A New Year's Resolution

A New Year's Resolution

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

I'm going to answer mail sent to "larsi" and "lmi" within
deterministic¹ time this year.  This time I really mean it.  I really,
really mean it.  Really.  This time.

(200 messages from mail.misc responded to; 450 to go.  I wonder
whether I'm going to accidentally lean on the `d' key now.  Is there
any point in responding to mail that more than 4 months old?  I suck.)

-----
¹) Like -- every Sunday at 23:59, there shall be no mail older than 24 
hours in mail.misc.  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[wjhardaker]

>>>>> On 02 Jan 2000 07:11:24 +0100, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said:

Lars> I wonder whether I'm going to accidentally lean on the `d' key
Lars> now.  Is there any point in responding to mail that more than 4
Lars> months old?

You know, I wonder how many software package owners have similar
problems (and what they do about it).  My problem is that I enter a
folder, and immediately hit C-M-> out of habit and only look at the
last few.  My mailing list for my coders mailing list (ding list
equivalent) has 181 unread messages in it (which indicates messages I
need to deal with).  And I wonder the same thing.  Is it worth the
effort to respond when some of them are that old?  They have certainly 
either solved the problem, discussion, or simply dropped it without my 
help at this point...

Sigh...

Let me know if you succeed.  I tend to do the "Lars Heavy Response
Wave" like you do where I hit huge mass mailing periods then enter
silence again for a while.
-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[William M. Perry]

wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu writes:

> >>>>> On 02 Jan 2000 07:11:24 +0100, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said:
> 
> Lars> I wonder whether I'm going to accidentally lean on the `d' key
> Lars> now.  Is there any point in responding to mail that more than 4
> Lars> months old?
> 
> You know, I wonder how many software package owners have similar
> problems (and what they do about it).

After my mother became ill, I accumulated anywhere between 600 and 750 mail
messages for Emacs/W3 that were of the 'must respond to' variety, some of
which were 18 months old before I finally had the time to respond to them.
Worst I have right now is one from may of 1999.

I try _very_ hard to respond to every message, even if it is long overdue.
I tend to do this like lars in the huge batches of email-queue-induced
hysteria. :)

> Is it worth the effort to respond when some of them are that old?  They
> have certainly either solved the problem, discussion, or simply dropped
> it without my help at this point...

Some have, some haven't.  I always play it safe and try to answer
everything.  I will usually fire off a quick 'im in email overload right
now, but you are #9622 in line, you will be serviced eventually'. :)

-bp

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Russ Allbery]

William M Perry <wmperry@aventail.com> writes:

> Some have, some haven't.  I always play it safe and try to answer
> everything.  I will usually fire off a quick 'im in email overload right
> now, but you are #9622 in line, you will be serviced eventually'. :)

Hm... speaking of this, is there a good way in Gnus to get the number of
ticked or unread articles in a specific newsgroup from anywhere inside
Gnus (not necessarily in that particular newsgroup)?  If there is, I could
write a quick little function to respond to a message with something like
"I've received your e-mail, and this is a semi-automated response.  Please
be patient... I have 253 pending mail messages to respond to, but I
promise I'll get to yours as soon as I can."

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)         <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Laura Conrad]

>>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:


    Russ> Hm... speaking of this, is there a good way in Gnus to get
    Russ> the number of ticked or unread articles in a specific
    Russ> newsgroup from anywhere inside Gnus (not necessarily in that
    Russ> particular newsgroup)?  If there is, I could write a quick
    Russ> little function to respond to a message with something like
    Russ> "I've received your e-mail, and this is a semi-automated
    Russ> response.  Please be patient... I have 253 pending mail
    Russ> messages to respond to, but I promise I'll get to yours as
    Russ> soon as I can."

For that application, does it matter if the count is correct?


-- 
Laura (mailto:lconrad@world.std.com , http://www.world.std.com/~lconrad/ )
(617) 661-8097	fax: (801) 365-6574 
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[William M. Perry]

Laura Conrad <lconrad@gamesville.com> writes:

> >>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
> 
> 
>     Russ> Hm... speaking of this, is there a good way in Gnus to get
>     Russ> the number of ticked or unread articles in a specific
>     Russ> newsgroup from anywhere inside Gnus (not necessarily in that
>     Russ> particular newsgroup)?  If there is, I could write a quick
>     Russ> little function to respond to a message with something like
>     Russ> "I've received your e-mail, and this is a semi-automated
>     Russ> response.  Please be patient... I have 253 pending mail
>     Russ> messages to respond to, but I promise I'll get to yours as
>     Russ> soon as I can."
> 
> For that application, does it matter if the count is correct?

(random 500)?

-bp

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Laura Conrad]

>>>>> "bp" == William M Perry <wmperry@aventail.com> writes:

    bp> Laura Conrad <lconrad@gamesville.com> writes:
    >> >>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
    >> 
    >> 
    Russ> Hm... speaking of this, is there a good way in Gnus to get
    Russ> the number of ticked or unread articles in a specific
    Russ> newsgroup from anywhere inside Gnus (not necessarily in that
    Russ> particular newsgroup)?  If there is, I could write a quick
    Russ> little function to respond to a message with something like
    Russ> "I've received your e-mail, and this is a semi-automated
    Russ> response.  Please be patient... I have 253 pending mail
    Russ> messages to respond to, but I promise I'll get to yours as
    Russ> soon as I can."
    >> 
    >> For that application, does it matter if the count is correct?

    bp> (random 500)?

(random 500) + 300

You don't want  "I have  3 pending mail messages to respond to..."

Or worse "I have 1 pending mail messages to respond to..."

-- 
Laura (mailto:lconrad@world.std.com , http://www.world.std.com/~lconrad/ )
(617) 661-8097	fax: (801) 365-6574 
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Russ Allbery]

Laura Conrad <lconrad@gamesville.com> writes:
>>>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:

>     Russ> Hm... speaking of this, is there a good way in Gnus to get the
>     Russ> number of ticked or unread articles in a specific newsgroup
>     Russ> from anywhere inside Gnus (not necessarily in that particular
>     Russ> newsgroup)?  If there is, I could write a quick little
>     Russ> function to respond to a message with something like "I've
>     Russ> received your e-mail, and this is a semi-automated response.
>     Russ> Please be patient... I have 253 pending mail messages to
>     Russ> respond to, but I promise I'll get to yours as soon as I can."

> For that application, does it matter if the count is correct?

Well, no, but it would be kind of cool.  :)

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)         <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Kai Großjohann]

Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:

> Hm... speaking of this, is there a good way in Gnus to get the number of
> ticked or unread articles in a specific newsgroup from anywhere inside
> Gnus (not necessarily in that particular newsgroup)?

Well, you want a GNUS function to get, for a GROUP, the number of
UNREAD messages.  Well?

\f

You were right: gnus-group-unread

kai
-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Russ Allbery]

Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

> Well, you want a GNUS function to get, for a GROUP, the number of UNREAD
> messages.  Well?

What about ticked?  :)  (The way I handle mail, unread isn't as useful,
although I realize I did mention it.)  I did poke around some for a
function to return the number of ticked articles, but quickly got out of
my depth in LISP.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)         <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Kai Großjohann]

Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:

> What about ticked?  :)

I think you need to look at up in gnus-newsrc-alist.  I couldn't find
a function for extracting this number off-hand, but I think
gnus-range-length might be useful, here.

kai
-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Henrik Holm]

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[Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann)]

>  kai
>  -- 
>  A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

I like your signature... is it yours originally?

Do you mind if I use it?

-- 
Henrik Holm, Research fellow    ---    Dept. of Telecommunications, NTNU
mailto:Henrik.Holm@tele.ntnu.no  -  http://www.tele.ntnu.no/users/henrik

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Henrik Holm]

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[Henrik Holm <henrikh@tele.ntnu.no>]

>  [Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann)]
>  
>  >  kai
>  >  -- 
>  >  A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.
>  
>  I like your signature... is it yours originally?
>  
>  Do you mind if I use it?

Ooops, sorry, this wasn't intended for the ding list.  Please disregard!

Frustrated:  How to cancel a message to a mailing list? :)

-- 
Henrik Holm, Research fellow    ---    Dept. of Telecommunications, NTNU
mailto:Henrik.Holm@tele.ntnu.no  -  http://www.tele.ntnu.no/users/henrik

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Simon Josefsson]

Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:

> > Well, you want a GNUS function to get, for a GROUP, the number of UNREAD
> > messages.  Well?
> 
> What about ticked?  :)

Try

(gnus-range-length (cdr (assq 'tick (gnus-info-marks (gnus-get-info group)))))

Also, gnus-group-line-format* contain similar calculations to display this
number to you (so it's not only sent to the people bugging you :-)).

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Per Abrahamsen]

wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:

> I try _very_ hard to respond to every message, even if it is long overdue.

Bad habit, that just encourage them to send more.

However, if you *have* to answer, at least try to be unhelpful.  "I
don't know, try asking on the mailing list."  "It works for me."  "I
agree, that is a bug."  "No, I can't think of a workaround that
doesn't involve hacking the Lisp code."

It works for me.

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

> > I try _very_ hard to respond to every message, even if it is long overdue.
> 
> Bad habit, that just encourage them to send more.
> 
> However, if you *have* to answer, at least try to be unhelpful.  "I
> don't know, try asking on the mailing list."  "It works for me."  "I
> agree, that is a bug."  "No, I can't think of a workaround that
> doesn't involve hacking the Lisp code."

*ROTFL*

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[wjhardaker]

>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:34:31 -0500, wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) said:

>> Is it worth the effort to respond when some of them are that old?
>> They have certainly either solved the problem, discussion, or
>> simply dropped it without my help at this point...

William> Some have, some haven't.  I always play it safe and try to
William> answer everything.  I will usually fire off a quick 'im in
William> email overload right now, but you are #9622 in line, you will
William> be serviced eventually'. :)

Yeah, and hence the reason I have so many messages in my mail
folders...  Those times when I was away.  Or busy.  Or writing code.

One other suggestion that hasn't been mentioned yet: create a mailing
list.  My snmp package has 2 important ones.  One for users, and one
for coders.  Then I deleted all references to my personal email
address out of the documentation and left only the reference to the
coders list, saying "write there with questions and someone will help
you".  The idea was that if more people wrote the mailing list they
would cross-help each other more.  It sort of worked.  The 209 people
on the coders list occasionally help the people that write in.  Ok,
about 5 of the 209 actually do.  But the good news is that they
answered about 25% of the messages, leaving me with less of a load.
That percentage has grown lately and is probably near 50%.  Actually,
giving write access to the CVS repository is what made the second jump 
in number.  Involve them more and they will help more!

But you're right, I think always answering is the polite way to go...

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[François Pinard]

wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu writes:

> Lars> Is there any point in responding to mail that more than 4 months old?

Hmph!  4 months is really nothing... :-) :-(

When I got `tar' maintenance (which I do not have anymore :-), `tar'
maintenance has already been put on hold for quite a long while.  I received
with it a huge backlog of accumulated problems, thousands of them.  I read in
all these reports a lot of frustration from users having had the impression
of writing into a black hole.  So, I made a point to reply to every message
while I was processing it, _however_ old it was.  Then, John Gilmore, the
original `tar' author, sent me his own collection of accumulated messages,
which was another big lot, and generally much older.  I merged everything.

I surely solved many thousands of messages, and just to keep the rope tight,
also received thousands of new messages.  Many single messages did require
a great deal of work.  `tar' is by far the most demanding package I ever
took care of, if you consider all the overhead it takes to do a proper job.
It was impossible for anyone-not-being-Lars to reply timely to everything.

Yet, when one installs a patch in 1998 for a problem first reported in 1989,
one feels strange while acknowledging the contribution to the submitter! :-)
Even then, my opinion is that we should never dismiss a user report, and
that even if some problems solve "themselves" over time, some just do not.

P.S. - My main hope is that `tar' is much more _maintainable_ now that it
originally was, the job should be more pleasurable to the new maintainer.

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[luis fernandes]

The oldest unresponded message I have in my inbox is Gnus-related
personal correspondence regarding the herd of gnus for the chapters
of the Gnus manual. I'm posting it here for the record, because I'm
going to delete it without answering (I'm sorry, Lars):

------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
  To: luis fernandes <elf@ee.ryerson.ca>
  Subject: Re: Dix gnus
  Date: 19 Apr 1997 15:38:12 +0200

  luis fernandes <elf@ee.ryerson.ca> writes:

  > These are all unique, hand-drawn, non-cloned (for the chapter head pages)...

  Great; I'll fix the manual to use this as a basis.

  Uhm...  could you possibly scan it at higher resolution?  The higher,
  the better.  

  -- 
  (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some weeks ago, someone wanted an explanation regarding the design of
the gnus logo. I believe I did post a "Secrets of the Gnus Logo
Revealed!" explanation to this list some time ago.

Also regading the logo I also wanted to share this apropos quote I
found in the New York Sunday Times Magazine (the one with Robin
Williams on the cover and the Times time capsule in the background
(hmmm....what would we put in the Gnus time capsule)):

	"Artists are people driven by a conflict between the desire to
	communicate and the even stronger desire to hide."
	--D. W. Winnicott

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[wjhardaker]

>>>>> On 02 Jan 2000 07:11:24 +0100, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said:

Lars> (200 messages from mail.misc responded to; 450 to go.  I wonder
Lars> whether I'm going to accidentally lean on the `d' key now.  Is there
Lars> any point in responding to mail that more than 4 months old?  I suck.)

On another point, I decided about a month ago that email is going to
be the downfall of modern society.  Basically, we now have the ability 
to communicate so easily now that we respond, they ask something else, 
we respond (meanwhile writing a 3rd party with a question), they ask
something else, the 3rd party responds, you respond to both of them
involving a 4th and 5th subject in the discussions, and it snowballs
from there.

Back in the good old days, when letters had to be carried by ship
in order to reach you this wasn't a problem and you got to spend all
of your time solving your own problems and producing things rather
than communicating with the people you're now reliant on and those
that rely on you.

However, when voice communications over the internet become better I
suspect things will improve, for as I see it half of the problem is
the lack of interactivity where someone can interrupt you as they
could in a normal conversation to make sure you are talking about what 
they truly want to know.

Warning: if you respond to this note, expect a corresponding loss of
true productivity in your day.
-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Amos Gouaux]

>>>>> On 03 Jan 2000 10:51:36 -0800,
>>>>> wjhardaker  <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> (w) writes:

w> However, when voice communications over the internet become better I
w> suspect things will improve....

Then there'll be voice mail.  

Hmm... what's that light flashing?  Why won't it stop?  

Amos

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[wjhardaker]

>>>>> On 03 Jan 2000 23:48:15 -0600, Amos Gouaux <amos+lists.ding@utdallas.edu> said:

w> However, when voice communications over the internet become better I
w> suspect things will improve....

Amos> Then there'll be voice mail.  

no, answering machines are equally as evil.  If I don't answer, call
back another time.

The answering machine is another example of a disjointed conversations 
that basically work like email.  You can't interrupt or interact.

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: A New Year's Resolution

[Matt Simmons]

>>>>> "Amos" == Amos Gouaux <amos+lists.ding@utdallas.edu> writes:

    Amos> Then there'll be voice mail.  

    Amos> Hmm... what's that light flashing?  Why won't it stop?  

Where am I going?

And why am I in a handbasket?

-- 
     Matt Simmons  -  simmonmt@acm.org  -  http://www.netcom.com/~simmonmt
      "Ain't nothin' in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and 
        dead armadillos." - Texas Agriculture Commissioner Jim Hightower