From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix APIs: elegant or not?
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 10:43:54 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CANCZdfr9bEuL3c7ZKd3-6cj18VRcP9+jjeXLRXfgQTixzmhG6Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC20D2N_AnLUYeSDAs+G3QLZbOxja-hExA_FdAuMasUb8ndesw@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1328 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:38 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In my view, what went wrong with Unix networking 40 years ago is that it
>> broke from the Unix model, i.e. that resources are accessed via path
>> names, and went with binary descriptors as paths.
>>
> Agreed.
>
> And I think somthing else where P9 differed from UNIX was dealing with OOB
> (control) information (*i.e.* ioctl(2) was a terrible misstake). Dennis
> and Ken created ioctl(2) with v7 as a generalization of stty/gtty from the
> TTY handler. At the time, it seemed like a reasonable way to handle those
> 'small things that need to be tweeked - like baud rate or canonicalization;
> but ioctl(2) quickly got abused as the universal end-around, and those
> things caused also sorts of issues (also being a binary interface only
> made it worse, although on the PDP-11 it made sense for size reasons).
> Creating a seperate interface from the 'file' to orchestrate/control the
> I/O and controlling that as a set of strings not binaries, seems like a
> more sane idea.
>
There's another school of thought too that says the kernel has no business
parsing strings with all the security implications of doing so...
Warner
> ᐧ
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3209 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-11-01 17:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-10-31 4:38 Warren Toomey
2018-10-31 15:47 ` Paul Winalski
2018-10-31 17:22 ` Clem Cole
2018-10-31 19:33 ` Lawrence Stewart
2018-10-31 20:57 ` G. Branden Robinson
2018-10-31 21:31 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-01 7:42 ` Pierre DAVID
2018-11-01 10:20 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-01 12:57 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-01 14:19 ` ron minnich
2018-11-01 14:41 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-01 16:43 ` Warner Losh [this message]
2018-11-01 16:48 ` ron minnich
2018-11-01 16:56 ` Warner Losh
2018-11-02 5:24 ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-04 10:53 ` Chris Hanson
2018-11-04 15:34 ` ron minnich
2018-11-04 17:06 ` Warner Losh
2018-11-04 20:00 ` ron minnich
2018-11-04 18:52 ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-04 10:49 ` Chris Hanson
2018-11-04 12:28 ` arnold
2018-11-04 21:34 ` Chris Hanson
2018-11-05 14:11 ` Donald ODona
2018-11-04 13:35 ` Warner Losh
2018-11-04 19:47 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-01 15:39 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-04 22:29 Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-04 22:37 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-05 4:04 ` Dave Horsfall
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=CANCZdfr9bEuL3c7ZKd3-6cj18VRcP9+jjeXLRXfgQTixzmhG6Q@mail.gmail.com \
--to=imp@bsdimp.com \
--cc=clemc@ccc.com \
--cc=tuhs@tuhs.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).