[Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Eray Ozkural]

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Dear Ocaml list,

I would be very pleased if the members who have a lasting interest in the
subject of human-level AI would network with me. We have a startup working
on that subject. Our code base is mainly in ocaml, and our team might need
some extra programmers in the near future. Although this is not a formal
job advertisement (yet), those who would like to get in touch may just send
me a mail for meeting and briefly introduce themselves. I would very much
welcome such personal networking and getting to know fellow functional
programming hackers who are also interested in advancing the
state-of-the-art in machine learning.

Kind Regards,

-- 
Eray Ozkural, PhD. Computer Scientist
Founder, Gok Us Sibernetik Ar&Ge Ltd.

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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Peter Zotov]

On 2015-01-10 19:29, Eray Ozkural wrote:
> Dear Ocaml list,
> 
> I would be very pleased if the members who have a lasting interest in
> the subject of human-level AI would network with me. We have a startup
> working on that subject. Our code base is mainly in ocaml, and our
> team might need some extra programmers in the near future. Although
> this is not a formal job advertisement (yet), those who would like to
> get in touch may just send me a mail for meeting and briefly introduce
> themselves. I would very much welcome such personal networking and
> getting to know fellow functional programming hackers who are also
> interested in advancing the state-of-the-art in machine learning.

Do you think that once implemented, such an AI would be able
to implement a decent build system for OCaml?
I think it would be a very worthwhile goal.

-- 
Peter Zotov

Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Eray Ozkural]

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Dear Peter,

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Peter Zotov <whitequark@whitequark.org>
wrote:

> On 2015-01-10 19:29, Eray Ozkural wrote:
>
>> Dear Ocaml list,
>>
>> I would be very pleased if the members who have a lasting interest in
>> the subject of human-level AI would network with me. We have a startup
>> working on that subject. Our code base is mainly in ocaml, and our
>> team might need some extra programmers in the near future. Although
>> this is not a formal job advertisement (yet), those who would like to
>> get in touch may just send me a mail for meeting and briefly introduce
>> themselves. I would very much welcome such personal networking and
>> getting to know fellow functional programming hackers who are also
>> interested in advancing the state-of-the-art in machine learning.
>>
>
> Do you think that once implemented, such an AI would be able
> to implement a decent build system for OCaml?
> I think it would be a very worthwhile goal.
>


Haha! I am still using that OCaml Makefile that I got from somewhere. So I
suppose that would mean it would have to be a better programmer than
I am. We do fully intend to achieve that one day. Can an AI be as creative
as a human? That was one of the popular objections that Turing evaluated
in his 1950 paper. Theory suggests there is no reason why. Also, it is
already
conceivable as a (quite high tech) extension of automatic programming
methods. If you can specify the programming problem logically, yes, a
general-purpose AI system (universal problem solver kind) should be able
to solve it. Can it do better than all programmers? Such solutions have not
been yet demonstrated, but why not? AI could be better at chip design than
we are, but also could be better at algorithm design. We just haven't done
it
at a very large scale yet. We're waiting for a Chicago Pile moment ;)

Having said that, I do have an awesome makefile library that I once released
called justmake. Let me extend that to include ocaml code and maybe we'll
use that in-house. Thanks for reminding that to me. I should also upload a
lot
of nice bits and pieces to github for easy access.

Best Regards,

-- 
Eray Ozkural, PhD. Computer Scientist
Founder, Gok Us Sibernetik Ar&Ge Ltd.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ai-philosophy

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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Kenneth Adam Miller]

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What's wrong with oasis and it's build system? I like that, it does a good
job if you take the time to learn it and put effort in your package details.

The only thing I think the ocaml environment is missing is a static check
of the surrounding environment for the tools that will be used, for use in
opam. That way, when stuff builds, you get told all the dependencies
instead of doing iterations of finding each missing thing by hand.

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Eray Ozkural <examachine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Peter,
>
> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Peter Zotov <whitequark@whitequark.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-01-10 19:29, Eray Ozkural wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Ocaml list,
>>>
>>> I would be very pleased if the members who have a lasting interest in
>>> the subject of human-level AI would network with me. We have a startup
>>> working on that subject. Our code base is mainly in ocaml, and our
>>> team might need some extra programmers in the near future. Although
>>> this is not a formal job advertisement (yet), those who would like to
>>> get in touch may just send me a mail for meeting and briefly introduce
>>> themselves. I would very much welcome such personal networking and
>>> getting to know fellow functional programming hackers who are also
>>> interested in advancing the state-of-the-art in machine learning.
>>>
>>
>> Do you think that once implemented, such an AI would be able
>> to implement a decent build system for OCaml?
>> I think it would be a very worthwhile goal.
>>
>
>
> Haha! I am still using that OCaml Makefile that I got from somewhere. So I
> suppose that would mean it would have to be a better programmer than
> I am. We do fully intend to achieve that one day. Can an AI be as creative
> as a human? That was one of the popular objections that Turing evaluated
> in his 1950 paper. Theory suggests there is no reason why. Also, it is
> already
> conceivable as a (quite high tech) extension of automatic programming
> methods. If you can specify the programming problem logically, yes, a
> general-purpose AI system (universal problem solver kind) should be able
> to solve it. Can it do better than all programmers? Such solutions have not
> been yet demonstrated, but why not? AI could be better at chip design than
> we are, but also could be better at algorithm design. We just haven't done
> it
> at a very large scale yet. We're waiting for a Chicago Pile moment ;)
>
> Having said that, I do have an awesome makefile library that I once
> released
> called justmake. Let me extend that to include ocaml code and maybe we'll
> use that in-house. Thanks for reminding that to me. I should also upload a
> lot
> of nice bits and pieces to github for easy access.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --
> Eray Ozkural, PhD. Computer Scientist
> Founder, Gok Us Sibernetik Ar&Ge Ltd.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ai-philosophy
>

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Re: [Caml-list] opam-installext (Was: Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI)

[Anil Madhavapeddy]

On 10 Jan 2015, at 18:44, Kenneth Adam Miller <kennethadammiller@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The only thing I think the ocaml environment is missing is a static check of the surrounding environment for the tools that will be used, for use in opam. That way, when stuff builds, you get told all the dependencies instead of doing iterations of finding each missing thing by hand.

There's an OPAM plugin that the automated tests use that you may be interested in trying out.

Install it with:

    opam install opam-installext

Then, if you have `sudo` configured correct you can just do:

    opam installext <pkg1> <pkg2> ...

It will query the `depexts` field for each package which contains OS-specific external dependencies.

It's still not particularly well integrated into OPAM as it's external, but full support is in the works so that a plugin won't be needed in future revisions of OPAM.

-anil

Re: [Caml-list] opam-installext (Was: Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI)

[Kenneth Adam Miller]

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Thanks!

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Anil Madhavapeddy <anil@recoil.org> wrote:

> On 10 Jan 2015, at 18:44, Kenneth Adam Miller <kennethadammiller@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > The only thing I think the ocaml environment is missing is a static
> check of the surrounding environment for the tools that will be used, for
> use in opam. That way, when stuff builds, you get told all the dependencies
> instead of doing iterations of finding each missing thing by hand.
>
> There's an OPAM plugin that the automated tests use that you may be
> interested in trying out.
>
> Install it with:
>
>     opam install opam-installext
>
> Then, if you have `sudo` configured correct you can just do:
>
>     opam installext <pkg1> <pkg2> ...
>
> It will query the `depexts` field for each package which contains
> OS-specific external dependencies.
>
> It's still not particularly well integrated into OPAM as it's external,
> but full support is in the works so that a plugin won't be needed in future
> revisions of OPAM.
>
> -anil
>
>

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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Eray Ozkural]

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I think oasis is pretty good, just didn't have time to try it, thoroughly
TBH.
I think I was trying something and then I couldn't do it so I went back to
my
makefile (which was pretty easy to maintain).

Cheers,

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Kenneth Adam Miller <
kennethadammiller@gmail.com> wrote:

> What's wrong with oasis and it's build system? I like that, it does a good
> job if you take the time to learn it and put effort in your package details.
>
> The only thing I think the ocaml environment is missing is a static check
> of the surrounding environment for the tools that will be used, for use in
> opam. That way, when stuff builds, you get told all the dependencies
> instead of doing iterations of finding each missing thing by hand.
>
> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Eray Ozkural <examachine@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Peter,
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Peter Zotov <whitequark@whitequark.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-01-10 19:29, Eray Ozkural wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Ocaml list,
>>>>
>>>> I would be very pleased if the members who have a lasting interest in
>>>> the subject of human-level AI would network with me. We have a startup
>>>> working on that subject. Our code base is mainly in ocaml, and our
>>>> team might need some extra programmers in the near future. Although
>>>> this is not a formal job advertisement (yet), those who would like to
>>>> get in touch may just send me a mail for meeting and briefly introduce
>>>> themselves. I would very much welcome such personal networking and
>>>> getting to know fellow functional programming hackers who are also
>>>> interested in advancing the state-of-the-art in machine learning.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do you think that once implemented, such an AI would be able
>>> to implement a decent build system for OCaml?
>>> I think it would be a very worthwhile goal.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Haha! I am still using that OCaml Makefile that I got from somewhere. So I
>> suppose that would mean it would have to be a better programmer than
>> I am. We do fully intend to achieve that one day. Can an AI be as creative
>> as a human? That was one of the popular objections that Turing evaluated
>> in his 1950 paper. Theory suggests there is no reason why. Also, it is
>> already
>> conceivable as a (quite high tech) extension of automatic programming
>> methods. If you can specify the programming problem logically, yes, a
>> general-purpose AI system (universal problem solver kind) should be able
>> to solve it. Can it do better than all programmers? Such solutions have
>> not
>> been yet demonstrated, but why not? AI could be better at chip design than
>> we are, but also could be better at algorithm design. We just haven't
>> done it
>> at a very large scale yet. We're waiting for a Chicago Pile moment ;)
>>
>> Having said that, I do have an awesome makefile library that I once
>> released
>> called justmake. Let me extend that to include ocaml code and maybe we'll
>> use that in-house. Thanks for reminding that to me. I should also upload
>> a lot
>> of nice bits and pieces to github for easy access.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> --
>> Eray Ozkural, PhD. Computer Scientist
>> Founder, Gok Us Sibernetik Ar&Ge Ltd.
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ai-philosophy
>>
>
>


-- 
Eray Ozkural, PhD. Computer Scientist
Founder, Gok Us Sibernetik Ar&Ge Ltd.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ai-philosophy

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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Benjamin Greenman]

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On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Kenneth Adam Miller <
kennethadammiller@gmail.com> wrote:

> What's wrong with oasis and it's build system?


https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list/2014-09/msg00132.html

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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Kenneth Adam Miller]

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What if we just used something like C++'s CMake (MPC, if you are
unfamiliar), that will just *generate* the appropriate build scripts for
whatever build tools you want? This would solve the windows problem and
work with any other tools.

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Benjamin Greenman <blg59@cornell.edu>
wrote:

>
> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Kenneth Adam Miller <
> kennethadammiller@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What's wrong with oasis and it's build system?
>
>
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list/2014-09/msg00132.html
>

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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Gerd Stolpmann]

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Am Samstag, den 10.01.2015, 21:13 +0300 schrieb Peter Zotov:
> On 2015-01-10 19:29, Eray Ozkural wrote:
> > Dear Ocaml list,
> > 
> > I would be very pleased if the members who have a lasting interest in
> > the subject of human-level AI would network with me. We have a startup
> > working on that subject. Our code base is mainly in ocaml, and our
> > team might need some extra programmers in the near future. Although
> > this is not a formal job advertisement (yet), those who would like to
> > get in touch may just send me a mail for meeting and briefly introduce
> > themselves. I would very much welcome such personal networking and
> > getting to know fellow functional programming hackers who are also
> > interested in advancing the state-of-the-art in machine learning.
> 
> Do you think that once implemented, such an AI would be able
> to implement a decent build system for OCaml?
> I think it would be a very worthwhile goal.

FYI, I'm currently hacking on the performance problems of omake for very
large builds (sponsored by Lexifi), and I'm making progress. My test
project with 4096 modules is now built in 7 minutes instead of 24
(single core). It's a fairly interesting exercise to view the build
system from the perspective of a performance engineer, e.g. I'm
currently redesigning the target cache that is backing the
interpretation of the "ocamldep -modules" output to quickly find the
files corresponding to the modules. 

Gerd
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
My OCaml site:          http://www.camlcity.org
Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Eray Ozkural]

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Typo: theory suggests no reason why not. See for instance Schmidhuber's
work on formal theory of creativity. AI will eventually surpass even the
most creative human programmers. We first intend to replace some easier
professions first, do not worry (just yet).

Cheers,
On Jan 10, 2015 8:38 PM, "Eray Ozkural" <examachine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Peter,
>
> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Peter Zotov <whitequark@whitequark.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-01-10 19:29, Eray Ozkural wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Ocaml list,
>>>
>>> I would be very pleased if the members who have a lasting interest in
>>> the subject of human-level AI would network with me. We have a startup
>>> working on that subject. Our code base is mainly in ocaml, and our
>>> team might need some extra programmers in the near future. Although
>>> this is not a formal job advertisement (yet), those who would like to
>>> get in touch may just send me a mail for meeting and briefly introduce
>>> themselves. I would very much welcome such personal networking and
>>> getting to know fellow functional programming hackers who are also
>>> interested in advancing the state-of-the-art in machine learning.
>>>
>>
>> Do you think that once implemented, such an AI would be able
>> to implement a decent build system for OCaml?
>> I think it would be a very worthwhile goal.
>>
>
>
> Haha! I am still using that OCaml Makefile that I got from somewhere. So I
> suppose that would mean it would have to be a better programmer than
> I am. We do fully intend to achieve that one day. Can an AI be as creative
> as a human? That was one of the popular objections that Turing evaluated
> in his 1950 paper. Theory suggests there is no reason why. Also, it is
> already
> conceivable as a (quite high tech) extension of automatic programming
> methods. If you can specify the programming problem logically, yes, a
> general-purpose AI system (universal problem solver kind) should be able
> to solve it. Can it do better than all programmers? Such solutions have not
> been yet demonstrated, but why not? AI could be better at chip design than
> we are, but also could be better at algorithm design. We just haven't done
> it
> at a very large scale yet. We're waiting for a Chicago Pile moment ;)
>
> Having said that, I do have an awesome makefile library that I once
> released
> called justmake. Let me extend that to include ocaml code and maybe we'll
> use that in-house. Thanks for reminding that to me. I should also upload a
> lot
> of nice bits and pieces to github for easy access.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --
> Eray Ozkural, PhD. Computer Scientist
> Founder, Gok Us Sibernetik Ar&Ge Ltd.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ai-philosophy
>

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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Ben Millwood]

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Let's not turn this into a (nother) thread about build systems.

On 11 January 2015 at 11:39, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> wrote:

> Am Samstag, den 10.01.2015, 21:13 +0300 schrieb Peter Zotov:
> > On 2015-01-10 19:29, Eray Ozkural wrote:
> > > Dear Ocaml list,
> > >
> > > I would be very pleased if the members who have a lasting interest in
> > > the subject of human-level AI would network with me. We have a startup
> > > working on that subject. Our code base is mainly in ocaml, and our
> > > team might need some extra programmers in the near future. Although
> > > this is not a formal job advertisement (yet), those who would like to
> > > get in touch may just send me a mail for meeting and briefly introduce
> > > themselves. I would very much welcome such personal networking and
> > > getting to know fellow functional programming hackers who are also
> > > interested in advancing the state-of-the-art in machine learning.
> >
> > Do you think that once implemented, such an AI would be able
> > to implement a decent build system for OCaml?
> > I think it would be a very worthwhile goal.
>
> FYI, I'm currently hacking on the performance problems of omake for very
> large builds (sponsored by Lexifi), and I'm making progress. My test
> project with 4096 modules is now built in 7 minutes instead of 24
> (single core). It's a fairly interesting exercise to view the build
> system from the perspective of a performance engineer, e.g. I'm
> currently redesigning the target cache that is backing the
> interpretation of the "ocamldep -modules" output to quickly find the
> files corresponding to the modules.
>
> Gerd
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
> My OCaml site:          http://www.camlcity.org
> Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
> Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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Re: [Caml-list] Ocaml programmers interested in human-level AI

[Adrien Nader]

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015, Kenneth Adam Miller wrote:
> What if we just used something like C++'s CMake (MPC, if you are
> unfamiliar), that will just *generate* the appropriate build scripts for
> whatever build tools you want? This would solve the windows problem and
> work with any other tools.

Small correction:

> the windows problem

It's the "MSVC problem". And CMake doesn't try to do things for anything
else. Actually it downgrades other platforms down to its lowest common
build system denominator: MSVC on Windows with a closed development
model and no maintenance.

-- 
Adrien Nader