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From: crossd@gmail.com (Dan Cross)
Subject: [TUHS] UNIX of choice these days?
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 20:36:15 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAEoi9W7Jz7qk0YBt6NpKFea2qxTrX67LLm-K-4U7rEC78iUoyg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.1709250934460.89458@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 7:36 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2017, Bakul Shah wrote:
>
>> There are just a few potential users of /proc and they were already using
>> other facilities. plus /proc is an optional facility. All this conspired to
>> make /proc less useful in FreeBSD. Unused code is in danger of being garbage
>> collected in FreeBSD :-)
>
>
> Whatever happened to the Unix philosophy of everything looking like a file?
> Adding more system calls is the Windoze (or perhaps Penguin) way of doing
> things.

This is an interesting point (and I think TUHS relevant): I've long
held that the powers-that-be in what has become the "Unix" world have
no more than a cursory interest in the Unix philosophy.

The reasons for this are many. Part of it is lack of exposure to any
other way of doing things (in particular, lack of exposure to a
canonically Unix way of doing things). I've lost track of the number
of people I've tried to show Plan 9-ish ways of doing things to and
the pushback I've gotten: "Filesystems?! That'll NEVER work!" "But
look...it's working right here." "Bah. That's just some goof-ball
research toy." Grrr....

Part of it is that the problems have shifted out from underfoot: Unix
was created in a place and at a time where a certain class of problem
was important; it solved those sorts of problems (and did damn well at
doing so). And while many of those problems are still important today,
entirely new classes of problems are also (if not more) important
these days and Unix did not grow to gracefully accommodate those
problems. Maybe those problems shouldn't matter, but they do; oh well.

The irony, of course, is that Unix basically "won". It's just that it
had to stop being Unix to do so. "He who stares into the abyss...."

        - Dan C.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-09-25  0:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 154+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-09-20  0:12 Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20  0:26 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-20  0:39 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-20  1:03   ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2017-09-20 20:56     ` jason-tuhs
2017-09-23  9:17   ` Dario Niedermann
2017-09-23  9:36     ` Steve Mynott
2017-09-23 10:03       ` Dario Niedermann
2017-09-23 23:04         ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-24  0:11           ` Random832
2017-09-24  1:19             ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-24 13:46       ` Andy Kosela
2017-09-24 14:02         ` ron minnich
2017-09-24 14:06           ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-24 20:36             ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-24 21:38               ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-24 23:36                 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-24 23:50                   ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-25  0:03                     ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-25 15:36                       ` Tony Finch
2017-09-26  0:42                         ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-26  9:54                           ` Tony Finch
2017-09-26 14:41                           ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-26 17:34                             ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-26 17:39                               ` Warner Losh
2017-09-26 18:26                                 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-26 17:43                               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-26 19:44                                 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-26 23:22                             ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-25  0:51                     ` Charles Anthony
2017-09-25  0:36                   ` Dan Cross [this message]
2017-09-25  0:44                     ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-25  0:56                   ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-25 15:45                     ` Tony Finch
2017-09-25 16:14                       ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-25  7:41                   ` Andy Kosela
2017-09-25  7:43                     ` Cory Smelosky
2017-09-25 10:14                       ` Andy Kosela
2017-09-25  9:58                     ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-25 11:14                       ` Derek Fawcus
2017-09-25 11:48                       ` Andrew Warkentin
2017-09-24 15:26           ` Christian Barthel
2017-09-24 17:33             ` Clem Cole
2017-09-24 17:33           ` Clem Cole
2017-09-24 17:51             ` [TUHS] RFS was: " Arthur Krewat
2017-09-24 19:54               ` Clem Cole
2017-09-24 21:59                 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-24 22:08                 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-24 23:52                   ` Clem Cole
2017-09-27  8:44                 ` arnold
2017-09-27 15:25                   ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-27 15:49                     ` arnold
2017-09-27 17:38                   ` Mantas Mikulėnas
2017-09-27 23:01                   ` Kevin Bowling
2017-09-27 23:11                     ` Clem Cole
2017-09-27 23:13                       ` Kevin Bowling
2017-09-28  0:39                         ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-28  3:19                           ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-09-28 13:45                             ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-28 17:12                               ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-28 17:58                                 ` [TUHS] Bill Joy was: Re: RFS Forrest, Jon
2017-09-28  0:54                         ` [TUHS] RFS was: Re: UNIX of choice these days? Dave Horsfall
2017-09-28  0:59                           ` William Pechter
2017-09-28 13:49                         ` arnold
2017-09-28 14:07                           ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-28 14:28                             ` arnold
2017-09-28 19:49                               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-28 20:00                             ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-28 14:27                           ` Clem Cole
2017-09-28 22:08                             ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-28 22:20                               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-29  2:23                                 ` Kevin Bowling
2017-09-29  8:59                                 ` Andreas Kusalananda Kähäri
2017-09-29 14:20                                   ` Clem Cole
2017-09-29 16:46                                   ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-29 17:02                                     ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-29 17:27                                       ` Pete Wright
2017-09-29 18:11                                       ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-29 18:47                                     ` Andreas Kusalananda Kähäri
2017-09-29 15:22                                 ` George Ross
2017-09-29 18:40                                   ` Don Hopkins
2017-09-29 19:03                                     ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-29 21:24                                     ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-29 22:11                                       ` Don Hopkins
2017-09-29 22:21                                         ` Don Hopkins
2017-09-29 19:19                                 ` Dan Cross
2017-09-29 19:22                                   ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-29 20:52                                   ` Jon Forrest
2017-09-23 23:00     ` [TUHS] " Dave Horsfall
2017-09-26 22:00     ` Christian Groessler
2017-09-20  4:42 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-20  8:31   ` Mutiny 
2017-09-20  9:15 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-20 16:58   ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 17:05     ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-20 17:53     ` Henry Bent
2017-09-20 18:12       ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 18:33         ` Brad Spencer
2017-09-20 19:20           ` Henry Bent
2017-09-20 19:37           ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 19:58             ` Jacob Ritorto
2017-09-20 22:29               ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-20 22:31                 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-20 12:52 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-20 13:33 ` Nemo
2017-09-20 15:39 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-20 15:42 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-20 16:58   ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-20 17:09     ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-20 17:31     ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-20 22:40 ` Steve Simon
2017-09-20 22:51   ` Erik Berls
2017-09-20 23:37 ` Robert Brockway
2017-09-21  1:47 ` Derrik Walker v2.0
2017-09-21  3:54 ` Gregg Levine
2017-09-21 14:33 ` Nicholas Chappell
2017-09-21 16:38   ` Mutiny 
2017-09-21 16:42     ` gilbertmm
2017-09-21 18:30     ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-21 23:34     ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-25 10:36 ` Thomas Kellar
2017-09-21  2:28 Rudi Blom
2017-09-23 23:39 Nelson H. F. Beebe
2017-09-25 12:07 Norman Wilson
2017-09-25 14:16 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-25 15:13   ` Warner Losh
2017-09-25 16:51     ` Warner Losh
2017-09-26  0:56       ` ron minnich
2017-09-25 15:18   ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-25 15:30     ` Warner Losh
2017-09-25 23:49     ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-26  2:06       ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-26 14:53         ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-26 15:17           ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-26 21:23           ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-26 21:43             ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-26 21:45             ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-27  0:58               ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-27  1:37                 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-27  2:02                   ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-27 13:50                     ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-27 14:17                       ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-28  8:10                         ` Derek Fawcus
2017-09-28 12:34                           ` Chet Ramey
     [not found]                             ` <20170928174420.GA41732@accordion.employees.org>
2017-09-28 17:57                               ` Derek Fawcus
2017-09-28 18:04                                 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-27  3:42                   ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-27 14:35                     ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-25 12:46 [TUHS] Unix " Doug McIlroy
2017-09-25 13:57 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-30 15:17 [TUHS] UNIX " Norman Wilson
2017-09-30 20:29 ` Kevin Bowling
2017-09-30 21:56   ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-30 22:37     ` Kevin Bowling

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