[TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[Paul Ruizendaal]

Rich was kind enough to look through the Joyce papers to see if it contained "CSRG Tech Report 4: Proposals for Unix on the VAX”. It did.

As list regulars will know I’ve been looking for that paper for years as it documents the early ideas for networking and IPC in what was to become 4.2BSD.

It is an intriguing paper that discusses a network API that is imo fairly different from what ended up being in 4.1a and 4.2BSD. It confirms Kirk McKusick’s recollection that the select statement was modelled after the ADA select statement. It also confirms Clem Cole’s recollection that the initial ideas for 4.2BSB were significantly influenced by the ideas of Richard Rashid (Aleph/Accent/Mach).

Besides IPC and networking, it also discusses file systems and a wide array of potential improvements in various other areas.

Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[Warner Losh]

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On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 5:33 PM Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:

>
> Rich was kind enough to look through the Joyce papers to see if it
> contained "CSRG Tech Report 4: Proposals for Unix on the VAX”. It did.
>
> As list regulars will know I’ve been looking for that paper for years as
> it documents the early ideas for networking and IPC in what was to become
> 4.2BSD.
>
> It is an intriguing paper that discusses a network API that is imo fairly
> different from what ended up being in 4.1a and 4.2BSD. It confirms Kirk
> McKusick’s recollection that the select statement was modelled after the
> ADA select statement. It also confirms Clem Cole’s recollection that the
> initial ideas for 4.2BSB were significantly influenced by the ideas of
> Richard Rashid (Aleph/Accent/Mach).
>
> Besides IPC and networking, it also discusses file systems and a wide
> array of potential improvements in various other areas.
>

Awesome! Is that something that will be scanned in so we can all see it?

Warner

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Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[Rich Morin]

> Awesome! Is that something that will be scanned in so we can all see it?

I scanned the paper and then Paul aggregated the scans into a single PDF.
It should be available here:

    http://cfcl.com/private/CSRG_TR_4.pdf

-r

Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[Clem Cole]

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Indeed many thanks.

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 7:51 PM Rich Morin <rdm@cfcl.com> wrote:

> > Awesome! Is that something that will be scanned in so we can all see it?
>
> I scanned the paper and then Paul aggregated the scans into a single PDF.
> It should be available here:
>
>     http://cfcl.com/private/CSRG_TR_4.pdf
>
> -r
>
>

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Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[Thomas Paulsen]

>I scanned the paper and then Paul aggregated the scans into a single PDF.
>It should be available here:
> http://cfcl.com/private/CSRG_TR_4.pdf
thanks for the link to an really important document!

Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[Rich Morin]

[ No good deed goes unpunished...  -r ]

> On Jan 18, 2020, at 01:08, Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:
> 
> At the bottom of page 6 TR/4 references TR/3:
> 
> A more complete description of the motivation of the IPC architecture
> described here, measurements of a prototype implementation, comparisons
> with other work and a complete bibliography are given in CSRG TR/3: “An IPC
> Architecture for UNIX”.
> 
> I hesitate to ask, but is the TR/3 report also in Jim’s papers?
> I’m not asking for a scan, just if it is there.

Would this do?  FYI, it's about 50 pages, including a four-page bibliography.

An Architecture for Interprocess Communication in UNIX*
-- DRAFT of June 22, 1981 --
William Joy and Robert Fabry

Paul sez:
> Before yesterday I did not know that TR/3 existed and in my (arguable) view it is even a bigger find than TR/4, as it gives great insight how design trade-offs were perceived back in 1981.

Again, I scanned the paper and then Paul aggregated the scans into a single PDF.
It should be available here:

   http://cfcl.com/private/CSRG_TR_3.pdf

-r

Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[reed]

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, Rich Morin wrote:

> [ No good deed goes unpunished...  -r ]

Thanks again!
Do you have a bibliography or list of all the papers and books you have 
in that collection?

I have a very very long list of things I am looking for, such as:

- "The Conversion of U.C. Berkeley Time Sharing Systems to UNIX Version 
Seven" by Bob Kridle 1981;

- various Unix News 1975-1976;

- more 1970's Western Electric licensing examples; Univ. of California / 
Berkeley; Univ. of Toronto, or any other 1970's "Unix" licenses. (An 
example I am looking for is AT&T/USL vs. BSDI/Univ. of California June 
1992 complaint Exhibit F "32V Software Agreement" dated April 1, 1979 
(or Exhibit B to the DeFazio Affidavit)? (See 920724.complaint.txt and 
more details in 930107.amicus.txt and 930108.oppose.txt.)  Or maybe the 
1981 relicense?

- 1970's release announcements of any Unix or any Berkeley Unix related 
software (like Berkeley Pascal)

- "PWB/Unix overview and synopsis of facilities" 1977 by Dolotta and 
Haight;

- M. Nielsen, "SUN Student Workstation System Overview" Computer 
Science Department, Stanford Univ. 1981

- Shannon and Lyon's paper "4.2BSD on the Sun Workstation (or What we 
Did on our Summer Vacation)(or How to Emulate a VAX on a 68000)" from 
Winter 1983 Usenix/Unicom?  (Sure seems like I found this but don't see 
now.)

- BBN QTR "Combined Quarterly Technical Report" 18, 21, 22, 25, 28

Maybe we should make a TUHS wiki page of documents we are looking for? 
(Or maybe there already is?)

Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[Warner Losh]

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On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 3:23 PM <reed@reedmedia.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, Rich Morin wrote:
>
> > [ No good deed goes unpunished...  -r ]
>
> - "PWB/Unix overview and synopsis of facilities" 1977 by Dolotta and
> Haight;
>

ACM published

An introduction to the Programmer's Workbench
<https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.5555/800253.807669>

   - [image: T A Dolotta profile image]T. A. Dolotta
   <https://dl.acm.org/profile/81100113027>,
   - [image: John Russell Mashey profile image]J. R. Mashey
   <https://dl.acm.org/profile/81100046339>

ICSE '76: Proceedings of the 2nd international conference on Software
engineering <https://dl.acm.org/doi/proceedings/10.5555/800253> October
1976, pp 164–168

There's about 6 or 7 PWB articles in those proceedings. Do you have copies
of those?


Warner

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Re: [TUHS] CSRG report TR/4 was in Jim Joyce papers

[Rich Morin]

> On Jan 18, 2020, at 14:35, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> 
> There's about 6 or 7 PWB articles in those proceedings. Do you have copies of those?

The box I have from Jim Joyce only has smallish photocopies.  I may have some conference
proceedings, but not the ones you mention.  More generally, I would be wary of scanning
and publishing anything that ACM or IEEE claims to own. (sigh)

-r

[TUHS] CSRG report TR/3 (IPC Architecture)

[Rich Morin]

I think the following may have been missed, because folks thought it was more
discussion about the CSRG TR/4.  Read on...

> On Jan 18, 2020, at 01:08, Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:
> 
> At the bottom of page 6 TR/4 references TR/3:
> 
> A more complete description of the motivation of the IPC architecture
> described here, measurements of a prototype implementation, comparisons
> with other work and a complete bibliography are given in CSRG TR/3: “An IPC
> Architecture for UNIX”.

This was also in the box: about 50 pages, including a four-page bibliography.

An Architecture for Interprocess Communication in UNIX*
-- DRAFT of June 22, 1981 --
William Joy and Robert Fabry

Paul sez:
> Before yesterday I did not know that TR/3 existed and in my (arguable) view
> it is even a bigger find than TR/4, as it gives great insight how design
> trade-offs were perceived back in 1981.

Again, I scanned the paper and then Paul aggregated the scans into a single PDF.
It should be available here:

  http://cfcl.com/private/CSRG_TR_3.pdf

-r