From: "Charles H. Sauer" <sauer@technologists.com>
To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] *roff history as told to GNU
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:27:15 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87382868-fabd-afdb-0d29-ec6d05bc4ada@technologists.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC20D2OCWXVdtg7fFwT5oLwt-=J0cSU0YFy6qvWHKFEV4wMGag@mail.gmail.com>
I try to avoid inserting non-Unix IBM stuff into TUHS, but since Clem
opened the door, ...
When I was at Yorktown 1975-77 and 1979-82, using Script (IBM's runoff)
on VM/370 was very pleasant from my perspective, for papers, manuals and
my three performance modeling books. IIRC when I got there Script output
went to Versatecs for draft output and to APS5 for camera ready. By
1979, DCF superseded Script and 6670s superseded Versatecs for draft
output. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCRIPT_(markup) and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Generalized_Markup_Language seem fair
to me.
While I'm inserting non-Unix stuff, and presuming some parallel between
Yorktown and Murray Hill, the culture discussions make me point out that
I intentionally avoided ties and suits my first couple of years, wearing
a turtleneck for my initial interviews. Then my wife insisted I start
wearing three piece wool suits, which were fine in the cold months
requiring driving, but I avoided them when the weather was warm enough
for me to cycle the five miles to the lab
(https://technologists.com/songs/swans.html).
CHS
On 1/12/2022 4:48 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
> Dan/Branden -- don't forget that IBM had a flavor of the runoff family
> also at least by the early 1970s when I saw it. In fact, I learned it
> before either the DEC ones for the PDP-10s which I saw next, and only
> after that the UNIX family. We ran the IBM doc tool on TSS [often of
> 2741 style devices], and I think it ran on MTS. Pre-laser printer days,
> although CS an XGP, it was only 200 dpi (and was on the PDP-10s). So
> CMU computer center (IBM shop) even had a very high end printer with a
> golf ball (serial) output device that was in a locked room that was
> connected the 360 that they used to print 'special' letters on a fan
> folded paper that was super high quality and then run through the
> 'burster' to remove the edges and make it single sheets [Acceptance
> letters and other special things got printed on it by the computer
> center for the administration]. I don't remember much about that part
> of the process, other than the input/prep was from the IBM version of a
> runoff like program and as an operator, we had to learn to make it go
> and run things out on it as needed. But I do remember it was a PITA to
> output to that thing, but the SW also worked on a traditional 2741. As
> a member of the computer staff I had access to the 2741 in my office
> (for APL work), but could set it up as a standard 2741 and type papers
> on it late at night.
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:42 PM Dan Halbert <halbert@halwitz.org
> <mailto:halbert@halwitz.org>> wrote:
>
> On 1/12/22 13:06, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > Hi, Dan,
> >
> > At 2022-01-12T11:33:35-0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> >> I have some questions about the earlier history.
> >>
> >> I've been collecting a detailed narrative history not just of
> the *roff
> >> _programs_ but also of the development on the language in the
> roff(7)
> >> manual page. Below I'll share a current chunk of it that is
> planned for
> >> the next release (groff 1.23). It has been heavily revised since
> >> groff 1.22.4. Many of my revisions have been motivated by
> accounts from
> >> this list, from the "history of man pages" (more of a history of
> troff)
> >> at manpages.bsd.lv <http://manpages.bsd.lv>, and the minnie TUHS
> archive.
>
> I used RUNOFF on TOPS-10 in 1971, I think, and eventually also on TENEX
> and TOPS-20. It probably was available earlier than that. Your history
> is covering the Unix side, but there is also a pretty robust DEC side.
> It was available on pretty much all the DEC machines.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TYPSET_and_RUNOFF
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TYPSET_and_RUNOFF> has some mentions.
>
> Dan H.
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-01-12 23:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-12-31 15:47 [TUHS] roff(7) Douglas McIlroy
2021-12-31 23:07 ` George Michaelson
2021-12-31 23:40 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-01 0:56 ` [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-01 3:15 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-10 19:00 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-10 20:21 ` Jon Forrest
2022-01-11 22:48 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-11 23:18 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 1:19 ` Dave Horsfall
2022-01-12 1:46 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:12 ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-12 15:49 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 16:22 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 0:06 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-12 1:48 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 0:29 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-12 1:53 ` Blake McBride
[not found] ` <E3CC4B8A-4E88-4339-A4D3-4ED26BA80620@gmail.com>
2022-01-12 0:44 ` Jon Forrest
2022-01-12 2:00 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:10 ` David Arnold
2022-01-12 2:26 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 19:54 ` John Cowan
2022-01-13 10:13 ` Thomas Paulsen
2022-01-13 20:00 ` John Cowan
2022-01-10 20:33 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-10 20:37 ` Richard Salz
2022-01-10 21:04 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-10 21:48 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-11 2:25 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-11 2:47 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-22 2:34 ` [TUHS] troff environments, traps, and diversions (was: TeX and groff) Branden Robinson
2022-01-22 16:02 ` Douglas McIlroy
2022-01-23 19:45 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-23 22:26 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 1:52 ` [TUHS] Recognizing TeX (was: TeX and groff (was: roff(7))) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 1:19 ` [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Mary Ann Horton
2022-01-12 2:03 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:10 ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-12 3:44 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 16:48 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-01-10 20:46 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-01-11 1:59 ` [TUHS] Demise of " Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-11 2:13 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-11 2:42 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 5:12 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-11 5:59 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-11 8:57 ` arnold
2022-01-11 20:15 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:22 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 20:26 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:36 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 20:41 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:49 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 21:03 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 8:50 ` arnold
2022-01-11 14:00 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 23:22 ` [TUHS] troff or groff? (was: Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7))) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 23:29 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 23:32 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 15:47 ` [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Clem Cole
2022-01-11 16:55 ` Richard Salz
2022-01-11 18:49 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 19:20 ` John Cowan
2022-01-11 20:06 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 23:57 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-12 0:03 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-12 8:54 ` arnold
2022-01-12 15:17 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 16:33 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 18:06 ` [TUHS] *roff history as told to GNU G. Branden Robinson
2022-01-12 18:34 ` Dan Halbert
2022-01-12 22:48 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 23:27 ` Charles H. Sauer [this message]
2022-01-13 0:35 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 20:01 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 22:32 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-13 2:38 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-13 7:42 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2022-01-13 13:47 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-12 8:48 ` [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) arnold
2022-01-12 15:51 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 15:57 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 15:56 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 3:22 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 0:32 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-01 20:00 ` [TUHS] roff(7) [ and other related stuff ] Jon Steinhart
2022-01-02 0:12 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 1:04 ` John Cowan
2022-01-02 1:20 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 1:47 ` Steve Nickolas
2022-01-02 2:12 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 3:56 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-02 1:48 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-02 3:04 ` John Cowan
2022-01-02 3:30 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-01 1:11 ` [TUHS] roff(7) Phil Budne
2022-01-01 1:17 ` Chris Torek
2022-01-01 3:06 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-01 3:34 ` George Michaelson
2022-01-05 21:15 ` Tony Finch
2022-01-12 20:48 [TUHS] *roff history as told to GNU Noel Chiappa
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