* [9fans] life's too short @ 2003-06-20 21:11 Russ Cox 2003-06-23 7:26 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2003-06-20 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Public service announcement: g% pull mail/lib/pipeto.lib g% cat >$mail/pipeto <<EOF #!/bin/rc # standard library . /mail/lib/pipeto.lib $* if(~ `{cat $D/from | tr A-Z a-z} ravage@*ssz.com) exit 0 spool exit 0 EOF g% chmod 775 $mail/pipeto g% echo test | mail $user g% ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] life's too short 2003-06-20 21:11 [9fans] life's too short Russ Cox @ 2003-06-23 7:26 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros 2003-06-24 20:47 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-10-05 15:21 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:57 ` [9fans] Q about screenshots Jim Choate 2 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Fco.J.Ballesteros @ 2003-06-23 7:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 62 bytes --] Thanks a lot. I'm pulling and looking forward to install it. [-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1585 bytes --] From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] life's too short Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:11:04 -0400 Message-ID: <21a55d642f78f53fb753f9a156a18846@plan9.bell-labs.com> Public service announcement: g% pull mail/lib/pipeto.lib g% cat >$mail/pipeto <<EOF #!/bin/rc # standard library . /mail/lib/pipeto.lib $* if(~ `{cat $D/from | tr A-Z a-z} ravage@*ssz.com) exit 0 spool exit 0 EOF g% chmod 775 $mail/pipeto g% echo test | mail $user g% ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] life's too short 2003-06-23 7:26 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros @ 2003-06-24 20:47 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-06-24 20:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >Thanks a lot. I'm pulling and looking forward to install it. you bought the thong then ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-06-20 21:11 [9fans] life's too short Russ Cox 2003-06-23 7:26 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros @ 2003-10-05 15:21 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:24 ` matt ` (2 more replies) 2003-10-05 15:57 ` [9fans] Q about screenshots Jim Choate 2 siblings, 3 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Hi, Perhaps I've missed something obvious, an example in a man page perhaps; but... I'm trying to grab a snapshot of the initial boot screen from the bootfloppy. I am assuming that I can/could use this same process to grab screenshots during/after the install as well. I can of course simply take a digital image of the screen but that seems rather lo-tech. The reason is that I'm writing an article to be published and this is pretty much the final stage. Thanks. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:21 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:24 ` matt 2003-10-05 15:33 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:33 ` boyd 2003-10-05 15:44 ` mirtchov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2003-10-05 15:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:24 ` matt @ 2003-10-05 15:33 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:33 ` matt ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 Cool, I knew I could do that but is this a raw dump or a jpg or what? If it's not a standard format what utility converts it? I don't see any examples of how to process the actual data. What's the standard graphics viewer for P9? For that matter what's the best tool to play .wav and .mp3 files? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:33 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:33 ` matt 2003-10-05 15:38 ` Jim Choate ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2003-10-05 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans man file ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:33 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:33 ` matt @ 2003-10-05 15:38 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 10:09 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros 2003-10-05 15:42 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:55 ` Jim Choate 3 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 Try that under drawterm and you get a screen full of 1's and 0's. Very ugly. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:38 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-06 10:09 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros 2003-10-06 12:03 ` Kenji Arisawa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Fco.J.Ballesteros @ 2003-10-06 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >> > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 > > Try that under drawterm and you get a screen full of 1's and 0's. Very > ugly. That's why I love computer science, it's all 1s and 0s. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-06 10:09 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros @ 2003-10-06 12:03 ` Kenji Arisawa 2003-10-06 13:57 ` mirtchov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Kenji Arisawa @ 2003-10-06 12:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? Kenji Arisawa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-06 12:03 ` Kenji Arisawa @ 2003-10-06 13:57 ` mirtchov 2003-10-06 22:33 ` Kenji Arisawa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: mirtchov @ 2003-10-06 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? > > Kenji Arisawa no... the mouse cursor is drawn by hardware so it's separate from display->image... it isn't impossible to fake it, though -- just grab the cursor location from /dev/mouse and draw() a plan9 cursor mask (static for the most part) at this point andrey ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-06 13:57 ` mirtchov @ 2003-10-06 22:33 ` Kenji Arisawa 2003-10-07 11:01 ` paurea 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Kenji Arisawa @ 2003-10-06 22:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > >> By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? >> >> Kenji Arisawa > > no... the mouse cursor is drawn by hardware so it's separate from > display->image... it isn't impossible to fake it, though -- just grab > the cursor location from /dev/mouse and draw() a plan9 cursor mask > (static for the most part) at this point > > > andrey Thank you. I will try. Kenji Arisawa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-06 22:33 ` Kenji Arisawa @ 2003-10-07 11:01 ` paurea 2003-10-07 11:42 ` Kenji Arisawa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: paurea @ 2003-10-07 11:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >> >>> By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? >>> >>> Kenji Arisawa Yup. with vmware :-). Gorka ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-07 11:01 ` paurea @ 2003-10-07 11:42 ` Kenji Arisawa 2003-10-10 20:01 ` jmk 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Kenji Arisawa @ 2003-10-07 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >>> >>>> By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? >>>> >>>> Kenji Arisawa > > Yup. with vmware :-). > Gorka Yes, such an environment is really useful in writing manual. We can get snapshots of installation process that are impossible on native OS. I am using Virtual PC for this purpose. I really want Plan 9 can work with network on Virtual PC. Kenji Arisawa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-07 11:42 ` Kenji Arisawa @ 2003-10-10 20:01 ` jmk 2003-10-10 20:41 ` arisawa 2003-10-11 0:10 ` a 0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: jmk @ 2003-10-10 20:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Tue Oct 7 07:44:52 EDT 2003, arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote: > >>> > >>>> By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? > >>>> > >>>> Kenji Arisawa > > > > Yup. with vmware :-). > > Gorka > > Yes, such an environment is really useful in writing manual. > We can get snapshots of installation process that are impossible > on native OS. > I am using Virtual PC for this purpose. > I really want Plan 9 can work with network on Virtual PC. > > Kenji Arisawa When I read that I thought "Oh no, here's the Virtual PC question again", so I had a go at making it work. I downloaded the trial version from Microsoft (yes, they now own the Windows version, not Connectix), it's version 5.2. The ethernet and host chipset emulated have changed to ones Plan 9 has drivers for, as it does for the video adapter. I had to make some small changes to the PCI code (I thought I'd fixed it before, but apparently not); there are updated /sys/src/9/pc/pci.c and /sys/src/boot/pc/pci.c on sources. After that it works fine. The video is restricted on Plan 9 to be only 8-bits deep and doesn't know about the extra 4MB the framebuffer has, but that's just because we never did the code in aux/vga for the Trio64 chip at any higher depths. It's left as an exercise for the user. If you have any problems and you get back to me before the trial version times out I will try to help. --jim P.S. I'm writing this in an virtual PC. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-10 20:01 ` jmk @ 2003-10-10 20:41 ` arisawa 2003-10-11 0:10 ` a 1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: arisawa @ 2003-10-10 20:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > When I read that I thought "Oh no, here's the Virtual PC question > again", so I had a go at making it work. I downloaded the trial version > .... Jim, I really thank you! Kenji Arisawa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-10 20:01 ` jmk 2003-10-10 20:41 ` arisawa @ 2003-10-11 0:10 ` a 2003-10-11 1:36 ` jmk 1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: a @ 2003-10-11 0:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans this is very exciting, however it seems the boot floppy generated by the web page does not pick up the new drivers? or rather, i'm not able to see my ethernet device (via ls #l). i'm running the Mac OS X version, 6.1 (which, sadly, MS also owns). Win2K tells me it's got a Intel 21041 Based PCI Ethernet Adaptor. notably, the boot floppy also fails to start rio, despite the fact that i got the needed entry for /lib/vgadb off 9fans quite some time ago. am i just SOL on the Mac version? well, VN's got a Inferno 4e edition for Mac i can play with... :-) ア ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-11 0:10 ` a @ 2003-10-11 1:36 ` jmk 2003-10-11 22:02 ` arisawa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: jmk @ 2003-10-11 1:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri Oct 10 20:23:53 EDT 2003, a@9srv.net wrote: > this is very exciting, however it seems the boot floppy generated by > the web page does not pick up the new drivers? or rather, i'm not > able to see my ethernet device (via ls #l). i'm running the Mac OS X > version, 6.1 (which, sadly, MS also owns). Win2K tells me it's got a > Intel 21041 Based PCI Ethernet Adaptor. notably, the boot floppy > also fails to start rio, despite the fact that i got the needed > entry for /lib/vgadb off 9fans quite some time ago. am i just SOL > on the Mac version? > > well, VN's got a Inferno 4e edition for Mac i can play with... :-) > ア I only put up the source fixes to the PCI routines on sources, nothing was built. If it says 21041 then it sounds like that is still using the old 'hardware' which was replaced in the Windows 5.2 version with a 21140. You can probably find the correct list of emulated hardware in the tech. ref. document or by searching on the web. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-11 1:36 ` jmk @ 2003-10-11 22:02 ` arisawa 2003-10-11 22:17 ` jmk 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: arisawa @ 2003-10-11 22:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > If it says 21041 then it sounds like that is still using the old > 'hardware' which was replaced in the Windows 5.2 version with a 21140. > You can probably find the correct list of emulated hardware in > the tech. ref. document or by searching on the web. > Thanks Jim, but my situation is same as a@9srv.net. It seems 'ethernet controller' of Latest version 6.1 of VirtualPC for MacOSX is Intel 21041. I really appreciate your effort, Jim... Kenji Arisawa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-11 22:02 ` arisawa @ 2003-10-11 22:17 ` jmk 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: jmk @ 2003-10-11 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sat Oct 11 18:04:52 EDT 2003, arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote: > > If it says 21041 then it sounds like that is still using the old > > 'hardware' which was replaced in the Windows 5.2 version with a 21140. > > You can probably find the correct list of emulated hardware in > > the tech. ref. document or by searching on the web. > > > Thanks Jim, but my situation is same as a@9srv.net. > It seems 'ethernet controller' of Latest version 6.1 of VirtualPC for > MacOSX > is Intel 21041. > > I really appreciate your effort, Jim... > > Kenji Arisawa Then someone will have to write a driver for the 21041. I don't have a datasheet for that part and I have no 'hardware' to test on. --jim ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:33 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:33 ` matt 2003-10-05 15:38 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:42 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:46 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:55 ` Jim Choate 3 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans And while we're talking about how the display works, when there is an error condition you get those little black blocks with text in them, how do you refresh after it screws your display up? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:42 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:46 ` Jim Choate 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans "man file" Doesn't answer the question. If this is the most help you can provide, stop please. Been there , done that. Not a single example just a bunch of gibberish about file formats. No examples, nothing. I just love the bug section... -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > And while we're talking about how the display works, when there is an > error condition you get those little black blocks with text in them, how > do you refresh after it screws your display up? > > -- -- > > God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we > can't prove it. > Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu > > ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com > www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:33 ` Jim Choate ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2003-10-05 15:42 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:55 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:03 ` matt 2003-10-05 17:08 ` Dan Cross 3 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 It's actually... cp /dev/screen /tmp/grab01 Just another perfect example why this group is inbred. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:55 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 16:03 ` matt 2003-10-05 16:03 ` David Presotto 2003-10-05 16:09 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 17:08 ` Dan Cross 1 sibling, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2003-10-05 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans please die ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 16:03 ` matt @ 2003-10-05 16:03 ` David Presotto 2003-10-05 16:06 ` Hugo Santos 2003-10-05 16:09 ` Jim Choate 1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: David Presotto @ 2003-10-05 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9 bytes --] You first [-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1757 bytes --] From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:03:22 +0100 Message-ID: <d7ccef47e426bdd0a4b0bafa60e6ce1a@juice.thebigchoice.com> please die ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 16:03 ` David Presotto @ 2003-10-05 16:06 ` Hugo Santos 2003-10-05 16:16 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 17:59 ` Dan Cross 0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Hugo Santos @ 2003-10-05 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans This looks like the openbsd lists :-) Hugo On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 05:03 PM, David Presotto wrote: > You first > From: matt@proweb.co.uk > Date: Sun Oct 5, 2003 5:03:22 PM Europe/Lisbon > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots > Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > > please die > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 16:06 ` Hugo Santos @ 2003-10-05 16:16 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:02 ` Ralph Corderoy 2003-10-05 17:59 ` Dan Cross 1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Hugo Santos wrote: > This looks like the openbsd lists :-) It looks like every social group I've ever participated in ;) I suspect it's healthy when there is disagreement, and a sign of trouble when there isn't. Conflict motivates people to do things, though they sometimes get confused as to the exact line for what is acceptable. It's really no big deal, so long as P9 keeps growing! -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 16:16 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-06 9:02 ` Ralph Corderoy 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Ralph Corderoy @ 2003-10-06 9:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Hi Jim, > > This looks like the openbsd lists :-) > > It looks like every social group I've ever participated in ;) Ever get bored by them all being the same? > I suspect it's healthy when there is disagreement, and a sign of > trouble when there isn't. Yes, when the disagreement is about technically interesting things, or even about the colours chosen for the windows and why. And when the disagreement is expressed politely with justification. But not the gobby name-calling that c.o.plan9 often descends into these days. > It's really no big deal, so long as P9 keeps growing! Plan 9 can keep growing without c.o.plan9 being like all the other social groups you've participiated in. ;-) Cheers, Ralph. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 16:06 ` Hugo Santos 2003-10-05 16:16 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 17:59 ` Dan Cross 1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Hugo Santos <hugo_santos@users.sourceforge.net> writes: > > This looks like the openbsd lists :-) No there isn't enough megalomania for it to be an OpenBSD list. Oh, wait, Choate provides all that. Nevermind; I stand corrected. - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 16:03 ` matt 2003-10-05 16:03 ` David Presotto @ 2003-10-05 16:09 ` Jim Choate 1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > please die Nope. Suffer. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:55 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:03 ` matt @ 2003-10-05 17:08 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 17:17 ` Jim Choate 1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> writes: > > > > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > > > > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 > > It's actually... > > cp /dev/screen /tmp/grab01 Umm, don't those do roughly the same thing? Sure, cp has a few additional bells and whistles, but the loops to actually copy the data are nearly identical. > Just another perfect example why this group is inbred. I guess you do't `speak C', as they say. - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 17:08 ` Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 17:17 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 18:09 ` Dan Cross 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 17:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Umm, don't those do roughly the same thing? Try it. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 17:17 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 18:09 ` Dan Cross 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 18:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> writes: > Try it. I did. Worked for me. - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:21 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:24 ` matt @ 2003-10-05 15:33 ` boyd 2003-10-05 15:44 ` mirtchov 2 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: boyd @ 2003-10-05 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Perhaps I've missed something obvious, an example in a man page perhaps; but... land a goshen ... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:21 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:24 ` matt 2003-10-05 15:33 ` boyd @ 2003-10-05 15:44 ` mirtchov 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate 2 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: mirtchov @ 2003-10-05 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > I'm trying to grab a snapshot of the initial boot screen from the if that's the rio that comes up after the installation (glenda+acme and docs) then do: togif < /dev/screen > $home/scr.gif if you want to take a snapshot of the booting screen beforehand (with 'root is from:' prompts and whatnot) you're better off using a camera, or copy/pasting the text as it comes off the serial console :) andrey ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:44 ` mirtchov @ 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:15 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate ` (5 more replies) 0 siblings, 6 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Hi Andrey, On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > > I'm trying to grab a snapshot of the initial boot screen from the > > if that's the rio that comes up after the installation (glenda+acme > and docs) then do: > > togif < /dev/screen > $home/scr.gif > > if you want to take a snapshot of the booting screen beforehand (with > 'root is from:' prompts and whatnot) you're better off using a camera, > or copy/pasting the text as it comes off the serial console :) Thank you very much for the clear and direct answer. I intend to include this in future H18 How To's. Can I have your permission to credit you for this? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 16:15 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 18:01 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 16:58 ` [9fans] And what about secure computing? Jim Choate ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans It has been proposed to only import those grids one likes. Unfortunatley this won't work unless you're intending to demand that others limit their expansion choices to your choices. I suspect most people won't 'like' you very much on that point. Let's assume that we have three grids named A, B, & C. A doesn't 'like' C, but B does. A 'likes' B. A <-> B <-> C is equivalent through transivity to: A <-> C Back to the drawing board on that one.... -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 16:15 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 18:01 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 18:42 ` Jim Choate 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> writes: > It has been proposed to only import those grids one likes. Unfortunatley > this won't work unless you're intending to demand that others limit their > expansion choices to your choices. I suspect most people won't 'like' you > very much on that point. > > Let's assume that we have three grids named A, B, & C. > > A doesn't 'like' C, but B does. A 'likes' B. > > A <-> B <-> C > > is equivalent through transivity to: > > A <-> C > > Back to the drawing board on that one.... Umm, who ever said import was transitive? - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 18:01 ` Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 18:42 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 19:25 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 21:44 ` Charles Forsyth 0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 18:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: hangar18-general On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Umm, who ever said import was transitive? It's the export of the import, and Plan 9 has transivity built into it. Just like NFS does. The transivity isn't in the control of the person doing the export to the next person doing the export. That makes it transitive. Once the person can get the bits they can send them out without the source even being aware (eg proxy). Further, without this sort of transivity the utility of grid computing (especially in a public sharing context) is pretty much nil. Among other things it causes way too much network traffic. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 18:42 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 19:25 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 19:37 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:47 ` boyd 2003-10-05 21:44 ` Charles Forsyth 1 sibling, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: hangar18-general Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> writes: > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > Umm, who ever said import was transitive? > > It's the export of the import, and Plan 9 has transivity built into it. > Just like NFS does. The transivity isn't in the control of the person > doing the export to the next person doing the export. That makes it > transitive. Once the person can get the bits they can send them out > without the source even being aware (eg proxy). Uhh. I import into a namespace. I can export another namespace that doesn't include whatever I imported. So import doesn't have to be `transitive,' as I said. Your analogy with NFS doesn't make sense, because in Unix-land (where I assume you're talking about), you have a single, global namespace. Not so in Plan 9. > Further, without this sort of transivity the utility of grid computing > (especially in a public sharing context) is pretty much nil. Among other > things it causes way too much network traffic. Uh, okay. Note to the world: I've finally started filtering out Choate. Hooray! I get to join the rest of the masses in ignoring his inanities! - Dan C. (Actually, I'm filtering him into another folder, so that I have something to laugh at every now and again when I'm feeling bored.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 19:25 ` Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 19:37 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:47 ` boyd 1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: hangar18-general On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Uhh. I import into a namespace. I can export another namespace that > doesn't include whatever I imported. So import doesn't have to be > `transitive,' as I said. Dan, you're creating a strawman. Changing the point of discussion and then claiming it's the same. Your assertion as to what I said is simply wrong. Further, what you do doesn't map to everyone else's needs. So sad. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 19:25 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 19:37 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-06 9:47 ` boyd 1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: boyd @ 2003-10-06 9:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Note to the world: I've finally started filtering out Choate. Hooray! I get to join the rest of the masses in ignoring his inanities! yeah, spamoff has a 'trash' function now. i could just add it in or change one line and bounce 'em. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 18:42 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 19:25 ` Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 21:44 ` Charles Forsyth 2003-10-05 21:52 ` [9fans] From the writings of Mark V. Choatey Andrew Simmons 2003-10-05 22:03 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate 1 sibling, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2003-10-05 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >>Just like NFS does. The transivity isn't in the control of the person this touches an old nerve: NFS didn't (at least in Sun's implementation). indeed, it limited exports to a physical file system, so that every machine needed to know the mounting hierarchy of every other. scales up well, as you can well imagine! anyhow, to get transitivity, you need to work at it (patches possibly available on request, if i can find them in my archive) and even then it doesn't work completely (but it's much better than nothing), until you patch the clients... one annoying thing is that it never became part of the traditional Jumbo Patch. still, you're right: NFS could have done that, and perhaps the suenix re-implementations do. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] From the writings of Mark V. Choatey 2003-10-05 21:44 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2003-10-05 21:52 ` Andrew Simmons 2003-10-05 22:42 ` Scott Schwartz 2003-10-05 22:03 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate 1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Andrew Simmons @ 2003-10-05 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans 300M is a flaw in the first stone. The transivity isn't in the late 1800's and how that maps onto new technology. As to megalomania, I'd say your behaviour is more akin to thinking oneself to be based on principle and not more criminal but examples of both abound. My response, as with you butthead, is to find better ways, this means those who stick to the next reprobate. I don't start it but I'll damn well finish it if I cause damage in a theatre, even with speech. The point of the most snide and stupid comments I've ever heard from a commercial rep to a world where business now controls the very system that was the growth of socialism in the first place. When somebody abuses that then nail their scummy ass to the VN rep who made one of the goals of this country the pursuit of happiness. Don't address the issue, but the people who did the person accountable for their behavior yet doesn't recognize that other electrons acting in proxy for that person in that example who was without sind od? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] From the writings of Mark V. Choatey 2003-10-05 21:52 ` [9fans] From the writings of Mark V. Choatey Andrew Simmons @ 2003-10-05 22:42 ` Scott Schwartz 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Scott Schwartz @ 2003-10-05 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Ok, enough is enough. Let's please keep the flames out of 9fans. They're off topic, and just plain boring. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 21:44 ` Charles Forsyth 2003-10-05 21:52 ` [9fans] From the writings of Mark V. Choatey Andrew Simmons @ 2003-10-05 22:03 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 22:10 ` Charles Forsyth 1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > still, you're right: NFS could have done that, and perhaps the suenix > re-implementations do. NFS has been doing that for at least two yeas on Solaris, HP/UX, and AIX. Might want to review the man pages. When I used to work for Tivoli we had to make sure this was turned off because of some low level sys call conflicts with Tivoli during installs from NFS images. Wasn't a big deal since most sites didn't see it as very usefull. In a public namespace/filesystem context however the importance changes dramatically. If you don't allow transitivity in the mounts (and lazy-update is another must have in the real world) then the source servers get completely bogged down. Just imagine trying to export the Gutenburg Project by forcing everyone to go to the project itself. By using this technology a handfull of sites around the country could make the primary connections and then export those out to their immediate region. Then as users hit the second level server, only files that have never been hit before (or have changed content even one bit) need be re-propogated. This whole 'a few sites share to another set of few sites' is the heart of 'small world networks'. It allows the network to scale without traffic growing with it, provided the number of connections per node is not too small or too large. Sort of like Goldilocks ;) -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 22:03 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 22:10 ` Charles Forsyth 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2003-10-05 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >>NFS has been doing that for at least two yeas on Solaris, HP/UX, and AIX. >>Might want to review the man pages. When I used to work for Tivoli we had that would explain it. our solaris system `pazzo' is older than that. much had changed even then. i see that `exporting' is out, and `sharing' is in. quite. very touchy-feely. actually, that was one of the things about Sun's Joyless announcement that worried me a bit: something about him instilling something in the hearts --and souls-- [emphasis mine] of those working for Sun. what WAS going on there? even my friends who worked for Microsoft never spoke of anything like that. (it was always about shares or share options with them.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] And what about secure computing? 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:15 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 16:58 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 18:07 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 17:06 ` [9fans] The small world approach of H18 Jim Choate ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans One of the problems we've been looking at on H18 is how to handle security issues with regard to users programs and where they run. The current idea is that each process has a 'security' tag that sets some level of sensitivity with regard to public exposure. And then a 'trust' parameter for each machine or cluster of machines. So a site might have processes running at verious levels of 'security' and then assign them to clusters based on 'trust'. So internal accounting programs would run only on machines that had the highest trust level, whereas a webpage might be accessible to all and thus processes related to it might run in a public cluster of processors. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] And what about secure computing? 2003-10-05 16:58 ` [9fans] And what about secure computing? Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 18:07 ` Dan Cross 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> writes: > One of the problems we've been looking at on H18 is how to handle security > issues with regard to users programs and where they run. > > The current idea is that each process has a 'security' tag that sets some > level of sensitivity with regard to public exposure. And then a 'trust' > parameter for each machine or cluster of machines. > > So a site might have processes running at verious levels of 'security' and > then assign them to clusters based on 'trust'. So internal accounting > programs would run only on machines that had the highest trust level, > whereas a webpage might be accessible to all and thus processes related to > it might run in a public cluster of processors. Dude, have you actually implemented a SINGLE THING yet? All you do is posture and make bombastic claims, but this `hangar 18' thing has been around for what, over a year now, and hasn't produced one single thing of merit. I know this is going to come as a shock to you, so brace yourself: No one listens to you, because you're all talk. If you had produced something six months ago, maybe some people would have listened. But you didn't. So you've lost all credibility. Now would you please get lost? - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] The small world approach of H18 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:15 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:58 ` [9fans] And what about secure computing? Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 17:06 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:55 ` boyd 2003-10-05 17:11 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Dan Cross ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: hangar18-general, hell What we envision is a agent has control of a auth server and some amount of resources they use for their own use. Each node has only a handfull of connections (we're looking at ln(#_conn) currently). Each node decides for itself what it wants to do. Encrypting the various connections between a node and the other nodes it connects to is critical. It needs to be the default instead of clear-text, clear-text needs to be supported for those who just must know what is going on. This approach is called 'small world networks' (or you know it as the Kevin Bacon Game). This means that the two gateway machines for two clusters would have a single shared key. All traffic would be wrapped in that. The actual data in the packets so wrapped would have keys based not only on apps (perhaps) but also the users. This provides several layers of anonymity, and in addition brings the DMCA in against those who try to crack the shell. H18 has decided that it's A's problem to manage it's connections, and B's problem to manage their connections. And there's no reason C needs to know anything about any of the A-B dealings, even if C happens to be carrying said traffic. We intend to fully support anonymity. Each node is the king of its own little kingdom, the connection between two kingdoms is a compromise between those two kingdoms and doesn't (and shouldn't) be extended to any other node. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The small world approach of H18 2003-10-05 17:06 ` [9fans] The small world approach of H18 Jim Choate @ 2003-10-06 9:55 ` boyd 2003-10-06 18:02 ` D. Brownlee 0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread From: boyd @ 2003-10-06 9:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans where is my DSM IV? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The small world approach of H18 2003-10-06 9:55 ` boyd @ 2003-10-06 18:02 ` D. Brownlee 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: D. Brownlee @ 2003-10-06 18:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans at your doctor's office? ;-) boyd@sdgm.net wrote: >where is my DSM IV? > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2003-10-05 17:06 ` [9fans] The small world approach of H18 Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 17:11 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 17:28 ` [9fans] cat v cp Jim Choate 2003-10-06 13:23 ` [9fans] Update on cat v cp & /dev/screen Jim Choate 5 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> writes: > Thank you very much for the clear and direct answer. I intend to include > this in future H18 How To's. Can I have your permission to credit you for > this? I love this guy. From the 9fans archives: ---- Return-Path: <ravage@ssz.com> Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38428199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:47:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA21056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:01:51 -0600 Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:01:50 -0600 (CST) >From: Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <3AA8196B.43C119F4@mail.usask.ca> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010308180050.5925S-100000@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: <http://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/> I didn't 'insult' anyone. On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > are you sure you are insulting the right people? Have you considered suicide? ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Now he wants to credit him in a `paper' he's writing. - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] cat v cp 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2003-10-05 17:11 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Dan Cross @ 2003-10-05 17:28 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 13:23 ` [9fans] Update on cat v cp & /dev/screen Jim Choate 5 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans The problem with, cat /dev/screen > /tmp/screen01 went away after a reboot. At the same time, cp /dev/screen /tmp/screen02 worked just fine before the reboot. After a reboot they both behave the same. My box has been up about three weeks and I rebooted this morning as part of the testing of these. Hmmmm, something is getting out of sync over time. Once I'm done I'll do some long term testing and see if I can recreate reliably. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Update on cat v cp & /dev/screen 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2003-10-05 17:28 ` [9fans] cat v cp Jim Choate @ 2003-10-06 13:23 ` Jim Choate 5 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-06 13:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: hangar18-general I have recreated the problem by allowing a drawterm connection to stay open for just over half a day (I can't say exactly because I didn't note the start time of last reboot yesterday). Also, it appears that if you do the command from drawterm before you do it from a local cli the local cli will then fail on subsequent commands. I am using a basic image from June 18 that was last pulled about 3 weeks ago. The system went through a complete rebuild at that time. I see several potential paths of cause: - hardware - bad os build somehow unique to this combination - an actual bug in P9 - something about the combo of drawterm and SuSE 8.0 Once I've completed the curent phase of work I'm in I will be able to reload the box in toto and re-test. It will be interesting to see if the middle mouse button will work in drawterm on a reload as well with respect to this SuSE 8.0 load. In addition the plan is to update this machine to SuSE 8.2 in the next week or so. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Q about screenshots 2003-06-20 21:11 [9fans] life's too short Russ Cox 2003-06-23 7:26 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros 2003-10-05 15:21 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:57 ` Jim Choate 2 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans And just exactly what happens if the cp occurs while the screen is in the middle of an update. Does it grab the old frame, wait for the new frame to complete, or just give you a gibberish dump of the interim buffer contents which are almost certainly worthless? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid @ 2003-10-05 16:26 andrey mirtchovski 2003-10-05 16:40 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:14 ` boyd 0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-10-05 16:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans That transitive closure would work in the non-Plan 9 world. Luckily what we're designing is better: In the 9grid we envision, if somebody is from C they are still considered as a C client for any/all authentication purpouses even though they may be coming from B, or from [AD-Z] for that matter. So filtering C /lib/ndb/auth-style is still going to work, with or without trusting B. some of us have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it. andrey ps: there's a 9grid list where this could be continued. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 16:26 [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-10-05 16:40 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:14 ` boyd 1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-10-05 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > That transitive closure would work in the non-Plan 9 world. Luckily what > we're designing is better: > > In the 9grid we envision, if somebody is from C they are still considered > as a C client for any/all authentication purpouses even though they may > be coming from B, or from [AD-Z] for that matter. So filtering C > /lib/ndb/auth-style is still going to work, with or without trusting B. How would you know? Are you going to require that B authenticate all its exports through A? That's going to require a fully connected network between all nodes. Slow and tedious. Look into 'small networks'. So you're going to prevent anyone from acting as a proxy? Won't work, there are many sites that will require some degree of anonymity. > some of us have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it. What a snide and insulting response. Keep thinking. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid 2003-10-05 16:26 [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid andrey mirtchovski 2003-10-05 16:40 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-10-06 9:14 ` boyd 1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: boyd @ 2003-10-06 9:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans some of us have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it. i'm with you captain .... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid @ 2003-10-05 16:39 andrey mirtchovski 0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-10-05 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > What a snide and insulting response. Just like a school bully somebody has slapped in the face -- you jump on everybody in sight looking for revenge... > Keep thinking. I will, but I refuse to do your thinking for you hereafter. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 60+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-10-11 22:17 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 60+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2003-06-20 21:11 [9fans] life's too short Russ Cox 2003-06-23 7:26 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros 2003-06-24 20:47 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-10-05 15:21 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:24 ` matt 2003-10-05 15:33 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:33 ` matt 2003-10-05 15:38 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 10:09 ` Fco.J.Ballesteros 2003-10-06 12:03 ` Kenji Arisawa 2003-10-06 13:57 ` mirtchov 2003-10-06 22:33 ` Kenji Arisawa 2003-10-07 11:01 ` paurea 2003-10-07 11:42 ` Kenji Arisawa 2003-10-10 20:01 ` jmk 2003-10-10 20:41 ` arisawa 2003-10-11 0:10 ` a 2003-10-11 1:36 ` jmk 2003-10-11 22:02 ` arisawa 2003-10-11 22:17 ` jmk 2003-10-05 15:42 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:46 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:55 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:03 ` matt 2003-10-05 16:03 ` David Presotto 2003-10-05 16:06 ` Hugo Santos 2003-10-05 16:16 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:02 ` Ralph Corderoy 2003-10-05 17:59 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 16:09 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 17:08 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 17:17 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 18:09 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 15:33 ` boyd 2003-10-05 15:44 ` mirtchov 2003-10-05 15:59 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:15 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate 2003-10-05 18:01 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 18:42 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-05 19:25 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 19:37 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:47 ` boyd 2003-10-05 21:44 ` Charles Forsyth 2003-10-05 21:52 ` [9fans] From the writings of Mark V. Choatey Andrew Simmons 2003-10-05 22:42 ` Scott Schwartz 2003-10-05 22:03 ` [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Jim Choate 2003-10-05 22:10 ` Charles Forsyth 2003-10-05 16:58 ` [9fans] And what about secure computing? Jim Choate 2003-10-05 18:07 ` Dan Cross 2003-10-05 17:06 ` [9fans] The small world approach of H18 Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:55 ` boyd 2003-10-06 18:02 ` D. Brownlee 2003-10-05 17:11 ` [9fans] Q: About screenshots Dan Cross 2003-10-05 17:28 ` [9fans] cat v cp Jim Choate 2003-10-06 13:23 ` [9fans] Update on cat v cp & /dev/screen Jim Choate 2003-10-05 15:57 ` [9fans] Q about screenshots Jim Choate 2003-10-05 16:26 [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid andrey mirtchovski 2003-10-05 16:40 ` Jim Choate 2003-10-06 9:14 ` boyd 2003-10-05 16:39 andrey mirtchovski
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