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From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Ron Minnich <rminnich@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix APIs: elegant or not?
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 10:41:53 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAC20D2N_AnLUYeSDAs+G3QLZbOxja-hExA_FdAuMasUb8ndesw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAP6exYKfkS9J8Mgv0zP_E8xw5Tfg4Eii7iwd1LSbYG+DmgZXsQ@mail.gmail.com>

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On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:

> In my view, what went wrong with Unix networking 40 years ago is that it
> broke from the Unix model, i.e. that resources are accessed via path
> names, and went with binary descriptors as paths.
>
Agreed.

And I think somthing else where P9 differed from UNIX was dealing with OOB
(control) information (*i.e.* ioctl(2) was a terrible misstake).   Dennis
and Ken created ioctl(2) with v7 as a generalization of stty/gtty from the
TTY handler.  At the time, it seemed like a reasonable way to handle those
'small things that need to be tweeked - like baud rate or canonicalization;
but ioctl(2) quickly got abused as the universal end-around, and those
things caused also sorts of issues (also being a binary interface only made
it worse, although on the PDP-11 it made sense for size reasons).
 Creating a seperate interface from the 'file' to orchestrate/control the
I/O and controlling that as a set of strings not binaries, seems like a more
sane idea.
ᐧ

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  reply	other threads:[~2018-11-01 15:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-31  4:38 Warren Toomey
2018-10-31 15:47 ` Paul Winalski
2018-10-31 17:22   ` Clem Cole
2018-10-31 19:33     ` Lawrence Stewart
2018-10-31 20:57   ` G. Branden Robinson
2018-10-31 21:31   ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-01  7:42     ` Pierre DAVID
2018-11-01 10:20       ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-01 12:57         ` Clem Cole
2018-11-01 14:19           ` ron minnich
2018-11-01 14:41             ` Clem Cole [this message]
2018-11-01 16:43               ` Warner Losh
2018-11-01 16:48                 ` ron minnich
2018-11-01 16:56                   ` Warner Losh
2018-11-02  5:24                   ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-04 10:53         ` Chris Hanson
2018-11-04 15:34           ` ron minnich
2018-11-04 17:06             ` Warner Losh
2018-11-04 20:00               ` ron minnich
2018-11-04 18:52           ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-04 10:49 ` Chris Hanson
2018-11-04 12:28   ` arnold
2018-11-04 21:34     ` Chris Hanson
2018-11-05 14:11       ` Donald ODona
2018-11-04 13:35   ` Warner Losh
2018-11-04 19:47   ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-01 15:39 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-04 22:29 Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-04 22:37 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-05  4:04 ` Dave Horsfall

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