From: Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com>
To: "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] *roff history as told to GNU
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:01:40 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAEoi9W6oo0UMjNf6P2FJ9h5wxRPgbgAzygj5SMoGO-UV+Zv2Bg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20220112180619.mxzojchd62vpwm2f@localhost.localdomain>
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On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:07 PM G. Branden Robinson <
g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Dan,
>
> At 2022-01-12T11:33:35-0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> > I have some questions about the earlier history.
>
> I've been collecting a detailed narrative history not just of the *roff
> _programs_ but also of the development on the language in the roff(7)
> manual page. Below I'll share a current chunk of it that is planned for
> the next release (groff 1.23). It has been heavily revised since
> groff 1.22.4. Many of my revisions have been motivated by accounts from
> this list, from the "history of man pages" (more of a history of troff)
> at manpages.bsd.lv, and the minnie TUHS archive.
>
Very interesting. The email mentioning DSR from Dan Halbert linked to a
wikipedia article that in turn links here:
https://manpages.bsd.lv/history/saltzer_23_10_2011.txt
This is an email from Jerry Saltzer that refers to a port of the _CTSS_
BCPL ROFF sources purportedly written by Doug. I wonder if that was
actually a thing, or an error?
> As I understand it, in the beginning there was RUNOFF, which I believe
> > originated on CTSS? The CTSS sources contain a RUNOFF program that's
> > made up of ~1100 lines of MAD and ~1300 lines of assembler.
>
> This is a detail I hadn't encountered before; instead I've read claims
> that distorted it into being a solely high-level language project.
>
Fortunately, the source is online:
https://github.com/rcornwell/ctss/tree/master/src/runoff
The `.fap` files are assembly; for example
https://github.com/rcornwell/ctss/blob/master/src/runoff/lmio12.fap
Brief inspection shows the FAP code mostly dealing with very low-level
details either interfacing with the system for IO/memory or character
handling. Without further examination, I'd be willing to believe the bulk
of the program's logic is in MAD.
> There is certainly a RUNOFF in Multics, written in BCPL (there's a
> > small "outer module transfer vector" program in ALM).
>
> As I understand it, _this_ RUNOFF is undisputedly Doug McIlroy's.
>
Indeed; one finds the following in at least one of the Multics RUNOFF
source files:
From
https://github.com/dancrossnyc/multics/blob/main/library_dir_dir/system_library_standard/source/bound_runoff_.s.archive/runoff_mr1.bcpl
:
// Roff for MULTICS
//
// The first ROFF for Multics was written in March, 1969, by
// Doug McIlroy of Bell Labs. Art Evans made extensive
// modifications to it in May and June, 1969, adding many
// comments and making various changes.
// Footnoting added by Dennis Capps in 1970.
// Maintained by Harwell Thrasher in 1971.
// Many new features added and bugs fixed by R Mabee in 1971-1972.
// RUNOFF and BCPL were brought over to the 6180 Multics (from 645) in May
of 1973 by R F Mabee.
The copyright statements on all of the runoff source files seem to be dated
1974 (I haven't looked at every one).
> [snip]
> Here's what I have, though it looks better typeset[2]. Corrections from
> witnesses are warmly welcomed. [snip]
>
Thank you; that was very interesting.
- Dan C.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-01-12 20:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-12-31 15:47 [TUHS] roff(7) Douglas McIlroy
2021-12-31 23:07 ` George Michaelson
2021-12-31 23:40 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-01 0:56 ` [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-01 3:15 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-10 19:00 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-10 20:21 ` Jon Forrest
2022-01-11 22:48 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-11 23:18 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 1:19 ` Dave Horsfall
2022-01-12 1:46 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:12 ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-12 15:49 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 16:22 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 0:06 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-12 1:48 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 0:29 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-12 1:53 ` Blake McBride
[not found] ` <E3CC4B8A-4E88-4339-A4D3-4ED26BA80620@gmail.com>
2022-01-12 0:44 ` Jon Forrest
2022-01-12 2:00 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:10 ` David Arnold
2022-01-12 2:26 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 19:54 ` John Cowan
2022-01-13 10:13 ` Thomas Paulsen
2022-01-13 20:00 ` John Cowan
2022-01-10 20:33 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-10 20:37 ` Richard Salz
2022-01-10 21:04 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-10 21:48 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-11 2:25 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-11 2:47 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-22 2:34 ` [TUHS] troff environments, traps, and diversions (was: TeX and groff) Branden Robinson
2022-01-22 16:02 ` Douglas McIlroy
2022-01-23 19:45 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-23 22:26 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 1:52 ` [TUHS] Recognizing TeX (was: TeX and groff (was: roff(7))) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 1:19 ` [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Mary Ann Horton
2022-01-12 2:03 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:10 ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-12 3:44 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 16:48 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-01-10 20:46 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-01-11 1:59 ` [TUHS] Demise of " Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-11 2:13 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-11 2:42 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 5:12 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-11 5:59 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-11 8:57 ` arnold
2022-01-11 20:15 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:22 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 20:26 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:36 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 20:41 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:49 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 21:03 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 8:50 ` arnold
2022-01-11 14:00 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 23:22 ` [TUHS] troff or groff? (was: Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7))) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 23:29 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 23:32 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 15:47 ` [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Clem Cole
2022-01-11 16:55 ` Richard Salz
2022-01-11 18:49 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 19:20 ` John Cowan
2022-01-11 20:06 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 23:57 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-12 0:03 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-12 8:54 ` arnold
2022-01-12 15:17 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 16:33 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 18:06 ` [TUHS] *roff history as told to GNU G. Branden Robinson
2022-01-12 18:34 ` Dan Halbert
2022-01-12 22:48 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 23:27 ` Charles H. Sauer
2022-01-13 0:35 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 20:01 ` Dan Cross [this message]
2022-01-12 22:32 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-13 2:38 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-13 7:42 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2022-01-13 13:47 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-12 8:48 ` [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) arnold
2022-01-12 15:51 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 15:57 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 15:56 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 3:22 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 0:32 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-01 20:00 ` [TUHS] roff(7) [ and other related stuff ] Jon Steinhart
2022-01-02 0:12 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 1:04 ` John Cowan
2022-01-02 1:20 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 1:47 ` Steve Nickolas
2022-01-02 2:12 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 3:56 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-02 1:48 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-02 3:04 ` John Cowan
2022-01-02 3:30 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-01 1:11 ` [TUHS] roff(7) Phil Budne
2022-01-01 1:17 ` Chris Torek
2022-01-01 3:06 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-01 3:34 ` George Michaelson
2022-01-05 21:15 ` Tony Finch
2022-01-12 20:48 [TUHS] *roff history as told to GNU Noel Chiappa
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