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* [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re:  Happy birthday, 386BSD!)
  2019-07-14  6:53 ` Jason Stevens
@ 2019-07-14  8:17   ` Michael Huff
  2019-07-14  9:07     ` Jason Stevens
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Huff @ 2019-07-14  8:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

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Hi

Personally, I'm very grateful for the amount of time you've spent not 
simply finding and posting the things you do (this, cmu mach, the BSD 
and Unix stuff) but also the blog entries you write that spell out the 
steps you take to get it all running.

As someone who came along much later (slackware 3.5?, freebsd 
2.2-something) but has a lot of interest/curiosity about what the older 
days were like it's very helpful and illuminating.

Oh! ...and of course, Happy Birthday 386BSD!

Regards,

-a Virtuallyfun fan/reader

On 7/13/2019 10:53 PM, Jason Stevens wrote:
> Getting this to build was such a tremendous effort.  Although last 
> time I revisited my 386BSD 0.0 work even under emulation it ran too 
> fast and had issues.
>
> But it's really a tremendous effort what Bill and Lynne had done, by 
> pushing out not only a running version of Net/2 but a self hosting 
> version of Net/2 for the lowly and utterly common and commodity 386.
>
> Its a shame the BSDSS and later N2SS from CMU (ports of 4.4 / Net/2) 
> to Mach 3.  But that USL vs BSDi/CSRG lawsuit cut short what should 
> have the shot heard around the world moment.
>
> It was shockingly hard to chase down 386BSD  0.0 just as it was to 
> find NetBSD 0.8 and 0.9
>
> Im just sad I was in the dark about BSD at that time, all the Unix 
> people I knew hid behind their RS/6000s and SUN workstations while me 
> and all my peers were all all running Linux.
>
> But there is nothing like the feeling of running make world, or 
> building a custom kernel when compared to just running a binary set.
>
> Since 0.1 is more capable, here is a download for Windows users for it 
> ready to run.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/4BSD%20under%20Windows/v0.4/386BSD-0.1.exe/download
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 1:57 PM +0800, "Dave Horsfall" 
> <dave@horsfall.org <mailto:dave@horsfall.org>> wrote:
>
>     386BSD was released on this day in 1992, when William and Lynne Jolitz
>     started the Open Source movement; well, that's what my notes say, and
>     corrections are welcome (I know that Gilmore likes to take credit for just
>     about everything).
>
>     -- Dave
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re:  Happy birthday, 386BSD!)
  2019-07-14  8:17   ` [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re: Happy birthday, 386BSD!) Michael Huff
@ 2019-07-14  9:07     ` Jason Stevens
  2019-07-14 17:47       ` Adam Thornton
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Jason Stevens @ 2019-07-14  9:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Huff; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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It's always nice to get such nice fan mail.   Ever since the early days of SIMH and PUPS I've been a fan of the idea of being able to help others discover and run ancient Unix. 




It's amazing how fast things moved when looking back at the 5 years after the wide stream adoption of the 80386, and how many things have risen and fallen in that time period, how many failed to only come back and win. 




1988-1993 was so incredibly pivotal, much more than say 2014-2019.  I wonder if we will ever see such a powerful window of change like that ever again. 




Definitely a happy birthday to 386BSD!






From: Michael Huff


Sent: Sunday, July 14, 4:18 PM


Subject: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re:  Happy birthday, 386BSD!)


To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org






Hi


Personally, I'm very grateful for the amount of time you've spent not simply finding and posting the things you do (this, cmu mach, the BSD and Unix stuff) but also the blog entries you write that spell out the steps you take to get it all running. 


As someone who came along much later (slackware 3.5?, freebsd 2.2-something) but has a lot of interest/curiosity about what the older days were like it's very helpful and illuminating. 


Oh! ...and of course, Happy Birthday 386BSD!


Regards,


-a Virtuallyfun fan/reader


On 7/13/2019 10:53 PM, Jason Stevens wrote:


Getting this to build was such a tremendous effort.  Although last time I revisited my 386BSD 0.0 work even under emulation it ran too fast and had issues. 




But it's really a tremendous effort what Bill and Lynne had done, by pushing out not only a running version of Net/2 but a self hosting version of Net/2 for the lowly and utterly common and commodity 386.




Its a shame the BSDSS and later N2SS from CMU (ports of 4.4 / Net/2) to Mach 3.  But that USL vs BSDi/CSRG lawsuit cut short what should have the shot heard around the world moment. 




It was shockingly hard to chase down 386BSD  0.0 just as it was to find NetBSD 0.8 and 0.9




Im just sad I was in the dark about BSD at that time, all the Unix people I knew hid behind their RS/6000s and SUN workstations while me and all my peers were all all running Linux. 




But there is nothing like the feeling of running make world, or building a custom kernel when compared to just running a binary set. 




Since 0.1 is more capable, here is a download for Windows users for it ready to run. 




https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/4BSD%20under%20Windows/v0.4/386BSD-0.1.exe/download








On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 1:57 PM +0800, "Dave Horsfall" <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:




386BSD was released on this day in 1992, when William and Lynne Jolitz started the Open Source movement; well, that's what my notes say, and corrections are welcome (I know that Gilmore likes to take credit for just about everything). -- Dave 









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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re: Happy birthday, 386BSD!)
  2019-07-14  9:07     ` Jason Stevens
@ 2019-07-14 17:47       ` Adam Thornton
  2019-07-15  1:54         ` Jason Stevens
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thornton @ 2019-07-14 17:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Jason Stevens jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com via
<https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1311182?hl=en>
outdoorexpressionslimited.onmicrosoft.com wrote:
> 1988-1993 was so incredibly pivotal, much more than say 2014-2019.  I
wonder if we will ever see such a powerful window of change like that ever
again.

We did but no one was paying attention.  It was 2007-2010.  The iPhone and
Android were introduced, and the computing world went from an
Intel-architecture monopoly (which it had pretty much become by 2005) to an
Intel/ARM duopoly (because Intel and AMD focused too much on performance
and not enough on making a low-power implementation of the architecture; an
Intel-compatible chip *could* have won the mobile wars, but didn't).  In
the next couple years iPhone and Android (both on ARM) massacred all of the
mobile competition.

That also meant that the underlying OS for mobile devices became, you
guessed it, Unix (or at least something that smells a lot like it).  Which
is weird, given that something designed for single-threaded composible
text-filtering operations is now running almost all of the world's
multithreaded user-facing graphical applications, but that's the vagaries
of history for you.

Adam

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 2:08 AM Jason Stevens <
jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:

> It's always nice to get such nice fan mail.   Ever since the early days of
> SIMH and PUPS I've been a fan of the idea of being able to help others
> discover and run ancient Unix.
>
> It's amazing how fast things moved when looking back at the 5 years after
> the wide stream adoption of the 80386, and how many things have risen and
> fallen in that time period, how many failed to only come back and win.
>
> 1988-1993 was so incredibly pivotal, much more than say 2014-2019.  I
> wonder if we will ever see such a powerful window of change like that ever
> again.
>
> Definitely a happy birthday to 386BSD!
>
>
> From: Michael Huff
> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 4:18 PM
> Subject: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re:  Happy birthday, 386BSD!)
> To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
>
>
> Hi
> Personally, I'm very grateful for the amount of time you've spent not
> simply finding and posting the things you do (this, cmu mach, the BSD and
> Unix stuff) but also the blog entries you write that spell out the steps
> you take to get it all running.
> As someone who came along much later (slackware 3.5?, freebsd
> 2.2-something) but has a lot of interest/curiosity about what the older
> days were like it's very helpful and illuminating.
> Oh! ...and of course, Happy Birthday 386BSD!
> Regards,
> -a Virtuallyfun fan/reader
> On 7/13/2019 10:53 PM, Jason Stevens wrote:
> Getting this to build was such a tremendous effort.  Although last time I
> revisited my 386BSD 0.0 work even under emulation it ran too fast and had
> issues.
>
> But it's really a tremendous effort what Bill and Lynne had done, by
> pushing out not only a running version of Net/2 but a self hosting version
> of Net/2 for the lowly and utterly common and commodity 386.
>
> Its a shame the BSDSS and later N2SS from CMU (ports of 4.4 / Net/2) to
> Mach 3.  But that USL vs BSDi/CSRG lawsuit cut short what should have the
> shot heard around the world moment.
>
> It was shockingly hard to chase down 386BSD  0.0 just as it was to find
> NetBSD 0.8 and 0.9
>
> Im just sad I was in the dark about BSD at that time, all the Unix people
> I knew hid behind their RS/6000s and SUN workstations while me and all my
> peers were all all running Linux.
>
> But there is nothing like the feeling of running make world, or building a
> custom kernel when compared to just running a binary set.
>
> Since 0.1 is more capable, here is a download for Windows users for it
> ready to run.
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/4BSD%20under%20Windows/v0.4/386BSD-0.1.exe/download
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 1:57 PM +0800, "Dave Horsfall" <dave@horsfall.org>
> wrote:
>
> 386BSD was released on this day in 1992, when William and Lynne Jolitz
> started the Open Source movement; well, that's what my notes say, and
> corrections are welcome (I know that Gilmore likes to take credit for just
> about everything). -- Dave
>
>
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re: Happy birthday, 386BSD!)
@ 2019-07-14 19:19 jnc
  2019-07-15  9:33 ` Wesley Parish
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: jnc @ 2019-07-14 19:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs; +Cc: jnc

    > From: Adam Thornton

    > something designed for single-threaded composible text-filtering
    > operations is now running almost all of the world's multithreaded
    > user-facing graphical applications, but that's the vagaries of history
    > for you.

It's a perfect example of my aphorism, "The hallmark of truly great
architecture is not how well it does the things it was designed to do, but how
well it does things it was never expected to handle."

       Noel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re: Happy birthday, 386BSD!)
  2019-07-14 17:47       ` Adam Thornton
@ 2019-07-15  1:54         ` Jason Stevens
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Jason Stevens @ 2019-07-15  1:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Adam Thornton

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The crazy thing about say the rise and fall of Danger (NetBSD) you had BSD+Mach (NeXTSTEP) striking back on the iPhone, the amazing adoption of Linux on the Android front and the spectacular failure of Microsoft and their stop gap OS, Windows CE (which is without a doubt one of the biggest mistakes they ever made) and how NT/OS2 / Windows NT also made it to mobile space but was too late to the market and withdrawn. 




Although the race to bring computers to the masses via smartphones certainly was a big deal, but it was all the same players of the '88-93 wars. 




The real surprise is how a rigid Linux distribution found such wide spread adoption, how NeXT finally found widespread adoption, and how NT was unable to lock in corporate middleware unlike how it did on the desktop. 




I've owned them all, the danger sidekick was so amazing but the lack of SDK's was embarrassing, then Microsoft bought them and effectively dismantled them (anyone remember the Kin?) which really showed their lost ways.  Once rhr iPhone had been jailbreaked being able to ssh in and out of the phone was amazing, but for me the lockdown was just too much. CE has been so neglected that ie4 in 2007 was such a joke.  Android was a rough ride, but it was available globally with wildly varying apps but it had so much buzz outside of western Europe and North America.  Windows phone was a dud until they finally got the NT kernel running but by then they had changed API directions and platforms so much they alienated everyone.  I still love my Lumia 1020.




Its no wonder that USL has no dog in the hunt. Just like how whatever modern sco is called repackaging FreeBSD. 




From: Adam Thornton


Sent: Monday, July 15, 1:48 AM


Subject: Re: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re: Happy birthday, 386BSD!)


To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society






Jason Stevens jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com via outdoorexpressionslimited.onmicrosoft.com wrote:


> 1988-1993 was so incredibly pivotal, much more than say 2014-2019.  I wonder if we will ever see such a powerful window of change like that ever again. 




We did but no one was paying attention.  It was 2007-2010.  The iPhone and Android were introduced, and the computing world went from an Intel-architecture monopoly (which it had pretty much become by 2005) to an Intel/ARM duopoly (because Intel and AMD focused too much on performance and not enough on making a low-power implementation of the architecture; an Intel-compatible chip *could* have won the mobile wars, but didn't).  In the next couple years iPhone and Android (both on ARM) massacred all of the mobile competition.




That also meant that the underlying OS for mobile devices became, you guessed it, Unix (or at least something that smells a lot like it).  Which is weird, given that something designed for single-threaded composible text-filtering operations is now running almost all of the world's multithreaded user-facing graphical applications, but that's the vagaries of history for you.




Adam




On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 2:08 AM Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:


It's always nice to get such nice fan mail.   Ever since the early days of SIMH and PUPS I've been a fan of the idea of being able to help others discover and run ancient Unix. 




It's amazing how fast things moved when looking back at the 5 years after the wide stream adoption of the 80386, and how many things have risen and fallen in that time period, how many failed to only come back and win. 




1988-1993 was so incredibly pivotal, much more than say 2014-2019.  I wonder if we will ever see such a powerful window of change like that ever again. 




Definitely a happy birthday to 386BSD!






From: Michael Huff


Sent: Sunday, July 14, 4:18 PM


Subject: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re:  Happy birthday, 386BSD!)


To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org






Hi


Personally, I'm very grateful for the amount of time you've spent not simply finding and posting the things you do (this, cmu mach, the BSD and Unix stuff) but also the blog entries you write that spell out the steps you take to get it all running. 


As someone who came along much later (slackware 3.5?, freebsd 2.2-something) but has a lot of interest/curiosity about what the older days were like it's very helpful and illuminating. 


Oh! ...and of course, Happy Birthday 386BSD!


Regards,


-a Virtuallyfun fan/reader


On 7/13/2019 10:53 PM, Jason Stevens wrote:


Getting this to build was such a tremendous effort.  Although last time I revisited my 386BSD 0.0 work even under emulation it ran too fast and had issues. 




But it's really a tremendous effort what Bill and Lynne had done, by pushing out not only a running version of Net/2 but a self hosting version of Net/2 for the lowly and utterly common and commodity 386.




Its a shame the BSDSS and later N2SS from CMU (ports of 4.4 / Net/2) to Mach 3.  But that USL vs BSDi/CSRG lawsuit cut short what should have the shot heard around the world moment. 




It was shockingly hard to chase down 386BSD  0.0 just as it was to find NetBSD 0.8 and 0.9




Im just sad I was in the dark about BSD at that time, all the Unix people I knew hid behind their RS/6000s and SUN workstations while me and all my peers were all all running Linux. 




But there is nothing like the feeling of running make world, or building a custom kernel when compared to just running a binary set. 




Since 0.1 is more capable, here is a download for Windows users for it ready to run. 




https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/4BSD%20under%20Windows/v0.4/386BSD-0.1.exe/download








On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 1:57 PM +0800, "Dave Horsfall" <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:





386BSD was released on this day in 1992, when William and Lynne Jolitz started the Open Source movement; well, that's what my notes say, and corrections are welcome (I know that Gilmore likes to take credit for just about everything). -- Dave 

















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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re: Happy birthday, 386BSD!)
  2019-07-14 19:19 jnc
@ 2019-07-15  9:33 ` Wesley Parish
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Wesley Parish @ 2019-07-15  9:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Noel Chiappa; +Cc: tuhs

I think that's the hallmark of great engineering, period. Mechanical,
civil, electrical ... most probably gravitational if our species ever
gets that far ... :)

Wesley Parish

On 7/15/19, Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
>     > From: Adam Thornton
>
>     > something designed for single-threaded composible text-filtering
>     > operations is now running almost all of the world's multithreaded
>     > user-facing graphical applications, but that's the vagaries of
> history
>     > for you.
>
> It's a perfect example of my aphorism, "The hallmark of truly great
> architecture is not how well it does the things it was designed to do, but
> how
> well it does things it was never expected to handle."
>
>        Noel
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2019-07-14  5:56 [TUHS] Happy birthday, 386BSD! Dave Horsfall
2019-07-14  6:53 ` Jason Stevens
2019-07-14  8:17   ` [TUHS] Thanks for Virtuallyfun! (was Re: Happy birthday, 386BSD!) Michael Huff
2019-07-14  9:07     ` Jason Stevens
2019-07-14 17:47       ` Adam Thornton
2019-07-15  1:54         ` Jason Stevens
2019-07-14 19:19 jnc
2019-07-15  9:33 ` Wesley Parish

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