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* [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
@ 2023-01-19  7:09 fig
  2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela
  2023-01-19 11:29 ` Edward Partenie
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: fig @ 2023-01-19  7:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme. they’re
both the powerful synthesis of simple ideas. i don’t see any mention of it
as it compares to 9, but they don’t seem incompatible. personally i think
they compliment each other in nice ways.

i don’t have any interest in emacs, i don’t even know what it is. nor
clojure or any of that. i’m talking about lisp being able to manipulate the
structure of the program with tools that are built into the language.
learned about it today.

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19  7:09 [9fans] plan 9 and lisp fig
@ 2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela
  2023-01-19 15:28   ` ori
  2023-01-19 15:57   ` mkf9
  2023-01-19 11:29 ` Edward Partenie
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-19 11:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme.

Cat-v.org has given a nod to Scheme.

Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.

A useful Scheme interpreter can be written in about 10k lines of clear C 
code.

> they’re both the powerful synthesis of simple ideas. i don’t see any 
> mention of it as it compares to 9, but they don’t seem incompatible. 
> personally i think they compliment each other in nice ways.

Plan 9 uses files as the organizing metaphor. Lisp uses objects. 
(Lispers don't care too much about organizing objects into class 
hierarchies; we care about them in the Smalltalk sense, "something you 
can call to do a job". Every function is an object in Lisp.)

https://github.com/mntmn/interim is a hobby OS that tries to combine the 
two. I haven't looked at it in detail but the idea may be "too much of a 
good thing": the two metaphors cover some of the same ground, so there 
is redundancy between them. The Lisp instinct is to represent system 
services as objects, not files.

> i don’t have any interest in emacs, i don’t even know what it is. nor 
> clojure or any of that.

Emacs = A very imperfect Lisp machine emulator written in C. The code 
written for Emacs mostly deals with text editing, but the Lisp system is 
actually broad enough for general-purpose programming.

Clojure = Java. That may be all 9fans want to know :-)

> i’m talking about lisp being able to manipulate the structure of the 
> program with tools that are built into the language.
Lisp tends to focus on macros and other S-expression transformations, 
i.e. metaprogramming at as a batch job (at compile time, etc.)

Smalltalk focuses on reflection, i.e. metaprogramming at run time.

Same idea, but Smalltalk is much more dynamic. Most Lisp systems can do 
a lot of runtime reflection but it's not customary to reach for it as 
the first tool of choice. This is more of a cultural matter than a 
technical issue, though culture determines which aspects of the 
implementations are the most polished and comprehensive.

Scheme tends to be less dynamic than Lisp generally. This is also a 
matter of culture, not an intrinsic technical issue. Schemers constantly 
talk about efficiency.

Almost all Lisp dialects use dynamic typing. Almost all Lisp 
implementations (of any dialect) support interactive development, and 
this is the normal way to write Lisp.

Other languages known for metaprogramming: Forth, Rebol.


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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19  7:09 [9fans] plan 9 and lisp fig
  2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela
@ 2023-01-19 11:29 ` Edward Partenie
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Edward Partenie @ 2023-01-19 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1359 bytes --]

I love it for the same reasons. Small set of small but powerful and
far-reaching abstractions, which all compose well together. That’s good
design!

On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 at 9:09 AM fig <type9freak@gmail.com> wrote:

> i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme. they’re
> both the powerful synthesis of simple ideas. i don’t see any mention of it
> as it compares to 9, but they don’t seem incompatible. personally i think
> they compliment each other in nice ways.
>
> i don’t have any interest in emacs, i don’t even know what it is. nor
> clojure or any of that. i’m talking about lisp being able to manipulate the
> structure of the program with tools that are built into the language.
> learned about it today.
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-Meaf9220ebe5882a4d7497280>
>

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela
@ 2023-01-19 15:28   ` ori
  2023-01-19 18:26     ` Csepp
  2023-01-19 15:57   ` mkf9
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2023-01-19 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Lassi Kortela <lassi@lassi.io>:
> > i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme.
> 
> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
> 

And more recently, Janet:

https://git.sr.ht/~pixelherodev/janet


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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 15:57   ` mkf9
@ 2023-01-19 15:47     ` Bakul Shah
  2023-01-19 16:01       ` Dan Cross
  2023-01-19 17:07       ` Skip Tavakkolian
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-19 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 <mkf9@riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Lassi Kortela wrote:
>> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
> and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9,
> https://github.com/bakul/s9fes.

Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original
port with some help from me. He didn't want to
maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am
maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but
AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9.

Speaking of little languages....
Nils also ported his klong array programming language
to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose
than k (roughly k3 from kx.com)

Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports
a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And
there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it
compiles & runs on 9front:

% git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i
% git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg
% cd i
% go build '-buildvcs=false'
% ./k
ktye/k
!10
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
+\!10
0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45
d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6)
d
`a|1 2
`b|3 4
`c|5 6
+d
a b c
-----
1 3 5
2 4 6
\\

There is of course Rob Pike's ivy.

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela
  2023-01-19 15:28   ` ori
@ 2023-01-19 15:57   ` mkf9
  2023-01-19 15:47     ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: mkf9 @ 2023-01-19 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Lassi Kortela wrote:
> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9,
https://github.com/bakul/s9fes.

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 15:47     ` Bakul Shah
@ 2023-01-19 16:01       ` Dan Cross
  2023-01-19 16:13         ` Bakul Shah
  2023-01-19 17:07       ` Skip Tavakkolian
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2023-01-19 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 10:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>[snip]
> Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original
> port with some help from me. He didn't want to
> maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am
> maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but
> AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9.

I thought that Ozan Yigit had done a small scheme that ran on plan9 at
one point, but I can't find a pointer to it on his page at York at the
moment. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I definitely remember running a
scheme repl under rio, which was actually quite pleasant. Someone
(Russ?) had also ported mosml, which is also interesting to play
around with.

        - Dan C.

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 16:01       ` Dan Cross
@ 2023-01-19 16:13         ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-19 16:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans



> On Jan 19, 2023, at 8:01 AM, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 10:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>> [snip]
>> Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original
>> port with some help from me. He didn't want to
>> maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am
>> maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but
>> AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9.
> 
> I thought that Ozan Yigit had done a small scheme that ran on plan9 at
> one point, but I can't find a pointer to it on his page at York at the
> moment. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I definitely remember running a
> scheme repl under rio, which was actually quite pleasant. Someone
> (Russ?) had also ported mosml, which is also interesting to play
> around with.

Ozan did Portable Scheme Interpreter (psi). I had it running on
some BSD in mid '90s.

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 15:47     ` Bakul Shah
  2023-01-19 16:01       ` Dan Cross
@ 2023-01-19 17:07       ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2023-01-20 19:45         ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2023-01-19 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Regarding Ivy, rsc has some fantastic example code in the form of
solutions to the Advent of Code 2021 puzzles:
https://www.youtube.com/@rscgolang/videos

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 7:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>
> On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 <mkf9@riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> > Lassi Kortela wrote:
> >> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
> > and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9,
> > https://github.com/bakul/s9fes.
>
> Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original
> port with some help from me. He didn't want to
> maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am
> maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but
> AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9.
>
> Speaking of little languages....
> Nils also ported his klong array programming language
> to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose
> than k (roughly k3 from kx.com)
>
> Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports
> a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And
> there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it
> compiles & runs on 9front:
>
> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i
> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg
> % cd i
> % go build '-buildvcs=false'
> % ./k
> ktye/k
> !10
> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
> +\!10
> 0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45
> d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6)
> d
> `a|1 2
> `b|3 4
> `c|5 6
> +d
> a b c
> -----
> 1 3 5
> 2 4 6
> \\
> 
> There is of course Rob Pike's ivy.

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 15:28   ` ori
@ 2023-01-19 18:26     ` Csepp
  2023-01-19 18:33       ` Jacob Moody
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Csepp @ 2023-01-19 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans; +Cc: ori


ori@eigenstate.org writes:

> Quoth Lassi Kortela <lassi@lassi.io>:
>> > i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme.
>> 
>> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
>> 
> 
> And more recently, Janet:
> 
> https://git.sr.ht/~pixelherodev/janet
> 

In that vein, you can also use one of the Lua packages/ports with Fennel.

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 18:26     ` Csepp
@ 2023-01-19 18:33       ` Jacob Moody
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Jacob Moody @ 2023-01-19 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On 1/19/23 11:26, Csepp wrote:
> 
> ori@eigenstate.org writes:
> 
>> Quoth Lassi Kortela <lassi@lassi.io>:
>>>> i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme.
>>>
>>> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
>>>
>>
>> And more recently, Janet:
>>
>> https://git.sr.ht/~pixelherodev/janet
>>
> 
> In that vein, you can also use one of the Lua packages/ports with Fennel.
> 

Might also be worth mentioning here as well, but I did some work to get
a variant of clojure written in go running under 9front. As far as I know
it should still work.

https://github.com/candid82/joker


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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-19 17:07       ` Skip Tavakkolian
@ 2023-01-20 19:45         ` Bakul Shah
  2023-01-23 11:31           ` Nick LaForge
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-20 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2579 bytes --]

Thanks!

Nick Nickolov's k comes with solutions to ~150  AoC-{2015..2022} puzzles. All run when you make k! As an example, here is aoc/21/25.k (Game of Sea Cucumbers, which Russ vlogged about): 

#!../../k
n:#'1*:\x:".>v"?0:"i/25"
(l;d;r;u):n/'n!'/:(!n)+/:3(|1 -1*)\!2 /left down right up
i:0;{i+:1;x:a[r]+x*~a:(1=x)>x l;(2*a d)+x*~a:(2=x)>x u}/,/x;i

[Of course, the real fun is in solving these puzzles but it helps to know what others do!]
Unfortunately no plan9 port as it relies on mmap.

https://codeberg.org/ngn/k
https://xpqz.github.io/kbook/Introduction.html
https://github.com/razetime/ngn-k-tutorial

It is also one of the fastest (~0.5 sec to generate and add a billion numbers on a Ryzen 2700).

> On Jan 19, 2023, at 9:07 AM, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Regarding Ivy, rsc has some fantastic example code in the form of
> solutions to the Advent of Code 2021 puzzles:
> https://www.youtube.com/@rscgolang/videos
> 
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 7:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>> 
>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 <mkf9@riseup.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Lassi Kortela wrote:
>>>> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
>>> and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9,
>>> https://github.com/bakul/s9fes.
>> 
>> Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original
>> port with some help from me. He didn't want to
>> maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am
>> maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but
>> AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9.
>> 
>> Speaking of little languages....
>> Nils also ported his klong array programming language
>> to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose
>> than k (roughly k3 from kx.com)
>> 
>> Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports
>> a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And
>> there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it
>> compiles & runs on 9front:
>> 
>> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i
>> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg
>> % cd i
>> % go build '-buildvcs=false'
>> % ./k
>> ktye/k
>> !10
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
>> +\!10
>> 0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45
>> d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6)
>> d
>> `a|1 2
>> `b|3 4
>> `c|5 6
>> +d
>> a b c
>> -----
>> 1 3 5
>> 2 4 6
>> \\
>> 
>> There is of course Rob Pike's ivy.

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* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-20 19:45         ` Bakul Shah
@ 2023-01-23 11:31           ` Nick LaForge
  2023-01-23 11:45             ` Lassi Kortela
  2023-01-25 22:59             ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Nick LaForge @ 2023-01-23 11:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3201 bytes --]

Not Plan 9, but lately I've been working in Chicken, which is a lovely
pragmatic Scheme for *nix: https://www.call-cc.org/ . Perhaps I should give
s9fes a shot as well!

Nick

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:47 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> Nick Nickolov's k comes with solutions to ~150  AoC-{2015..2022} puzzles.
> All run when you make k! As an example, here is aoc/21/25.k (Game of Sea
> Cucumbers, which Russ vlogged about):
>
> #!../../k
> n:#'1*:\x:".>v"?0:"i/25"
> (l;d;r;u):n/'n!'/:(!n)+/:3(|1 -1*)\!2 /left down right up
> i:0;{i+:1;x:a[r]+x*~a:(1=x)>x l;(2*a d)+x*~a:(2=x)>x u}/,/x;i
>
> [Of course, the real fun is in solving these puzzles but it helps to know
> what others do!]
> Unfortunately no plan9 port as it relies on mmap.
>
> https://codeberg.org/ngn/k
> https://xpqz.github.io/kbook/Introduction.html
> https://github.com/razetime/ngn-k-tutorial
>
> It is also one of the fastest (~0.5 sec to generate and add a billion
> numbers on a Ryzen 2700).
>
> On Jan 19, 2023, at 9:07 AM, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Regarding Ivy, rsc has some fantastic example code in the form of
> solutions to the Advent of Code 2021 puzzles:
> https://www.youtube.com/@rscgolang/videos
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 7:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 <mkf9@riseup.net> wrote:
>
>
> Lassi Kortela wrote:
>
> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
>
> and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9,
> https://github.com/bakul/s9fes.
>
>
> Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original
> port with some help from me. He didn't want to
> maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am
> maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but
> AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9.
>
> Speaking of little languages....
> Nils also ported his klong array programming language
> to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose
> than k (roughly k3 from kx.com)
>
> Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports
> a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And
> there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it
> compiles & runs on 9front:
>
> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i
> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg
> % cd i
> % go build '-buildvcs=false'
> % ./k
> ktye/k
> !10
> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
> +\!10
> 0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45
> d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6)
> d
> `a|1 2
> `b|3 4
> `c|5 6
> +d
> a b c
> -----
> 1 3 5
> 2 4 6
> \\
> 
> There is of course Rob Pike's ivy.
> 
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-23 11:31           ` Nick LaForge
@ 2023-01-23 11:45             ` Lassi Kortela
  2023-01-25 14:12               ` Ahmed Khaled
  2023-01-25 22:59             ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-23 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Not Plan 9, but lately I've been working in Chicken, which is a lovely 
> pragmatic Scheme for *nix: https://www.call-cc.org/ . Perhaps I should 
> give s9fes a shot as well!

Chicken and Gambit are the most portable "big" Scheme implementations. 
Both come with a Scheme->C compiler and a separate Scheme interpreter. 
With luck, it's possible to port them to Plan 9 with modest effort. 
People have built recent versions of Chicken with compilers smaller than 
GCC and Clang (it was probably tcc). Gambit should be able to target 
ANSI C. Both implementations use "green threads".

s9fes and Chibi-Scheme are featherweight by comparison, as is 
TinyScheme. All probably easy to port to Plan 9.

s7 is another small interpreter that ships in one .c file and is 
actively maintained. Possibly also easy to port.


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-23 11:45             ` Lassi Kortela
@ 2023-01-25 14:12               ` Ahmed Khaled
  2023-01-26 19:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Ahmed Khaled @ 2023-01-25 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Jan 23 2023 at 01:45:08 PM +0200, Lassi Kortela 
<lassi@lassi.io> wrote:
> Chibi-Scheme are featherweight
 >With luck, it's possible to port them to Plan 9 with modest effort.

I'm a beginner programmer who didn't get his hand dirty with coding. 
but I'm willing.

Do you recommend it as first step. I know C programming, I did read 
some of acme code for fun, and rob pike Ivy too. I def know what scheme 
and lisp is. I like the idea behind Data is code and code could be 
data. but I didn't do anything useful yet. sadly I know a little about 
OS, bytecode, and VM.

if it's a good beginning, where can I start to know what makes a 
program run on *nix and not on Plan9 and so on.

Or it's not a good first step ?
I really wanna get over this step



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-23 11:31           ` Nick LaForge
  2023-01-23 11:45             ` Lassi Kortela
@ 2023-01-25 22:59             ` Bakul Shah
  2023-01-26  7:18               ` Lassi Kortela
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-25 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-25 22:59             ` Bakul Shah
@ 2023-01-26  7:18               ` Lassi Kortela
  2023-01-26 18:18                 ` Tony Mendoza
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-26  7:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, Bakul Shah

> While creating a scheme interpreter is relatively easy, what is 
> missing is an industrial strength scheme “with batteries included” (Go 
> is a good example of this). And no, IMHO Racket is not it.

Gauche is the Scheme with the most "batteries included".


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-26  7:18               ` Lassi Kortela
@ 2023-01-26 18:18                 ` Tony Mendoza
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Tony Mendoza @ 2023-01-26 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, Bakul Shah

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
  2023-01-25 14:12               ` Ahmed Khaled
@ 2023-01-26 19:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2023-01-26 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

It's hard to give a useful answer without knowing how much theory and
practice someone has.  As you already know, reading good code and
emulating the structure and style of good programs is a good practice.
I find that implementing simple versions of
tools/protocols/languages/etc. is very good practice for learning a
subject or a language. I find that the language I use will constrain
my thinking, and try to use one that fits the problem; but sometimes
that decision is made for me because there is a lot of momentum --
investment in tools, code and knowhow (e.g. C for OS, Python for ML,
etc.).

As for coding on Plan 9, generally for me, understanding how to
architect the namespace to minimize the code required to accomplish a
task is the key. There are several good rc examples that do things
that on other OS require a lot of specialized code & libraries.


On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 6:14 AM Ahmed Khaled <xxzeroxxah@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 23 2023 at 01:45:08 PM +0200, Lassi Kortela
> <lassi@lassi.io> wrote:
> > Chibi-Scheme are featherweight
>  >With luck, it's possible to port them to Plan 9 with modest effort.
> 
> I'm a beginner programmer who didn't get his hand dirty with coding.
> but I'm willing.
> 
> Do you recommend it as first step. I know C programming, I did read
> some of acme code for fun, and rob pike Ivy too. I def know what scheme
> and lisp is. I like the idea behind Data is code and code could be
> data. but I didn't do anything useful yet. sadly I know a little about
> OS, bytecode, and VM.
> 
> if it's a good beginning, where can I start to know what makes a
> program run on *nix and not on Plan9 and so on.
> 
> Or it's not a good first step ?
> I really wanna get over this step
> 

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2023-01-26 19:34 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-01-19  7:09 [9fans] plan 9 and lisp fig
2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela
2023-01-19 15:28   ` ori
2023-01-19 18:26     ` Csepp
2023-01-19 18:33       ` Jacob Moody
2023-01-19 15:57   ` mkf9
2023-01-19 15:47     ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-19 16:01       ` Dan Cross
2023-01-19 16:13         ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-19 17:07       ` Skip Tavakkolian
2023-01-20 19:45         ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-23 11:31           ` Nick LaForge
2023-01-23 11:45             ` Lassi Kortela
2023-01-25 14:12               ` Ahmed Khaled
2023-01-26 19:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2023-01-25 22:59             ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-26  7:18               ` Lassi Kortela
2023-01-26 18:18                 ` Tony Mendoza
2023-01-19 11:29 ` Edward Partenie

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