From: lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy)
Subject: [TUHS] UNIX of choice these days?
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 08:18:27 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170925151827.GP28606@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC20D2MKMVozxARuwYQ2WgwWYJhfSdyU2t7YP1X5sf5PaTNseA@mail.gmail.com>
On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 10:16:11AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
> So what I'm asking us to try to do, is not just look at the technology in a
> vacuum. Why was it not interesting to /proc for BSD. Clearly, Linux
> added it (differently than Eighth Edition of course and the 4.4
> implementation was much more like V8 that Linux would settle). People did
> do the work to use it.
Linux's /proc was hugely different than the AT&T /proc, in a good way in
my opinion. It's sort of Tcl like :-), everything is a string. So you
can look at the files with cat. I think plan 9 went this way as well.
And the Linux /proc did and does so much more than AT&T /proc. You
can tune the system, debug the system, here's an example. You know
something is holding something open, you want to know what.
$ ps
PID TTY TIME CMD
2668 pts/8 00:00:00 bash
14153 pts/8 00:00:00 ps
$ cd /proc/2668/fd
$ ls -l
total 0
lrwx------ 1 lm lm 64 Sep 23 21:16 0 -> /dev/pts/8
lrwx------ 1 lm lm 64 Sep 23 21:16 1 -> /dev/pts/8
lrwx------ 1 lm lm 64 Sep 23 21:16 2 -> /dev/pts/8
lrwx------ 1 lm lm 64 Sep 23 21:39 255 -> /dev/pts/8
Now isn't that pleasant? (Yes, I know about lsof).
One could make an argument that for debugging you need a lighter weight
way to get the info, and maybe ptrace is lighter, I dunno. But for most
stuff the Linux /proc (it's really /system because it's about way way
more than processes) is super pleasant.
> So why did *BSD not bring those versions of the utilities back?
>
> My >>guess<< while they had added some things (like /proc) it was different
> again and we got into the BSD != Linux stuff - which has been the UNIX war
> all over again.
Yeah, I don't see the two being compat. They could overlap but when you get
into specific tuning variables they won't match.
I suspect that no /proc in BSD is simple, there wasn't anyone who wanted to
put in the time to evolve it and maintain it.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-09-25 15:18 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 110+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-09-25 12:07 Norman Wilson
2017-09-25 14:16 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-25 15:13 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-25 16:51 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-26 0:56 ` ron minnich
2017-09-25 15:18 ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2017-09-25 15:30 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-25 23:49 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-26 2:06 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-26 14:53 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-26 15:17 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-26 21:23 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-26 21:43 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-26 21:45 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-27 0:58 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-27 1:37 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-27 2:02 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-27 13:50 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-27 14:17 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-28 8:10 ` Derek Fawcus
2017-09-28 12:34 ` Chet Ramey
[not found] ` <20170928174420.GA41732@accordion.employees.org>
2017-09-28 17:57 ` Derek Fawcus
2017-09-28 18:04 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-27 3:42 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-27 14:35 ` Chet Ramey
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-09-30 15:17 Norman Wilson
2017-09-30 20:29 ` Kevin Bowling
2017-09-30 21:56 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-30 22:37 ` Kevin Bowling
2017-09-25 12:46 [TUHS] Unix " Doug McIlroy
2017-09-25 13:57 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-23 23:39 [TUHS] UNIX " Nelson H. F. Beebe
2017-09-21 2:28 Rudi Blom
2017-09-20 0:12 Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 0:26 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-20 0:39 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-20 1:03 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2017-09-20 20:56 ` jason-tuhs
2017-09-23 9:17 ` Dario Niedermann
2017-09-23 9:36 ` Steve Mynott
2017-09-23 10:03 ` Dario Niedermann
2017-09-23 23:04 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-24 0:11 ` Random832
2017-09-24 1:19 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-24 13:46 ` Andy Kosela
2017-09-24 14:02 ` ron minnich
2017-09-24 14:06 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-24 20:36 ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-24 21:38 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-24 23:36 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-24 23:50 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-25 0:03 ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-25 15:36 ` Tony Finch
2017-09-26 0:42 ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-26 9:54 ` Tony Finch
2017-09-26 14:41 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-26 17:34 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-26 17:39 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-26 18:26 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-26 17:43 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-26 19:44 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-26 23:22 ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-25 0:51 ` Charles Anthony
2017-09-25 0:36 ` Dan Cross
2017-09-25 0:44 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-25 0:56 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-25 15:45 ` Tony Finch
2017-09-25 16:14 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-25 7:41 ` Andy Kosela
2017-09-25 7:43 ` Cory Smelosky
2017-09-25 10:14 ` Andy Kosela
2017-09-25 9:58 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-25 11:14 ` Derek Fawcus
2017-09-25 11:48 ` Andrew Warkentin
2017-09-24 15:26 ` Christian Barthel
2017-09-24 17:33 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-24 17:33 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-23 23:00 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-26 22:00 ` Christian Groessler
2017-09-20 4:42 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-20 8:31 ` Mutiny
2017-09-20 9:15 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-20 16:58 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 17:05 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-20 17:53 ` Henry Bent
2017-09-20 18:12 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 18:33 ` Brad Spencer
2017-09-20 19:20 ` Henry Bent
2017-09-20 19:37 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 19:58 ` Jacob Ritorto
2017-09-20 22:29 ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-20 22:31 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-20 12:52 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-20 13:33 ` Nemo
2017-09-20 15:39 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-20 15:42 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-20 16:58 ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-20 17:09 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-20 17:31 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 22:40 ` Steve Simon
2017-09-20 22:51 ` Erik Berls
2017-09-20 23:37 ` Robert Brockway
2017-09-21 1:47 ` Derrik Walker v2.0
2017-09-21 3:54 ` Gregg Levine
2017-09-21 14:33 ` Nicholas Chappell
2017-09-21 16:38 ` Mutiny
2017-09-21 16:42 ` gilbertmm
2017-09-21 18:30 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-21 23:34 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-25 10:36 ` Thomas Kellar
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