[9fans] user interface questions

[9fans] user interface questions

[LM]

I noticed TinyGL mentioned on the Plan 9 TODO list at
https://plan9.io/wiki/plan9/TODO/index.html  Was wondering what kind
of development was in the works for this before it stalled.  I'm
currently doing some work on a TinyGL fork myself and was wondering if
there was an interest in sharing resources.

Also wondering what user interfaces are typically used with Plan 9
programs (programs not designed for the command line).  Is there
anything on the roadmap for user interface development?  I've looked
at several GUI and TUI libraries on a variety of operating systems
(over a long period of time) and I've yet to find one I really like.
I do like working with command line programs, but some programs just
don't lend themselves to that format.  Was wondering what design ideas
Plan 9 developers might have for user interface development.

Thanks.

Re: [9fans] user interface questions

[Ethan Gardener]

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019, at 7:57 PM, LM wrote:
> 
> Also wondering what user interfaces are typically used with Plan 9
> programs (programs not designed for the command line).  Is there
> anything on the roadmap for user interface development?  I've looked
> at several GUI and TUI libraries on a variety of operating systems
> (over a long period of time) and I've yet to find one I really like.
> I do like working with command line programs, but some programs just
> don't lend themselves to that format.  Was wondering what design ideas
> Plan 9 developers might have for user interface development.
> 

I'm not up to writing much at the moment, (and I think I might have not received some messages in this thread,) but just to say the filesystem interfaces of Plan 9 programs make a fascinating extension to their UI and functionality.  I once cropped an image interactively using page, rio, topng of course, and crop -i 4 to trim off rio's border.  Smoothing off the rough edges of that process and making it a little more powerful would be interesting.  The plumber is a powerful tool too, as are namespaces and the ability to nest rios.  

What I don't like is the use of spaces to separate tokens in all the filesystem interfaces.  While it means you can hypothetically type into them with con, or just use echo or any other shell utilities to control them, in some circumstances quoting gets hairy.  Also, splitting tasks between multiple small languages gets annoying because the only means of communication between them is text, which means you have to write translation between different syntaxes as well as the task you want.  (Personally, I also have problems with the C source I'd need to work with to extend and improve these interfaces.)  I've started on my own system with one language embracing all the DSLs, and suitably structured data -- a-lists and tagged tables -- to ease the job of interfacing them, but it's a long job and not top priority in my life right now.  Plan 9 shell and environment support lists, but they're 1-dimensional, null-separated, and I don't think any of the filesystem interfaces even try to support them.  You can't echo them with the nulls anyway.

Re: [9fans] user interface questions

[Lucio De Re]

It looks like exp/shiny (a tentative, multi-platform graphics API
native in the Go language) is getting some dusting off right at this
moment.

I had a look at the most recent copy I have in hand of Dave
MacFarlane's devdraw shiny driver, but the immediate absence I picked
up was a missing interface method (texture filling?).

I couldn't find a description of the missing method, only
implementations in other drivers and at that level my comprehension is
minimal, so unless someone points me at some documentation I can
understand, I'll have to wait for someone else to fill that gap.

Which is a crying shame: exp/shiny shows such promise...

Lucio.

On 4/27/19, Jens Staal <staal1978@gmail.com> wrote:
> Den lör 27 apr. 2019 08:21Lucio De Re <lucio.dere@gmail.com> skrev:
>
>> On 4/26/19, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > It's here now:  https://bellard.org/TinyGL/
>> >
>> > khm
>> >
>> Let me add this correction to that document, this is where my
>> curiosity found VReng:
>>
>> http://www.vreng.enst.fr/
>>
>> Thank you, Kurt.
>>
>> Lucio.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> If I remember correctly, there is an SDL port on Plan9, and there is a
>> tinygl-on-sdl so perhaps it is already possible.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lucio De Re
>> 2 Piet Retief St
>> Kestell (Eastern Free State)
>> 9860 South Africa
>>
>> Ph.: +27 58 653 1433
>> Cell: +27 83 251 5824
>> FAX: +27 58 653 1435
>>
>>
>


-- 
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South Africa

Ph.: +27 58 653 1433
Cell: +27 83 251 5824
FAX: +27 58 653 1435

Re: [9fans] user interface questions

[LM]

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 8:01 AM <9fans-request@9fans.net> wrote:
> There is some snapshots of the broken link
> (http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/TinyGL/) in archive.org, but the link
> to the source is missing. For example:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20080506105341/http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/TinyGL

Thanks.  I do already have the original source code for TinyGL, plus
source code to over a dozen forks.  I'm working on incorporating the
best of the various forks into one fork.  Was there anything already
done or that still needs to be done to get this working specifically
with Plan 9?  I believe I saw some mention of SDL ported to Plan 9 (
https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/contrib_index_test/index.html ).  If that's
working, then the forks of TinyGL that use SDL as a backend should
work fine with it as is.  Some forks also allow for alternative
backends like vesa framebuffer or nano-x/microwindows (which works on
a variety of operating systems from DOS and embedded systems to mobile
devices to Linux and Windows).

Sincerely,
Laura

Re: [9fans] user interface questions

[Jens Staal]

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Den lör 27 apr. 2019 08:21Lucio De Re <lucio.dere@gmail.com> skrev:

> On 4/26/19, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
> >
> > It's here now:  https://bellard.org/TinyGL/
> >
> > khm
> >
> Let me add this correction to that document, this is where my
> curiosity found VReng:
>
> http://www.vreng.enst.fr/
>
> Thank you, Kurt.
>
> Lucio.
> >
>
>
>
> If I remember correctly, there is an SDL port on Plan9, and there is a
> tinygl-on-sdl so perhaps it is already possible.
>
>
> --
> Lucio De Re
> 2 Piet Retief St
> Kestell (Eastern Free State)
> 9860 South Africa
>
> Ph.: +27 58 653 1433
> Cell: +27 83 251 5824
> FAX: +27 58 653 1435
>
>

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Re: [9fans] user interface questions

[Lucio De Re]

On 4/26/19, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>
> It's here now:  https://bellard.org/TinyGL/
>
> khm
>
Let me add this correction to that document, this is where my
curiosity found VReng:

http://www.vreng.enst.fr/

Thank you, Kurt.

Lucio.
>


--
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South Africa

Ph.: +27 58 653 1433
Cell: +27 83 251 5824
FAX: +27 58 653 1435

Re: [9fans] user interface questions

[Kurt H Maier]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 11:37:46PM +0300, Antonio Barrones wrote:
> There is some snapshots of the broken link
> (http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/TinyGL/) in archive.org, but the link
> to the source is missing. For example:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20080506105341/http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/TinyGL
>
> Antonio
>

It's here now:  https://bellard.org/TinyGL/

khm

Re: [9fans] user interface questions

[Antonio Barrones]

There is some snapshots of the broken link
(http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/TinyGL/) in archive.org, but the link
to the source is missing. For example:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080506105341/http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/TinyGL

Antonio