* Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers
2020-01-18 0:32 [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers Paul Ruizendaal
@ 2020-01-18 0:36 ` Warner Losh
2020-01-18 0:50 ` Rich Morin
2020-01-18 19:25 ` Rich Morin
2020-01-19 17:40 ` [TUHS] CSRG report TR/3 (IPC Architecture) Rich Morin
2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2020-01-18 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul Ruizendaal; +Cc: TUHS main list
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On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 5:33 PM Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:
>
> Rich was kind enough to look through the Joyce papers to see if it
> contained "CSRG Tech Report 4: Proposals for Unix on the VAX”. It did.
>
> As list regulars will know I’ve been looking for that paper for years as
> it documents the early ideas for networking and IPC in what was to become
> 4.2BSD.
>
> It is an intriguing paper that discusses a network API that is imo fairly
> different from what ended up being in 4.1a and 4.2BSD. It confirms Kirk
> McKusick’s recollection that the select statement was modelled after the
> ADA select statement. It also confirms Clem Cole’s recollection that the
> initial ideas for 4.2BSB were significantly influenced by the ideas of
> Richard Rashid (Aleph/Accent/Mach).
>
> Besides IPC and networking, it also discusses file systems and a wide
> array of potential improvements in various other areas.
>
Awesome! Is that something that will be scanned in so we can all see it?
Warner
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* Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers
2020-01-18 0:32 [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers Paul Ruizendaal
2020-01-18 0:36 ` Warner Losh
@ 2020-01-18 19:25 ` Rich Morin
2020-01-18 21:38 ` reed
2020-01-19 17:40 ` [TUHS] CSRG report TR/3 (IPC Architecture) Rich Morin
2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Rich Morin @ 2020-01-18 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: TUHS main list; +Cc: Paul Ruizendaal
[ No good deed goes unpunished... -r ]
> On Jan 18, 2020, at 01:08, Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:
>
> At the bottom of page 6 TR/4 references TR/3:
>
> A more complete description of the motivation of the IPC architecture
> described here, measurements of a prototype implementation, comparisons
> with other work and a complete bibliography are given in CSRG TR/3: “An IPC
> Architecture for UNIX”.
>
> I hesitate to ask, but is the TR/3 report also in Jim’s papers?
> I’m not asking for a scan, just if it is there.
Would this do? FYI, it's about 50 pages, including a four-page bibliography.
An Architecture for Interprocess Communication in UNIX*
-- DRAFT of June 22, 1981 --
William Joy and Robert Fabry
Paul sez:
> Before yesterday I did not know that TR/3 existed and in my (arguable) view it is even a bigger find than TR/4, as it gives great insight how design trade-offs were perceived back in 1981.
Again, I scanned the paper and then Paul aggregated the scans into a single PDF.
It should be available here:
http://cfcl.com/private/CSRG_TR_3.pdf
-r
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers
2020-01-18 19:25 ` Rich Morin
@ 2020-01-18 21:38 ` reed
2020-01-18 22:35 ` Warner Losh
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: reed @ 2020-01-18 21:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rich Morin; +Cc: TUHS main list, Paul Ruizendaal
On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, Rich Morin wrote:
> [ No good deed goes unpunished... -r ]
Thanks again!
Do you have a bibliography or list of all the papers and books you have
in that collection?
I have a very very long list of things I am looking for, such as:
- "The Conversion of U.C. Berkeley Time Sharing Systems to UNIX Version
Seven" by Bob Kridle 1981;
- various Unix News 1975-1976;
- more 1970's Western Electric licensing examples; Univ. of California /
Berkeley; Univ. of Toronto, or any other 1970's "Unix" licenses. (An
example I am looking for is AT&T/USL vs. BSDI/Univ. of California June
1992 complaint Exhibit F "32V Software Agreement" dated April 1, 1979
(or Exhibit B to the DeFazio Affidavit)? (See 920724.complaint.txt and
more details in 930107.amicus.txt and 930108.oppose.txt.) Or maybe the
1981 relicense?
- 1970's release announcements of any Unix or any Berkeley Unix related
software (like Berkeley Pascal)
- "PWB/Unix overview and synopsis of facilities" 1977 by Dolotta and
Haight;
- M. Nielsen, "SUN Student Workstation System Overview" Computer
Science Department, Stanford Univ. 1981
- Shannon and Lyon's paper "4.2BSD on the Sun Workstation (or What we
Did on our Summer Vacation)(or How to Emulate a VAX on a 68000)" from
Winter 1983 Usenix/Unicom? (Sure seems like I found this but don't see
now.)
- BBN QTR "Combined Quarterly Technical Report" 18, 21, 22, 25, 28
Maybe we should make a TUHS wiki page of documents we are looking for?
(Or maybe there already is?)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers
2020-01-18 21:38 ` reed
@ 2020-01-18 22:35 ` Warner Losh
2020-01-18 23:22 ` Rich Morin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2020-01-18 22:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jeremy C. Reed; +Cc: TUHS main list, Paul Ruizendaal
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On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 3:23 PM <reed@reedmedia.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, Rich Morin wrote:
>
> > [ No good deed goes unpunished... -r ]
>
> - "PWB/Unix overview and synopsis of facilities" 1977 by Dolotta and
> Haight;
>
ACM published
An introduction to the Programmer's Workbench
<https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.5555/800253.807669>
- [image: T A Dolotta profile image]T. A. Dolotta
<https://dl.acm.org/profile/81100113027>,
- [image: John Russell Mashey profile image]J. R. Mashey
<https://dl.acm.org/profile/81100046339>
ICSE '76: Proceedings of the 2nd international conference on Software
engineering <https://dl.acm.org/doi/proceedings/10.5555/800253> October
1976, pp 164–168
There's about 6 or 7 PWB articles in those proceedings. Do you have copies
of those?
Warner
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* Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers
2020-01-18 22:35 ` Warner Losh
@ 2020-01-18 23:22 ` Rich Morin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Rich Morin @ 2020-01-18 23:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Warner Losh; +Cc: TUHS main list, Paul Ruizendaal
> On Jan 18, 2020, at 14:35, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
> There's about 6 or 7 PWB articles in those proceedings. Do you have copies of those?
The box I have from Jim Joyce only has smallish photocopies. I may have some conference
proceedings, but not the ones you mention. More generally, I would be wary of scanning
and publishing anything that ACM or IEEE claims to own. (sigh)
-r
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] CSRG report TR/3 (IPC Architecture)
2020-01-18 0:32 [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers Paul Ruizendaal
2020-01-18 0:36 ` Warner Losh
2020-01-18 19:25 ` Rich Morin
@ 2020-01-19 17:40 ` Rich Morin
2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Rich Morin @ 2020-01-19 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: TUHS main list; +Cc: Paul Ruizendaal
I think the following may have been missed, because folks thought it was more
discussion about the CSRG TR/4. Read on...
> On Jan 18, 2020, at 01:08, Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:
>
> At the bottom of page 6 TR/4 references TR/3:
>
> A more complete description of the motivation of the IPC architecture
> described here, measurements of a prototype implementation, comparisons
> with other work and a complete bibliography are given in CSRG TR/3: “An IPC
> Architecture for UNIX”.
This was also in the box: about 50 pages, including a four-page bibliography.
An Architecture for Interprocess Communication in UNIX*
-- DRAFT of June 22, 1981 --
William Joy and Robert Fabry
Paul sez:
> Before yesterday I did not know that TR/3 existed and in my (arguable) view
> it is even a bigger find than TR/4, as it gives great insight how design
> trade-offs were perceived back in 1981.
Again, I scanned the paper and then Paul aggregated the scans into a single PDF.
It should be available here:
http://cfcl.com/private/CSRG_TR_3.pdf
-r
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread