[9front] Two errors in fqa

[9front] Two errors in fqa

[sirjofri]

Hello all,

I just found two errors in fqa (the online html version):

1.3.0.1: The url to "They Live and the secret history of the Mozilla 
logo" doesn't work. It starts with a `"` and therefore leads to 
http://fqa.9front.org/.../"https://...

1.3.1: source updates are done with ~~hg(1) (Mercurial)~~ git(1)

That's what I found in these sections.

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Stanley Lieber]

On June 19, 2021 3:29:17 AM EDT, sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de> wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I just found two errors in fqa (the online html version):

thanks!


>1.3.0.1: The url to "They Live and the secret history of the Mozilla 
>logo" doesn't work. It starts with a `"` and therefore leads to 
>http://fqa.9front.org/.../"https://...

can reproduce the failure in firefox, but I don't see the leading ". the html looks correct, I can't understand why it renders the way it does. any ideas?


>1.3.1: source updates are done with ~~hg(1) (Mercurial)~~ git(1)
>

I didn't have any warning we were switching to git right away. the fqa still refers to hg throughout. I'm working on it.

sl

AW: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[sirjofri]

19.06.2021 17:49:52 Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
> On June 19, 2021 3:29:17 AM EDT, sirjofri 
> <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I just found two errors in fqa (the online html version):
>
> thanks!
>
>
>> 1.3.0.1: The url to "They Live and the secret history of the Mozilla
>> logo" doesn't work. It starts with a `"` and therefore leads to
>> http://fqa.9front.org/.../"https://...
>
> can reproduce the failure in firefox, but I don't see the leading ". 
> the html looks correct, I can't understand why it renders the way it 
> does. any ideas?

This is the exact URL I get when copying the URL in chrome on android:

http://fqa.9front.org/%E2%80%9Dhttps://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/10/they-live-and-the-secret-history-of-the-mozilla-logo/%22

I looked at the source and it's:

<a href=”https

Note that the rune ” is used instead of ascii ".

>> 1.3.1: source updates are done with ~~hg(1) (Mercurial)~~ git(1)
>>
>
> I didn't have any warning we were switching to git right away. the fqa 
> still refers to hg throughout. I'm working on it.

When sysupdating with sysupdate it fetches the last update from hg, which 
contains git9 and a new version of sysupdate itself. This new sysupdate 
(after mk install) fetches the .git seed directory, which allows to fetch 
the new updates into /dist/plan9front. All following sysupdates work like 
before, but using git9 instead of hg.

I don't know what exactly is the plan, but that's at least what I get as 
a normal user with sysupdate. If in doubt, ask ori? I haven't been very 
active in the community lately due to work and Unreal Engine 5.

sirjofri

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Stanley Lieber]

On June 20, 2021 3:08:19 AM EDT, sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de> wrote:
>
>This is the exact URL I get when copying the URL in chrome on android:
>
>http://fqa.9front.org/%E2%80%9Dhttps://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/10/they-live-and-the-secret-history-of-the-mozilla-logo/%22
>
>I looked at the source and it's:
>
><a href=”https
>
>Note that the rune ” is used instead of ascii ".

ah, now I see. it's fixed now. thanks!


>>> 1.3.1: source updates are done with ~~hg(1) (Mercurial)~~ git(1)
>>>
>>
>> I didn't have any warning we were switching to git right away. the fqa 
>> still refers to hg throughout. I'm working on it.
>
>When sysupdating with sysupdate it fetches the last update from hg, which 
>contains git9 and a new version of sysupdate itself. This new sysupdate 
>(after mk install) fetches the .git seed directory, which allows to fetch 
>the new updates into /dist/plan9front. All following sysupdates work like 
>before, but using git9 instead of hg.

yeah, I know *what* happened. what I meant was, I didn't know it was *going* to happen, so I'm lagging behind updating fqa.

sl

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[cinap_lenrek]

> yeah, I know *what* happened. what I meant was, I didn't know it was *going* to happen, so I'm lagging behind updating fqa.

we can wait with the official release until the fqa is ready,
myself being a bit on a learning curve :-)

i made some test images a few days ago, mainly to test my
automatic build script.

http://lux.felloff.net/usr/cinap_lenrek/9front/

9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.386.iso
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.386.iso.gz
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.386.iso.gz.torrent
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.amd64.iso
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.amd64.iso.gz
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.amd64.iso.gz.torrent
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.pi.img
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.pi.img.gz
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.pi.img.gz.torrent
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.pi3.img
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.pi3.img.gz
9front-8516.a73a964e51247ed169d322c725a3a18859f109a3.pi3.img.gz.torrent

--
cinap

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[sl]

>> yeah, I know *what* happened. what I meant was, I didn't know
>> it was *going* to happen, so I'm lagging behind updating fqa.
>
> we can wait with the official release until the fqa is ready,
> myself being a bit on a learning curve :-)

i removed the hg stuff from fqa5 that dealt with authentication,
factotum, hgrc, etc. if we want to re-insert git versions of all
that, i may need some help writing it up.

sl

AW: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[sirjofri]

20.06.2021 17:19:12 Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
>>>
>>> I didn't have any warning we were switching to git right away. the 
>>> fqa
>>> still refers to hg throughout. I'm working on it.
>>
> yeah, I know *what* happened. what I meant was, I didn't know it was 
> *going* to happen, so I'm lagging behind updating fqa.

Sorry, I should read more carefully. I noticed it after I read your 
response again.

I also think most people who are already affected due to sysupdate 
already know and don't worry if the fqa lags a little. It's great work 
you're doing and I hope I can find some time to help and support you 
again 🙂

sirjofri

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Stanley Lieber]

On June 20, 2021 4:06:09 PM EDT, sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de> wrote:
>
>20.06.2021 17:19:12 Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
>>>>
>>>> I didn't have any warning we were switching to git right away. the 
>>>> fqa
>>>> still refers to hg throughout. I'm working on it.
>>>
>> yeah, I know *what* happened. what I meant was, I didn't know it was 
>> *going* to happen, so I'm lagging behind updating fqa.
>
>Sorry, I should read more carefully. I noticed it after I read your 
>response again.
>
>I also think most people who are already affected due to sysupdate 
>already know and don't worry if the fqa lags a little. It's great work 
>you're doing and I hope I can find some time to help and support you 
>again 🙂
>
>sirjofri
>

no trouble at all. thank you for pointing out the broken link!

sl

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[ori]

Quoth Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
> I didn't have any warning we were switching to git right away. the fqa still refers to hg throughout. I'm working on it.

Want help? I can probably dig through and send in patches,
but if you're already doing an initial pass, I'm guessing
we'd just generate conflicts.

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[sl]

> Want help?

i think i got everything.

sorry for the delay in this, i've been afk drawing on paper.

sl

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[ori]

Quoth sl@stanleylieber.com:
> > Want help?
> 
> i think i got everything.
> 
> sorry for the delay in this, i've been afk drawing on paper.
> 
> sl
> 

Sorry for not sending in fqa patches as part of the transition;
I should have remembered to do it.

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Stuart Morrow]

This seems as good a place as any to point out that people apparently
find the FQA hard to find...: https://youtu.be/rTQe3W37RBA?t=1276

I think what has happened is: it used to be clear that 'FQA' was the
FAQ, but now that we have the wiki on the front page *and the link is
called 'docs'*, people are going to the wiki thinking it's the
documentation, and since you don't keep looking for something once
you've already found it (or think you have), they never find the
actual documentation.

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Stanley Lieber]

On June 24, 2021 6:26:05 PM EDT, Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com> wrote:
>This seems as good a place as any to point out that people apparently
>find the FQA hard to find...: https://youtu.be/rTQe3W37RBA?t=1276
>
>I think what has happened is: it used to be clear that 'FQA' was the
>FAQ, but now that we have the wiki on the front page *and the link is
>called 'docs'*, people are going to the wiki thinking it's the
>documentation, and since you don't keep looking for something once
>you've already found it (or think you have), they never find the
>actual documentation.
>

maybe the docs wiki could link more prominently to the fqa.

sl

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir]

Quoth Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
> On June 24, 2021 6:26:05 PM EDT, Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com> wrote:
> >This seems as good a place as any to point out that people apparently
> >find the FQA hard to find...: https://youtu.be/rTQe3W37RBA?t=1276
> >
> >I think what has happened is: it used to be clear that 'FQA' was the
> >FAQ, but now that we have the wiki on the front page *and the link is
> >called 'docs'*, people are going to the wiki thinking it's the
> >documentation, and since you don't keep looking for something once
> >you've already found it (or think you have), they never find the
> >actual documentation.
> >
> 
> maybe the docs wiki could link more prominently to the fqa.
> 
> sl

I added a note at the top of index to point out FQA is the way to go.

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Stanley Lieber]

On June 25, 2021 2:03:19 PM EDT, "Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir" <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:
>Quoth Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
>> On June 24, 2021 6:26:05 PM EDT, Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >This seems as good a place as any to point out that people apparently
>> >find the FQA hard to find...: https://youtu.be/rTQe3W37RBA?t=1276
>> >
>> >I think what has happened is: it used to be clear that 'FQA' was the
>> >FAQ, but now that we have the wiki on the front page *and the link is
>> >called 'docs'*, people are going to the wiki thinking it's the
>> >documentation, and since you don't keep looking for something once
>> >you've already found it (or think you have), they never find the
>> >actual documentation.
>> >
>> 
>> maybe the docs wiki could link more prominently to the fqa.
>> 
>> sl
>
>I added a note at the top of index to point out FQA is the way to go.
>
>

thanks!

sl

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[hiro]

The main problem is if there has to be as much documentation as there
is that might suggest the system is already too complex :D

more seriously:

I'm happy that kvik's wiki got stolen and put inside the tree of the
9front.org website, at least everything is more in one place than
before (even though it's still just a website).

I tend to complain about everything sl does, mainly bec. he is
involved in doing many things. maybe this will help revise my former
half-assed comments:

1) shitty best-effort documentation is better than no documentation.
2) maybe some person is running straight from a new 9front iso and has
no web or internet access, this should be rewarded not penalized, so
...
(also, copy&paste is easier when the docs are on the same machine)
3) the .iso should contain all possible best and worst effort
documentation that has been gathered so far
4) the 9front/cat-v websites should also include all the documentation
(e.g. that's why man pages are accessible via the web, too), bec. some
people have 2 computers, and one of them can be used to read the
documentation on the website

the rest, like how easy it is to find the wiki on the website,
shouldn't matter much in comparison, as it being web means it should
show up on google anyway, as even the guy in the youtube video found
out.

and maybe if morale improves and people like me also add some effort
to improve upon the content already there, the low quality or
duplicated scattered information will get more readable and more
efficient and shorter, too.

so far i revoked all attempts made by myself to improve upon
documentation as i wasn't happy with the inefficiency of my english
that i came up with.

On 6/25/21, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quoth Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
>> On June 24, 2021 6:26:05 PM EDT, Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >This seems as good a place as any to point out that people apparently
>> >find the FQA hard to find...: https://youtu.be/rTQe3W37RBA?t=1276
>> >
>> >I think what has happened is: it used to be clear that 'FQA' was the
>> >FAQ, but now that we have the wiki on the front page *and the link is
>> >called 'docs'*, people are going to the wiki thinking it's the
>> >documentation, and since you don't keep looking for something once
>> >you've already found it (or think you have), they never find the
>> >actual documentation.
>> >
>>
>> maybe the docs wiki could link more prominently to the fqa.
>>
>> sl
>
> I added a note at the top of index to point out FQA is the way to go.
>
>

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Kurt H Maier]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 11:26:05PM +0100, Stuart Morrow wrote:
> This seems as good a place as any to point out that people apparently
> find the FQA hard to find...: https://youtu.be/rTQe3W37RBA?t=1276
> 
> I think what has happened is: it used to be clear that 'FQA' was the
> FAQ, but now that we have the wiki on the front page *and the link is
> called 'docs'*, people are going to the wiki thinking it's the
> documentation, and since you don't keep looking for something once
> you've already found it (or think you have), they never find the
> actual documentation.

I guess we're too busy wannabeing 90s hackers to help Systems with JT.

I don't know what to tell people who manage to get their hands on the
ISO but somehow completely ignore the pdf handbook linked on every
single release page.  I guess it's just as well, since most of the 
people who do find it complain about it. 

What is wrong with people finding the wiki, anyway?

khm

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Stuart Morrow]

On 25/06/2021, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
> What is wrong with people finding the wiki, anyway?

Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it's called docs when it's really the
documentation equivalent of /extra.  So it's called docs and linked to
from the front page when it's really the furthest thing from *the*
documentation.

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir]

Maybe docs should have been called "community wiki" then?

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Kurt H Maier]

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 12:16:22PM +0100, Stuart Morrow wrote:
> On 25/06/2021, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
> > What is wrong with people finding the wiki, anyway?
> 
> Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it's called docs when it's really the
> documentation equivalent of /extra.  So it's called docs and linked to
> from the front page when it's really the furthest thing from *the*
> documentation.

I don't think the intention is for that wiki to be /extra-like.  I can't
speak for kvik but I always thought the goal was to be comprehensive.

People complained that the FQA was considered 'the' documentation when
nobody voted for sl, now people are complaining that other efforts are
masquerading as 'the' documentation.  Unless and until the project
develops a watery tart to lob scimitars at people I don't see the
advantage in promoting one best-effort documentation project over
another, even if I happen to prefer one.

khm

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Stanley Lieber]

On June 25, 2021 6:40:44 PM EDT, kvik <kvik@a-b.xyz> wrote:
>The name 'docs' is unfortunate.
>I did not (neccessarilly) hope for it to be a The Documentation thing.
>It was primarily to be a dumping ground for articles that can't be manual pages or aren't, under my interpretation, a fit for the FQA, or aren't /sys/doc-worthy (yet?) -- most people would call it a wiki...
>
>25 Jun 2021 23:16:38 Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 12:16:22PM +0100, Stuart Morrow wrote:
>>> On 25/06/2021, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>>> What is wrong with people finding the wiki, anyway?
>>> 
>>> Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it's called docs when it's really the
>>> documentation equivalent of /extra.  So it's called docs and linked to
>>> from the front page when it's really the furthest thing from *the*
>>> documentation.
>> 
>> I don't think the intention is for that wiki to be /extra-like.  I can't
>> speak for kvik but I always thought the goal was to be comprehensive.
>> 
>> People complained that the FQA was considered 'the' documentation when
>> nobody voted for sl, now people are complaining that other efforts are
>> masquerading as 'the' documentation.  Unless and until the project
>> develops a watery tart to lob scimitars at people I don't see the
>> advantage in promoting one best-effort documentation project over
>> another, even if I happen to prefer one.
>> 
>> khm
>

maybe we could rename it to wiki?

sl

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[kvik]

Sure, we can rename it. I'm gonna set up a redirect next week when I'm home, somebody else with write access can substitute the words beforehand.

26 Jun 2021 05:21:27 Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:

> On June 25, 2021 6:40:44 PM EDT, kvik <kvik@a-b.xyz> wrote:
>> The name 'docs' is unfortunate.
>> I did not (neccessarilly) hope for it to be a The Documentation thing.
>> It was primarily to be a dumping ground for articles that can't be manual pages or aren't, under my interpretation, a fit for the FQA, or aren't /sys/doc-worthy (yet?) -- most people would call it a wiki...
>> 
>> 25 Jun 2021 23:16:38 Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 12:16:22PM +0100, Stuart Morrow wrote:
>>>> On 25/06/2021, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>>>> What is wrong with people finding the wiki, anyway?
>>>> 
>>>> Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it's called docs when it's really the
>>>> documentation equivalent of /extra.  So it's called docs and linked to
>>>> from the front page when it's really the furthest thing from *the*
>>>> documentation.
>>> 
>>> I don't think the intention is for that wiki to be /extra-like.  I can't
>>> speak for kvik but I always thought the goal was to be comprehensive.
>>> 
>>> People complained that the FQA was considered 'the' documentation when
>>> nobody voted for sl, now people are complaining that other efforts are
>>> masquerading as 'the' documentation.  Unless and until the project
>>> develops a watery tart to lob scimitars at people I don't see the
>>> advantage in promoting one best-effort documentation project over
>>> another, even if I happen to prefer one.
>>> 
>>> khm
>> 
> 
> maybe we could rename it to wiki?
> 
> sl

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[kvik]

Quoth kvik <kvik@a-b.xyz>:
> Sure, we can rename it. I'm gonna set up a redirect next week when I'm home, somebody else with write access can substitute the words beforehand.

It's been done. The DNS change will take a while to propagate.

I've also renamed the repository on sourcehut, which means commiters
will have to adjust their .git/config to point at

	https://git.sr.ht/~kvik/wiki.9front.org

sl, when you find some time you should do the same for docs.9front.org
domain and cetera.

Sorry for the mess. Naming is hard.

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[Kurt H Maier]

On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 08:12:13PM +0200, kvik@a-b.xyz wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the mess. Naming is hard.
> 

None of this is your fault.  Expectation-management is a common problem,
and it's completely intractable when the expectations to be managed are
those of complete strangers wandering past at random.  I don't really
think it's worth putting a huge amount of effort into, since no matter
what you do there will be someone whining, somewhere.

khm

Re: [9front] Two errors in fqa

[sl]

> sl, when you find some time you should do the same for docs.9front.org
> domain and cetera.

moved everything to wiki.9front.org and now redirecting docs.9front.org
to wiki.9front.org.

fqa links are updated.

sl