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From: Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>
To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: [TUHS] The era of general purpose computing (Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 12:01:43 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <BDDE0D7F-E886-4E38-83AE-F7542976060A@iitbombay.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAP2nic2h1cxi-iXDty8mZ+oXs89wGRDuHOmD=nxjWAPRvU1teA@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 19, 2023, at 9:19 AM, Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The era of general-purpose computers won't end.

What I meant is it will likely become much more
niche just like mainframe programming.

What % of people running Chromebooks, Android or IOS
do any real programming on it? Even for laptops and
desktops that % is quite low. Most people run just a
few apps.

> The problem is that a great many single-purpose items are (and increasingly will be), for reasons of scale/developer availability/familiarity, general-purpose computers that come from the factory supposedly packaged to do only one thing.
> 
> But all of them will have brains that will let them do arbitrary things.  Some of these things will be done at the behest of the organizations controlling the society where the developers come from.  Some of them will be done at the behest of transnational organized crime rings.  Some will be done by enthusiasts.  But I don't think we are too far from the world where you can't trust your toothbrush unless you carved it yourself from a stick with a knife that's been in your family for generations.
> 
> But really, this is all just "Reflections on Trusting Trust," which was, what, 1984?

What I was reflecting on is there may not be a real
need for virtual memory if you are running just a few
apps and memory is plentiful!

We have relied on virtual memory for creating protection
boundaries but that has not been enough. In Unix a child
process has all the privileges a parent has. If instead the
permission model for a new process is to permit only what
it needs[1], including memory, you can get rid of containers
(such as docker) and jails (as on FreeBSD). What is more,
this can be done without virtual memory. Further, the same
model can be extended to distributed computing. If this
becomes reality, why wouldn't vendors go for that?

So yes, the hardware will be capable of general purpose
computing (Turing complete?) but will vendors allow access
to it?

[1] As Capability folks say, this is the Principle Of
Least Authority or POLA.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-01-19 20:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 101+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-01-18  9:43 [TUHS] " arnold
2023-01-18 14:46 ` [TUHS] " Phil Budne
2023-01-18 14:55   ` Ralph Corderoy
2023-01-19 14:42     ` Liam Proven
2023-01-19 15:04       ` Warner Losh
2023-01-19 15:15         ` Liam Proven
2023-01-18 15:13 ` arnold
2023-01-18 15:14   ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-18 16:10     ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-18 16:19       ` Stuff Received
2023-01-18 16:19       ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-18 16:27         ` [TUHS] Maintenance mode on AIX Ron Natalie
2023-01-18 16:38           ` [TUHS] " Larry McVoy
2023-01-18 16:59             ` Clem Cole
2023-01-18 17:08               ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-18 17:21                 ` Will Senn
2023-01-18 19:50                   ` David Barto
2023-01-19 14:25                   ` Liam Proven
2023-01-18 20:34             ` Arno Griffioen via TUHS
2023-01-18 20:50               ` Brad Spencer
2023-01-18 16:36         ` [TUHS] Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode Will Senn
2023-01-18 16:42           ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-18 16:57             ` Will Senn
2023-01-18 17:16               ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-18 17:25                 ` Will Senn
2023-01-18 21:09                   ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-18 21:18                     ` Kevin Bowling
2023-01-19  1:13                     ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-19 15:04                     ` Liam Proven
2023-01-18 19:25             ` Dave Horsfall
2023-01-19 15:02             ` Liam Proven
2023-01-19 15:12               ` arnold
2023-01-19 17:46                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2023-01-19 18:24               ` Doug McIntyre
2023-01-19 19:44                 ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-20 13:09                 ` Liam Proven
2023-01-20 14:37                   ` Harald Arnesen
2023-01-18 16:48         ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-19  0:54         ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-19  1:09           ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-20 18:38             ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-20 18:57               ` Dan Cross
2023-01-20 19:48                 ` John Cowan
2023-01-20 20:04                   ` Dan Cross
2023-01-20 19:08               ` Kevin Bowling
2023-01-19  1:17           ` Marc Donner
2023-01-19  1:26             ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-20 15:53               ` Marc Donner
2023-01-19 14:45         ` Liam Proven
2023-01-19 15:05           ` Dan Cross
2023-01-19 16:59             ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-19 19:33               ` [TUHS] The death of general purpose computers, was - " Will Senn
2023-01-19 20:09                 ` [TUHS] " segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-19 20:59                   ` Rich Morin
2023-01-19 21:11                     ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-20 13:30                   ` Liam Proven
2023-01-20 15:51                     ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-20 15:56                       ` Rich Morin
2023-01-20 16:24                         ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-20 18:21                           ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-20 18:33                             ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-18 18:58       ` [TUHS] " Steve Nickolas
2023-01-19  8:02     ` arnold
2023-01-19 15:04       ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-19 15:20         ` Warner Losh
2023-01-19 15:23           ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-19 16:40           ` Dan Cross
2023-01-19 16:58             ` Warner Losh
2023-01-19 23:16               ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-20  0:37                 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-20  1:22                   ` Steve Nickolas
2023-01-19 17:02             ` Steve Nickolas
2023-01-19 17:19               ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-19 18:22                 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-19 19:07                   ` Kevin Bowling
2023-01-19 21:08                     ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-19 20:01                 ` Bakul Shah [this message]
2023-01-19 22:23                   ` [TUHS] Re: The era of general purpose computing (Re: " Luther Johnson
2023-01-20  1:10                     ` John Cowan
2023-01-20  1:15                       ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-21 18:12                         ` arnold
2023-01-21 18:43                           ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-19 22:29                   ` Rich Salz
2023-01-19 22:39                     ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-19 22:41                       ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-19 22:40                     ` Jon Steinhart
2023-01-19 23:24                     ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-19 23:44                       ` Rich Salz
2023-01-19 23:51                         ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-20  0:20                           ` [TUHS] owner maintenance (Re: " Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2023-01-20  0:36                             ` [TUHS] " Larry McVoy
2023-01-20  0:47                         ` [TUHS] " Yeechang Lee
2023-01-20  0:55                           ` George Michaelson
2023-01-20  1:05                             ` Rich Salz
2023-01-20  1:10                               ` George Michaelson
2023-01-20  2:27                     ` Dan Cross
2023-01-18 21:20 ` [TUHS] " Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-18 21:27   ` Kevin Bowling
2023-01-19  2:17   ` Jim Carpenter
2023-01-19 21:15 ` Will Senn
2023-01-19 21:34   ` Drew Diver

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