From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 11:57:44 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CANCZdfoq_kKTzqP=99QrMeZd5SZNLRJH+H8ccFkjKi=f9AFadg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YOCgQkwbz8Xf8ap9@mit.edu>
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On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 11:45 AM Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 03, 2021 at 09:20:57AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote:
> >
> > Systemd is both good and bad.
>
> I agree with most of what you assess as "good" and "bad" with systemd.
> However...
>
> > It uses ersatz data formats that are abjectly
> > horrible. It uses binary logging, which means that one cannot use the
> full
> > complement of Unix text filters to inspect logs....
>
> To be fair, systemd isn't the first. BSD's sar program uses a binary
> log file.
>
You mean System V's sar program? BSD has never had a sar program.
It's not in any of the CSRG releases, nor in any of {Free,Net,Open}BSD
systems that are around today.
It first appeared in System Vr1, and was in each of the following releases
if the listings of files on the net are any indication.
> I'm not sure whether it's BSD's fault or only after it was pulled into
> the systat package for Linux, but the binary format for the sar file
> is (a) not self-describing, (b) not backwards compatible, and (c) not
> stable between different versions, such that if you copy /var/log/sa/saNN
> the files from one system and try to interpret it on another system, you
> need to make sure that other system has the same version of sar installed.
>
Sounds awful...
Warner
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-07-03 17:58 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 109+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-07-02 21:24 Nelson H. F. Beebe
2021-07-02 21:36 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-02 21:56 ` Henry Bent
2021-07-02 23:12 ` Steve Nickolas
2021-07-02 23:49 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-03 13:34 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-03 13:56 ` Richard Salz
2021-07-03 12:04 ` Thomas Paulsen
2021-07-03 13:20 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-03 17:37 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-03 17:57 ` Warner Losh [this message]
2021-07-03 18:10 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-03 20:02 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-04 0:47 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-04 4:36 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-04 14:56 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-04 16:07 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-04 20:10 ` David Barto
2021-07-05 0:25 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 1:23 ` John Cowan
2021-07-04 12:48 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-05 7:14 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-05 16:26 ` John Cowan
2021-07-06 23:17 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-06 23:47 ` Steve Nickolas
2021-07-06 23:49 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-06 23:48 ` John Cowan
2021-07-07 0:46 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-07 0:58 ` George Michaelson
2021-07-07 2:48 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-07 18:32 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-07 20:50 ` Michael Kjörling
2021-07-08 6:46 ` [TUHS] Overgrown ffox (was: The Unix shell: a 50-year view) Tomasz Rola
2021-07-08 13:59 ` Derek Fawcus
2021-07-08 19:25 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-08 19:37 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-08 20:40 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-08 22:23 ` Kevin Bowling
2021-07-08 21:47 ` [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-09 20:14 ` Michael Kjörling
2021-07-07 13:54 ` Tony Finch
2021-07-06 16:05 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-09 22:19 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-04 20:10 ` Tony Finch
2021-07-05 3:59 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-05 15:08 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-05 3:52 ` Bakul Shah
2021-07-04 18:17 ` John Dow via TUHS
2021-07-04 19:46 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 1:33 ` Noel Hunt
2021-07-05 2:38 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 2:51 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-05 3:03 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 3:01 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 5:22 ` Noel Hunt
2021-07-06 5:10 ` Nevin Liber
2021-07-06 13:30 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-06 16:23 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-07 1:57 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-07 2:52 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-07 5:19 ` Andrew Warkentin
2021-07-07 18:28 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-07-10 11:51 ` [TUHS] " Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-10 13:54 ` Henry Bent
2021-07-10 14:12 ` Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-10 16:57 ` [TUHS] Death by bug [formerly The Unix shell: a 50-year view] Jon Steinhart
2021-07-11 8:53 ` [TUHS] Death by bug Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-11 9:04 ` arnold
2021-07-12 1:42 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2021-07-12 2:57 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-07-12 6:39 ` arnold
2021-07-12 9:56 ` Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-11 16:10 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-07-12 10:37 ` Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-06 13:40 ` [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view John Cowan
2021-07-06 14:12 ` Chet Ramey
2021-07-07 0:53 ` Nevin Liber
2021-07-07 13:08 ` Chet Ramey
2021-07-07 15:15 ` Richard Salz
2021-07-03 0:09 ` Andrew Warkentin
2021-07-03 15:49 ` Andy Kosela
2021-07-04 23:24 ` [TUHS] Is C obsolete? (was Re: [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view) Derek Fawcus
2021-07-04 23:50 ` Nemo Nusquam
2021-07-05 0:15 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-05 0:21 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 2:36 ` John Cowan
2021-07-05 2:59 ` Richard Salz
2021-07-05 3:47 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 4:02 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-05 13:45 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-05 20:15 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-05 21:05 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 21:29 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 22:22 ` Brantley Coile
2021-07-06 4:35 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-06 4:44 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-06 5:58 ` Rico Pajarola
2021-07-06 13:05 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 12:11 ` Thomas Paulsen
2021-07-05 4:08 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-05 4:23 ` George Michaelson
2021-07-05 14:43 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 15:17 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-05 15:36 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-05 15:53 ` Mike Markowski
2021-07-05 16:39 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-05 19:02 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-02 22:27 ` [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view Chet Ramey
2021-07-02 23:09 ` Steve Nickolas
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