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From: paul.winalski@gmail.com (Paul Winalski)
Subject: [TUHS] /dev/drum
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:29:41 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CABH=_VQ6HvtFAmNEa5XtqOAFmXjMvjOruPcd18D8ORFzPs3P_g@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <24637D2D-4865-4E45-821B-529CAEEA5589@ronnatalie.com>

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On 4/25/18, Ronald Natalie <ron at ronnatalie.com> wrote:
>
> Early pages were 1K.

On the VAX, pages were 512 bytes, the same size as a disk record.

> The fun argument is what is Virtual Memory.    Typically, people align that
> with paging but you can stretch the definition to cover paging.
> This was a point of contention in the early VAX Unix days as the ATT (System
> III, even V?) didn’t support paging on the VAX where as BSD did.

In my book, virtual memory is any addressing scheme where the
addresses that the program uses are different from the physical memory
addresses.  Nowadays most OSes use a scheme where each process has its
own virtual address space, and virtual memory is demand-paged from
backing store on disk.  But there have been other schemes.

Some PDP-11 models had a virtual addressing feature called PLAS
(Program Logical Address Space).  The PDP-11 had 16-bit addressing,
allowing for at most 64K per process.  To take advantage of physical
memory larger than 64K, PLAS allowed multiple 64K virtual address
spaces to be mapped to the larger physical memory.  Sort of the
reverse of the usual virtual addressing scheme, where there is more
virtual memory than physical memory.

IBM Disk Operating System for the System/370 (DOS/VS) had a single
virtual address space that could be bigger than physical memory and
was demand-paged.  This address space could be divided into up to five
partitions, each of which could run a program.  Each partition thus
represents what we now call a process.  IBM OS/VS1 and OS/VS2 SVS also
had a single virtual address space shared by all tasks (processes).
OS/VS2 MVS had the modern concept of a separate virtual address space
for each process.

> Our comment was that “It ain’t VIRTUAL memory if it isn’t all there” as
> opposed to virtual addressing.

Gene Amdahl was not a fan of paging.  He said that virtual memory
merely magnifies the need for real memory.

-Paul W.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-04-25 20:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 117+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-04-20 15:02 Tim Bradshaw
2018-04-20 15:58 ` Clem Cole
2018-04-20 16:00 ` David Collantes
2018-04-20 16:12   ` Dan Cross
2018-04-20 16:21     ` Clem Cole
2018-04-20 16:33     ` Warner Losh
2018-04-20 19:17       ` Ron Natalie
2018-04-20 20:23         ` Clem Cole
2018-04-20 22:10         ` Dave Horsfall
2018-04-22 17:01     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-04-22 17:37       ` Clem Cole
2018-04-22 19:14         ` Bakul Shah
2018-04-22 20:58         ` Mutiny
2018-04-22 22:37           ` Clem cole
2018-04-22 21:51         ` Dave Horsfall
2018-04-25  1:27           ` Dan Stromberg
2018-04-25 12:18             ` Ronald Natalie
2018-04-25 13:39               ` Tim Bradshaw
2018-04-25 14:02                 ` arnold
2018-04-25 14:59                   ` tfb
2018-04-25 14:33               ` Ian Zimmerman
2018-04-25 14:46                 ` Larry McVoy
2018-04-25 15:03                   ` ron minnich
2018-04-25 20:29               ` Paul Winalski [this message]
2018-04-25 20:45                 ` Larry McVoy
2018-04-25 21:14                   ` Lawrence Stewart
2018-04-25 21:30                     ` ron minnich
2018-04-25 23:01                 ` Bakul Shah
2018-04-23 16:42         ` Tim Bradshaw
2018-04-23 17:30           ` Ron Natalie
2018-04-23 17:51             ` Clem Cole
2018-04-23 18:30               ` Ron Natalie
2018-04-25 14:02                 ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
2018-04-25 14:38                   ` Clem Cole
2018-04-23 20:47               ` Grant Taylor
2018-04-23 21:06                 ` Clem Cole
2018-04-23 21:14                   ` Dan Mick
2018-04-23 21:27                     ` Clem Cole
2018-04-24  3:28                       ` [TUHS] 3330s, 3340s, Winchesters... (was: /dev/drum) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2018-04-24 11:43                         ` Paul Winalski
2018-04-24 13:13                           ` Clem Cole
2018-04-25  0:52                             ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2018-04-25 20:54                               ` Paul Winalski
2018-04-23 22:07                 ` [TUHS] /dev/drum Tim Bradshaw
2018-04-23 22:15                   ` Warner Losh
2018-04-23 23:30                     ` Grant Taylor
2018-04-24  9:37                       ` Michael Kjörling
2018-04-24  9:57                         ` Dave Horsfall
2018-04-24 13:01                           ` Nemo
2018-04-24 13:03                         ` Arthur Krewat
2018-04-25  1:31                       ` [TUHS] Disk data layout (was: /dev/drum) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2018-04-25  6:43                         ` Hellwig Geisse
2018-04-25 21:17                         ` Paul Winalski
2018-04-25 21:55                           ` Bakul Shah
2018-04-27 15:47                           ` Dave Horsfall
2018-04-27 18:16                             ` Paul Winalski
2018-04-27 18:37                               ` Clem Cole
2018-04-23 23:45                   ` [TUHS] /dev/drum Arthur Krewat
2018-04-24  8:05                     ` tfb
2018-04-20 16:45 Noel Chiappa
2018-04-20 16:53 ` Charles Anthony
2018-04-20 17:16 ` William Pechter
2018-04-20 23:35   ` Dave Horsfall
2018-04-22 11:48     ` Steve Simon
2018-04-22 18:06 Norman Wilson
2018-04-23 18:41 Noel Chiappa
2018-04-23 19:09 ` Clem Cole
2018-04-23 23:01 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-04-23 23:49   ` Dave Horsfall
2018-04-24  0:26   ` Ronald Natalie
2018-04-23 22:01 Noel Chiappa
2018-04-23 22:09 ` Warner Losh
     [not found] <mailman.125.1524526228.3788.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2018-04-23 23:44 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-23 23:57   ` Steve Nickolas
2018-04-24  0:24   ` Ronald Natalie
2018-04-24  0:25   ` Warren Toomey
2018-04-24  0:31     ` Dave Horsfall
2018-04-24  1:02   ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2018-04-24  4:32   ` Grant Taylor
2018-04-24  4:49     ` Bakul Shah
2018-04-24  4:59       ` Warner Losh
2018-04-24  6:22         ` Bakul Shah
2018-04-24 14:57           ` Warner Losh
2018-04-24  6:46   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-04-24  7:10 Rudi Blom
     [not found] <mailman.137.1524667148.3788.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2018-04-25 21:43 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-25 22:24 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-26  5:51   ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
2018-04-25 22:37 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-25 22:46 Noel Chiappa
     [not found] <mailman.139.1524690859.3788.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2018-04-25 22:54 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-25 22:55 Noel Chiappa
     [not found] <mailman.143.1524696952.3788.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2018-04-25 23:08 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-26  1:53 Noel Chiappa
     [not found] <mailman.1.1524708001.6296.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2018-04-27 22:41 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-27 23:01 Noel Chiappa
2018-04-27 23:10 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-27 23:39   ` Warner Losh
2018-04-28  0:19 Noel Chiappa
2018-04-28 10:41 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-28 12:19   ` Rico Pajarola
2018-04-28 20:40 Noel Chiappa
2018-04-29 15:37 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-04-29 16:34   ` Steve Nickolas
2018-04-29 16:48     ` Warner Losh
2018-04-30 15:05 Noel Chiappa
2018-04-30 16:43 ` Paul Winalski
2018-04-30 21:41 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-05-03  2:54 ` Charles Anthony
2018-05-03 11:39 Noel Chiappa
2018-05-03 21:22 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-05-05 13:06 Noel Chiappa
2018-05-05 20:53 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-05-06 13:07 Noel Chiappa
2018-05-06 15:57 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-05-07 15:36 Noel Chiappa
     [not found] <mailman.1.1525744802.16322.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2018-05-08 22:39 ` Johnny Billquist

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