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* [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
@ 2019-09-17  9:54 Warren Toomey
  2019-09-17  9:58 ` SPC
                   ` (4 more replies)
  0 siblings, 5 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Warren Toomey @ 2019-09-17  9:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

I fear we're drifting a bit here and the S/N ratio is dropping a bit w.r.t
the actual history of Unix. Please no more on the relative merits of
version control systems or alternative text processing systems.

So I'll try to distract you by saying this. I'm sitting on two artifacts
that have recently been given to me:

 + by two large organisations
 + of great significance to Unix history
 + who want me to keep "mum" about them
 + as they are going to make announcements about them soon *

and I am going slowly crazy as I wait for them to be offically released.

Now you have a new topic to talk about :-)

Cheers, Warren

* for some definition of "soon"

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-17  9:54 [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts Warren Toomey
@ 2019-09-17  9:58 ` SPC
  2019-09-17 10:45 ` Angelo Papenhoff
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: SPC @ 2019-09-17  9:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warren Toomey; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Agreed. And of course you have completely caught my attention about this...
8-)

Cordiales saludos / Kind Regards.

Gracias | Regards - Saludos | Greetings | Freundliche Grüße | Salutations
-- 
*Sergio Pedraja*
-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sergiopedraja
-----


El mar., 17 sept. 2019 a las 11:55, Warren Toomey (<wkt@tuhs.org>) escribió:

> I fear we're drifting a bit here and the S/N ratio is dropping a bit w.r.t
> the actual history of Unix. Please no more on the relative merits of
> version control systems or alternative text processing systems.
>
> So I'll try to distract you by saying this. I'm sitting on two artifacts
> that have recently been given to me:
>
>  + by two large organisations
>  + of great significance to Unix history
>  + who want me to keep "mum" about them
>  + as they are going to make announcements about them soon *
>
> and I am going slowly crazy as I wait for them to be offically released.
>
> Now you have a new topic to talk about :-)
>
> Cheers, Warren
>
> * for some definition of "soon"
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-17  9:54 [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts Warren Toomey
  2019-09-17  9:58 ` SPC
@ 2019-09-17 10:45 ` Angelo Papenhoff
  2019-09-17 23:12 ` Dave Horsfall
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Angelo Papenhoff @ 2019-09-17 10:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On 17/09/19, Warren Toomey wrote:
> I fear we're drifting a bit here and the S/N ratio is dropping a bit w.r.t
> the actual history of Unix. Please no more on the relative merits of
> version control systems or alternative text processing systems.
> 
> So I'll try to distract you by saying this. I'm sitting on two artifacts
> that have recently been given to me:
> 
>  + by two large organisations
>  + of great significance to Unix history
>  + who want me to keep "mum" about them
>  + as they are going to make announcements about them soon *
> 
> and I am going slowly crazy as I wait for them to be offically released.
> 
> Now you have a new topic to talk about :-)

That sounds exciting!

I wish we had more stuff of the v0-v4 era, but I don't know how
likely that is to even still exist.
Also the things that were documented in the manual but weren't in the
distribution...old troff is something that comes to mind. We still have
the source filenames in deleted directory entries in the v6 distribution.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-17  9:54 [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts Warren Toomey
  2019-09-17  9:58 ` SPC
  2019-09-17 10:45 ` Angelo Papenhoff
@ 2019-09-17 23:12 ` Dave Horsfall
  2019-09-17 23:25   ` Arthur Krewat
  2019-09-18 16:33 ` Seth Morabito
  2019-09-18 23:05 ` Sergio Aguayo via TUHS
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2019-09-17 23:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Warren Toomey wrote:

[...]

> Now you have a new topic to talk about :-)

The infamous plaster cast of certain genitals (if it actually existed; the 
cast I mean)?

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-17 23:12 ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2019-09-17 23:25   ` Arthur Krewat
  2019-09-18  0:47     ` Adam Thornton
  2019-09-18  9:06     ` Wesley Parish
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Krewat @ 2019-09-17 23:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

My wish list is:

- Oracle (or some other licensee) coughed up SunOS. Legally.
- AT&T or some other derivative coughed up SVR4(.2)

Ok, that's all I got ;)

But yes, I'm insane enough to want: Oracle coughing up Solaris 11.x(4?) 
- legally. And I don't mean OpenSolaris.

BTW - I know a certain institution I know, I'm pretty sure used V6 for a 
graphics workstation. I'm pretty sure they had a source license, but I 
could be wrong. What's the reality when it came to V6 being used 
commercially in a product? This would be around the early 80's 
timeframe. And certain law enforcement agencies actually used at least 
one workstation for whatever reason.  It would have run on MIcro-11's, 
and MIcro-Vaxen.


On 9/17/2019 7:12 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Now you have a new topic to talk about :-)
>
> The infamous plaster cast of certain genitals (if it actually existed; 
> the cast I mean)?
>
> -- Dave
>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-17 23:25   ` Arthur Krewat
@ 2019-09-18  0:47     ` Adam Thornton
  2019-09-18  0:54       ` Arthur Krewat
  2019-09-18  9:06     ` Wesley Parish
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thornton @ 2019-09-18  0:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

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We at Sine Nomine Associates read the entrails wrong.

We did a port of OpenSolaris to the zSeries architecture (although we
required z/VM; much like Linux, there's no point running it otherwise).  By
"we" I mean mostly Neale Ferguson for the heavy lifting and me for most of
the userland apps and toolchain stuff (although I did write most of the
disk device driver, which went through z/VM DIAGs rather than talking
directly to the hardware, but from the OpenSolaris perspective it was just
a device driver).

Both we and IBM thought IBM was going to buy Sun.  I'm sure that's why IBM
agreed to give us a couple extra DIAGs in z/VM to make the thing run a good
deal more efficiently.

And then IBM pushed too hard on price, apparently not knowing Sun was also
sitting on an offer from Larry Ellison.

My career would have been very different if that acquisition had happened.

Adam

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:25 PM Arthur Krewat <krewat@kilonet.net> wrote:

> My wish list is:
>
> - Oracle (or some other licensee) coughed up SunOS. Legally.
> - AT&T or some other derivative coughed up SVR4(.2)
>
> Ok, that's all I got ;)
>
> But yes, I'm insane enough to want: Oracle coughing up Solaris 11.x(4?)
> - legally. And I don't mean OpenSolaris.
>
> BTW - I know a certain institution I know, I'm pretty sure used V6 for a
> graphics workstation. I'm pretty sure they had a source license, but I
> could be wrong. What's the reality when it came to V6 being used
> commercially in a product? This would be around the early 80's
> timeframe. And certain law enforcement agencies actually used at least
> one workstation for whatever reason.  It would have run on MIcro-11's,
> and MIcro-Vaxen.
>
>
> On 9/17/2019 7:12 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Warren Toomey wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> Now you have a new topic to talk about :-)
> >
> > The infamous plaster cast of certain genitals (if it actually existed;
> > the cast I mean)?
> >
> > -- Dave
> >
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-18  0:47     ` Adam Thornton
@ 2019-09-18  0:54       ` Arthur Krewat
  2019-09-18  1:03         ` Adam Thornton
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Krewat @ 2019-09-18  0:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On 9/17/2019 8:47 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>
> And then IBM pushed too hard on price, apparently not knowing Sun was 
> also sitting on an offer from Larry Ellison.
>
> My career would have been very different if that acquisition had happened.

Another factoid added to the gestalt in my head.


art k.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-18  0:54       ` Arthur Krewat
@ 2019-09-18  1:03         ` Adam Thornton
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thornton @ 2019-09-18  1:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 865 bytes --]

Well, take it with a grain of salt.  I have no actual knowledge of what IBM
was attempting or what really happened.  But from where I sat the evidence
was pretty compelling: they wanted an OpenSolaris port enough to give us
some hypervisor changes we asked for (which certainly must have had
substantial engineering costs for them), and it was pretty clear to me at
the time that Sun was looking for a buyer and that IBM would be a natural
entity to buy them.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 5:54 PM Arthur Krewat <krewat@kilonet.net> wrote:

> On 9/17/2019 8:47 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> >
> > And then IBM pushed too hard on price, apparently not knowing Sun was
> > also sitting on an offer from Larry Ellison.
> >
> > My career would have been very different if that acquisition had
> happened.
>
> Another factoid added to the gestalt in my head.
>
>
> art k.
>
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-17 23:25   ` Arthur Krewat
  2019-09-18  0:47     ` Adam Thornton
@ 2019-09-18  9:06     ` Wesley Parish
  2019-09-18 14:40       ` Larry McVoy
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Wesley Parish @ 2019-09-18  9:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

These are parts of my wish list:

Larry McVoy's Sourceware tape is discovered;
IBM donates the source and binaries for its obsolete Unixes;
HP donates the source and binaries of the Intel port of Unixware;
some of the late eighties/early nineties Unix CAD software gets donated.

Dreams are free, of course. I'm not holding my breath ... :)

Wesley Parish

On 9/18/19, Arthur Krewat <krewat@kilonet.net> wrote:
> My wish list is:
>
> - Oracle (or some other licensee) coughed up SunOS. Legally.
> - AT&T or some other derivative coughed up SVR4(.2)
>
> Ok, that's all I got ;)
>
> But yes, I'm insane enough to want: Oracle coughing up Solaris 11.x(4?)
> - legally. And I don't mean OpenSolaris.
>
> BTW - I know a certain institution I know, I'm pretty sure used V6 for a
> graphics workstation. I'm pretty sure they had a source license, but I
> could be wrong. What's the reality when it came to V6 being used
> commercially in a product? This would be around the early 80's
> timeframe. And certain law enforcement agencies actually used at least
> one workstation for whatever reason.  It would have run on MIcro-11's,
> and MIcro-Vaxen.
>
>
> On 9/17/2019 7:12 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Warren Toomey wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Now you have a new topic to talk about :-)
>>
>> The infamous plaster cast of certain genitals (if it actually existed;
>> the cast I mean)?
>>
>> -- Dave
>>
>
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-18  9:06     ` Wesley Parish
@ 2019-09-18 14:40       ` Larry McVoy
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Larry McVoy @ 2019-09-18 14:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Wesley Parish; +Cc: tuhs

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 09:06:54PM +1200, Wesley Parish wrote:
> These are parts of my wish list:
> 
> Larry McVoy's Sourceware tape is discovered;

That's unlikely to happen, I didn't keep a copy when it became clear
that Sun wasn't going to do it.  It would not be that hard to recreate
it if SunOS 4.x were released.  As I recall, it was

A) Remove the STREAMS stuff.
B) Go find the BSD tty driver and put it back.
C) Remove RFS.
D) Maybe a syscall or two that were there for RFS.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-17  9:54 [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts Warren Toomey
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-17 23:12 ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2019-09-18 16:33 ` Seth Morabito
  2019-09-18 21:17   ` A. P. Garcia
  2019-09-18 23:05 ` Sergio Aguayo via TUHS
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Seth Morabito @ 2019-09-18 16:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs



On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, at 2:54 AM, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> and I am going slowly crazy as I wait for them to be offically released.
>

And you just had to share the pain, eh? :^)

I look forward to the announcements with bated breath! I do secretly hope one is related to System V, since I've been working with SVR2/3/4 in such a grey area for so long, but I will be glad to see them no matter what they are.

-Seth
-- 
  Seth Morabito
  Poulsbo, WA
  web@loomcom.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-18 16:33 ` Seth Morabito
@ 2019-09-18 21:17   ` A. P. Garcia
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: A. P. Garcia @ 2019-09-18 21:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Seth Morabito; +Cc: The Unix Heritage Society

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 12:41 PM Seth Morabito <web@loomcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, at 2:54 AM, Warren Toomey wrote:
> >
> > and I am going slowly crazy as I wait for them to be offically released.
> >
>
> And you just had to share the pain, eh? :^)
>
> I look forward to the announcements with bated breath! I do secretly hope one is related to System V, since I've been working with SVR2/3/4 in such a grey area for so long, but I will be glad to see them no matter what they are.
>
> -Seth
> --
>   Seth Morabito
>   Poulsbo, WA
>   web@loomcom.com

It's not what I was expecting, and probably not what Warren was
referring to, but Microsoft open sourced their C++ Standard Library. I
would say that's nontrivial, at least.

https://github.com/microsoft/STL

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-17  9:54 [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts Warren Toomey
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-18 16:33 ` Seth Morabito
@ 2019-09-18 23:05 ` Sergio Aguayo via TUHS
  2019-09-18 23:25   ` Warren Toomey
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Sergio Aguayo via TUHS @ 2019-09-18 23:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 865 bytes --]

May I ask about the definition of "soon"? 


From: "Warren Toomey" <wkt@tuhs.org> 
To: tuhs@tuhs.org 
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 4:54:35 AM 
Subject: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts 

I fear we're drifting a bit here and the S/N ratio is dropping a bit w.r.t 
the actual history of Unix. Please no more on the relative merits of 
version control systems or alternative text processing systems. 

So I'll try to distract you by saying this. I'm sitting on two artifacts 
that have recently been given to me: 

+ by two large organisations 
+ of great significance to Unix history 
+ who want me to keep "mum" about them 
+ as they are going to make announcements about them soon * 

and I am going slowly crazy as I wait for them to be offically released. 

Now you have a new topic to talk about :-) 

Cheers, Warren 

* for some definition of "soon" 

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1250 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-18 23:05 ` Sergio Aguayo via TUHS
@ 2019-09-18 23:25   ` Warren Toomey
  2019-09-19  0:42     ` Nigel Williams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Warren Toomey @ 2019-09-18 23:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 01:05:32AM +0200, Sergio Aguayo via TUHS wrote:
>    May I ask about the definition of "soon"?

Yes, I asked that question too :-)

The answer is to coincide with the Unix 50th anniversary
events that are scheduled for this year.

	Warren

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-18 23:25   ` Warren Toomey
@ 2019-09-19  0:42     ` Nigel Williams
  2019-09-19  1:35       ` Gregg Levine
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nigel Williams @ 2019-09-19  0:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Unix Heritage Society

IBM open-sourcing AIX?
Apple releases A/UX source?

Personally I would like PRIMIX (UNIX overlay for PRIMOS) to be found,
but I appreciate that is the narrowest of niches :-)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-19  0:42     ` Nigel Williams
@ 2019-09-19  1:35       ` Gregg Levine
  2019-09-19  5:06         ` Lars Brinkhoff
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Gregg Levine @ 2019-09-19  1:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Unix Heritage Society

Hello!
I'll add to that. The entire set of XENIX stuff. And a release of the
SunOs stuff.,

But let us be patient. Warren will advise us when the time comes.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:43 PM Nigel Williams
<nw@retrocomputingtasmania.com> wrote:
>
> IBM open-sourcing AIX?
> Apple releases A/UX source?
>
> Personally I would like PRIMIX (UNIX overlay for PRIMOS) to be found,
> but I appreciate that is the narrowest of niches :-)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts
  2019-09-19  1:35       ` Gregg Levine
@ 2019-09-19  5:06         ` Lars Brinkhoff
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2019-09-19  5:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Gregg Levine; +Cc: The Unix Heritage Society

Is this the place to send Christmas wish lists?
I would like to see Space Travel.  There's a PDP-7 ready to do.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2019-09-19  5:06 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2019-09-17  9:54 [TUHS] A Couple of New Unix Artifacts Warren Toomey
2019-09-17  9:58 ` SPC
2019-09-17 10:45 ` Angelo Papenhoff
2019-09-17 23:12 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-17 23:25   ` Arthur Krewat
2019-09-18  0:47     ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-18  0:54       ` Arthur Krewat
2019-09-18  1:03         ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-18  9:06     ` Wesley Parish
2019-09-18 14:40       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-18 16:33 ` Seth Morabito
2019-09-18 21:17   ` A. P. Garcia
2019-09-18 23:05 ` Sergio Aguayo via TUHS
2019-09-18 23:25   ` Warren Toomey
2019-09-19  0:42     ` Nigel Williams
2019-09-19  1:35       ` Gregg Levine
2019-09-19  5:06         ` Lars Brinkhoff

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