From: "will.senn@gmail.com" <will.senn@gmail.com>
To: tuhs@tuhs.org, Dan Halbert <halbert@halwitz.org>
Subject: [TUHS] Re: python
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 10:20:53 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <2BF7ADB4-4851-4CF5-A6AC-0F1079D4AF78@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1f043101-4dbb-34ff-b037-85e7cc707a6e@halwitz.org>
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Nice. I've never appreciated type checking at 'compile' time, but I understand why others might (ocd). C was my first exposure to blending types, then Perl was fuzzier, then Python was even better at pretending types didn't matter. Now, with Lisp, I am freed from type concerns... until I'm not. Thankfully, it's my choice.
Will
On August 3, 2023 9:56:22 AM CDT, Dan Halbert <halbert@halwitz.org> wrote:
>Python has optional type annotations. There are batch tools (e.g., MyPy) to do type analysis and IDE's also provide help. Example:
>
>def greeting(name: str) -> str:
> return 'Hello ' + name
>
>I found Python to be an enormous improvement over Perl for writing the kinds of things I used to write in Perl, with the Perl book at my side. I currently make my living working on Python for microcontrollers. Neverthless, I am fond of type checking too, and if I were writing a large Python system, I would use type annotations.
>
>I have used BCPL too, in the 70's, and we achieved some measure of type safety by careful naming.
>
>Dan H.
>
>On 8/3/23 10:19, Bakul Shah wrote:
>> I have not heard such horror stories about Common Lisp (or may be I have forgotten them!). My impression is that python doesn't quite have the kind of {meta,}programming tools Common Lisp has. CL has been used for large critical programs. Perhaps Von Rossum had more experience with statically typed languages than Lisp (because -- pure speculation here -- if he had used CL enough, he would never have designed python :-)
>>
>>> On Aug 3, 2023, at 1:32 AM, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I once inherited maintenance of a critical piece of infrastructure written in exquisitely well written, tested, and documented Python. I mean it, it was really really good.
>>>
>>> It crashed about once a week and I had to fix it over and over because in those exponentially vast combinations of paths through the code would arise yet another way to turn a string into a list, or something analogous. It was hell.
>>>
>>> Critical code needs static typing.
>>>
>>> -rob
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 1:56 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> python can certainly implement tail call optimization (TCO).
>>> Pretty much any language can implement TCO but for some reason
>>> people think such programs are harder to debug (and yet they
>>> don't similarly complain about loops!). The beauty of Scheme was
>>> that it *mandated* tail recursion.
>>>
>>> > On Aug 2, 2023, at 8:24 PM, George Michaelson
>>> <ggm@algebras.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Tail recursion not lazy eval.
>>> >
>>> > I wish words meant what I meant "inside" when I think them, not
>>> > "outside" what they mean when I write them.
>>>
>>
-- Sent from /e/OS Mail.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-08-03 15:21 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-07-30 18:22 [TUHS] Re: Cool talk on Unix and Sendmail history, by Eric Allman Norman Wilson
2023-07-30 21:43 ` Rob Pike
2023-07-30 23:34 ` George Michaelson
2023-07-30 23:59 ` Erik E. Fair
2023-07-31 0:26 ` Warner Losh
2023-07-31 22:57 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2023-07-31 23:05 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-01 2:45 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2023-08-01 1:51 ` Niklas Karlsson
2023-08-01 2:47 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2023-08-01 3:20 ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-07-31 0:41 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-08-01 9:22 ` Marc Donner
2023-08-01 10:58 ` Erik E. Fair
2023-08-02 0:37 ` Dave Horsfall
2023-08-02 14:52 ` Ron Natalie
2023-08-02 21:14 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2023-08-02 22:20 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-08-02 22:37 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-02 23:49 ` Rich Salz
2023-08-03 0:51 ` [TUHS] Re: python Larry McVoy
2023-08-03 1:20 ` George Michaelson
2023-08-03 2:53 ` Bakul Shah
2023-08-03 2:55 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-08-03 3:24 ` George Michaelson
2023-08-03 3:32 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-03 3:55 ` Bakul Shah
2023-08-03 8:32 ` Rob Pike
2023-08-03 14:19 ` Bakul Shah
2023-08-03 14:56 ` Dan Halbert
2023-08-03 15:20 ` will.senn [this message]
2023-08-03 22:05 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-04 0:24 ` John Cowan
2023-08-04 15:17 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-05 4:44 ` Bakul Shah
2023-08-03 15:41 ` John Cowan
2023-08-03 2:07 ` Clem Cole
2023-08-03 2:21 ` Pete Wright via TUHS
2023-08-03 2:56 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-03 12:36 ` Mike Markowski
2023-08-03 13:29 ` Rob Pike
2023-08-03 15:24 ` emanuel stiebler
2023-08-03 15:39 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2023-08-04 1:01 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-04 1:28 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-08-04 1:58 ` Adam Thornton
2023-08-04 15:04 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-04 15:10 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-03 16:57 ` [TUHS] Re: [TULSA] " Phil Budne
2023-08-03 17:00 ` Rich Salz
2023-08-03 20:35 ` [TUHS] Split addressing (I/D) space (inspired by the death of the python... thread) Will Senn
2023-08-03 21:05 ` [TUHS] " Kenneth Goodwin
2023-08-03 21:10 ` Ronald Natalie
2023-08-03 21:16 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-03 21:24 ` Ronald Natalie
2023-08-03 22:34 ` Kenneth Goodwin
2023-08-03 21:05 ` Ronald Natalie
2023-08-03 21:44 ` Clem Cole
2023-08-03 22:08 ` Will Senn
2023-08-03 22:54 ` Clem Cole
2023-08-03 23:08 ` Dave Horsfall
2023-08-03 23:15 ` Clem Cole
2023-08-04 0:38 ` John Cowan
2023-08-03 17:29 ` [TUHS] Re: [TULSA] Re: python Alejandro Colomar
2023-08-03 17:51 ` John Cowan
2023-08-03 18:05 ` Alejandro Colomar
2023-08-03 21:29 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-03 23:55 ` [TUHS] printf (was: python) Alejandro Colomar
2023-08-04 16:06 ` [TUHS] " Dan Cross
2023-08-04 16:57 ` Alejandro Colomar
2023-08-04 21:16 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-03 21:02 ` [TUHS] Re: [TULSA] Re: python Steffen Nurpmeso
2023-08-03 23:47 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-03 23:54 ` Will Senn
2023-08-04 19:20 ` [TUHS] " Ed Bradford
2023-08-04 19:47 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-05 5:40 ` Ed Bradford
2023-08-02 23:33 ` [TUHS] Re: Cool talk on Unix and Sendmail history, by Eric Allman Dave Horsfall
2023-08-04 20:11 [TUHS] Re: python Noel Chiappa
2023-08-04 20:15 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-04 20:45 ` Adam Thornton
2023-08-04 21:17 Douglas McIlroy
2023-08-04 21:30 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-04 22:36 ` Rob Pike
2023-08-06 19:46 Norman Wilson
2023-08-07 6:48 ` Ed Bradford
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