startformula
> E[\ee^{\ii tX}] = \widerandomhat{f_{X}}(t)\mtp{,}
> E[\ee^{\ii t(X_1+X_2)}] = \widerandomhat{f_{X_1} \ast
> f_{X_2}}(t)\mtp{.}
> \stopformula
>
> Naturally, it is automatically scaled, just like the ordinary
> wide hat
>
> \startformula
> \widehat{a+b+c+d+e+f} \neq \widerandomhat{a+b+c+d+e+f}
> \stopformula
>
> Once the thesis is printed, we will contact the \UNICODE\
> Consortium to suggest that it gets a slot.
> \stopitem
>
> \startitem
> Our most ambitious project is a reverse engineering one, which
> is why it is
> conducted at the engineering faculty of the Dnul university (we
> cannot reveal the real name yet). In math articles one can find
> visualizing like
> $x\leftarrow x$ and there are plenty of \TEX\ commands that have
> arrow or
> hook in their names. If you look at the names of math symbols
> plenty are kind of weird. We think it is not natural and are
> considering a \quote
> {natural language math input} project, where you tell what it is
> and get the
> symbols you expect. For that we need to analyze typeset math and
> from the
> context as well as visualization derive a dataset that we can
> feed into a
> machine learning subsystem that then can be used to turn input
> into type. We
> have several stages in mind spanning years but it can be fun.
> Think of it
> like \quote {untagged math} which then of course results in
> \quote {untagged
> pdf}, but better!
> \stopitem
>
> \stopitemize
>
> Mikael & Hans
>
> \stopsubject
>
> \stoptext
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-01 8:27 update / punctuation / math Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-04-01 13:46 ` Willi Egger via ntg-context
2023-04-02 1:46 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 8:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:05 ` Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:29 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 8:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: luigi scarso
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On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 10:28, Hans Hagen via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
As a side note (it's 2 april now)
the concrete font of the pdf is not rendered well both on web and t on
win/linux desktop .
No surprise, I did some experiments with mflua years ago and my results
had the same problem.
Is it a known issue?
--
luigi
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___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-02 8:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 9:05 ` Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:19 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:29 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 9:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Mikael Sundqvist
Hi,
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 10:35 AM luigi scarso via ntg-context
<ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 10:28, Hans Hagen via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>
> As a side note (it's 2 april now)
> the concrete font of the pdf is not rendered well both on web and t on win/linux desktop .
> No surprise, I did some experiments with mflua years ago and my results had the same problem.
> Is it a known issue?
If you talk about the math font, I do not see what you mean. Daniel
has worked a lot on his fonts, and they now work well.
If you talk about the text font, Hans changed the concrete typescript
so that it uses the variable "mono" Latin modern instead of the
concrete text font that comes from Computer modern unicode. But the
font is also boldened slightly, and perhaps that is what causes your
problem (It did look weird on my phone for half a second or so before
it "got normal"). In okular I see no problems.
/Mikael
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-02 9:05 ` Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 9:19 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 9:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: luigi scarso, Mikael Sundqvist
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1006 bytes --]
On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 11:06, Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>
> If you talk about the math font, I do not see what you mean. Daniel
> has worked a lot on his fonts, and they now work well.
>
indeed the body font is not concrete opentype math but it looks very
similar at first sight
(of course... ). I was deceived because I remember its shapes quite well (C
,g a ).
>
> If you talk about the text font, Hans changed the concrete typescript
> so that it uses the variable "mono" Latin modern instead of the
> concrete text font that comes from Computer modern unicode. But the
> font is also boldened slightly, and perhaps that is what causes your
> problem (It did look weird on my phone for half a second or so before
> it "got normal"). In okular I see no problems.
>
>
here evince & mupdf are quite ok (evince somewhat bolder than mupdf),
okular looks not so good. They all have a caching-something,
after the first zooms the pdf is rendered differently.
--
luigi
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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-02 8:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:05 ` Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 9:29 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:41 ` Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 9:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: luigi scarso
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 628 bytes --]
On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 10:35, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 10:28, Hans Hagen via ntg-context <
> ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
> As a side note (it's 2 april now)
> the concrete font of the pdf is not rendered well both on web and t on
> win/linux desktop .
> No surprise, I did some experiments with mflua years ago and my
> results had the same problem.
>
getting old... the pdf doesn't look so bad as I was used to remember
https://meeting.contextgarden.net/2017/talks/2017-09-14-luigi-mflua/slides.pdf
So yes , it's the instance of the variable font.
--
luigi
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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-02 9:29 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 9:41 ` Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 9:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Mikael Sundqvist
Hi,
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 11:29 AM luigi scarso via ntg-context
<ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 10:35, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 10:28, Hans Hagen via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>
>> As a side note (it's 2 april now)
>> the concrete font of the pdf is not rendered well both on web and t on win/linux desktop .
>> No surprise, I did some experiments with mflua years ago and my results had the same problem.
>
>
> getting old... the pdf doesn't look so bad as I was used to remember
> https://meeting.contextgarden.net/2017/talks/2017-09-14-luigi-mflua/slides.pdf
>
> So yes , it's the instance of the variable font.
Oh, that looks like a very nice talk, I wish I had been there.
/Mikael
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-02 9:19 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context
2023-04-02 12:21 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 11:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: luigi scarso via ntg-context; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez
On 4/2/23 11:19, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 11:06, Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
> <ntg-context@ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> wrote:
>
> If you talk about the math font, I do not see what you mean. Daniel
> has worked a lot on his fonts, and they now work well.
>
>
> indeed the body font is not concrete opentype math but it looks very
> similar at first sight
Hi Luigi,
according to type-imp-concrete.mkiv, Concrete-Math.otf seems to be only
used for the math font.
> here evince & mupdf are quite ok (evince somewhat bolder than mupdf),
Well, evince displays it wrong (this is an already known issue with fake
bold fonts in evince/poppler, reported years ago
[https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/-/issues/645]).
Just in case it might help,
Pablo
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-02 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 12:21 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 15:42 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 12:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: luigi scarso, Pablo Rodriguez
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1079 bytes --]
On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 13:57, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> On 4/2/23 11:19, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
> > On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 11:06, Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
> > <ntg-context@ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> wrote:
> >
> > If you talk about the math font, I do not see what you mean. Daniel
> > has worked a lot on his fonts, and they now work well.
> >
> >
> > indeed the body font is not concrete opentype math but it looks very
> > similar at first sight
>
> Hi Luigi,
>
> according to type-imp-concrete.mkiv, Concrete-Math.otf seems to be only
> used for the math font.
>
> > here evince & mupdf are quite ok (evince somewhat bolder than mupdf),
>
> Well, evince displays it wrong (this is an already known issue with fake
> bold fonts in evince/poppler, reported years ago
> [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/-/issues/645]).
>
>
hm, 4years ago, quite old... and this is not a fake bold, this is an
instance of a variable font.
But yes, it seems that evince still has the same problem.
--
luigi
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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: update / punctuation / math
2023-04-02 12:21 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-02 15:42 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2023-04-02 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: luigi scarso via ntg-context; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez
On 4/2/23 14:21, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 13:57, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
>
> Well, evince displays it wrong (this is an already known issue with fake
> bold fonts in evince/poppler, reported years ago
> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/-/issues/645).
>
> hm, 4years ago, quite old... and this is not a fake bold, this is an
> instance of a variable font.
> But yes, it seems that evince still has the same problem.
Sorry, Luigi, I meant
http://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/attachments/20230401/1f8c6cc9/attachment-0001.pdf.
According to type-imp-concrete.mkiv, text has the feature boldened-10
applied to it.
Even with a variable font (which might not be the case in the link
above), extending the font fakes the bold, such as in:
\definefontfamily
[mainface]
[rm]
[Source Sans 3 VF]
[features={default, boldened-10}]
\setupbodyfont[mainface]
\starttext
\input zapf
\stoptext
Evince displays it poorly and this is what happens in the link above.
Pablo
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-04-02 15:42 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-04-01 8:27 update / punctuation / math Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-04-01 13:46 ` Willi Egger via ntg-context
2023-04-02 1:46 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-04-02 8:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:05 ` Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:19 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context
2023-04-02 12:21 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
2023-04-02 15:42 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context
2023-04-02 9:29 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context
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