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From: John Max Skaller <skaller@ozemail.com.au>
To: Alessandro Baretta <alex@baretta.com>
Cc: Ocaml <caml-list@inria.fr>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 03:49:01 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3D39A28D.4040801@ozemail.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3D386344.5080303@baretta.com>

Alessandro Baretta wrote:

>
>>    struct X { virtual bool binop(X const&)const=0; };
>
>
> Tell me if I got this straight: OO polymorphism requires that 
> inheriting classes wishing to override methods of parents must use 
> covariant return types and contravariant parameter types, so as to 
> guarantee that inheritance implies subtyping. In this case, it would 
> be meaning less to implement interface X because, applying the 
> contravariance principle to the formal parameter of binop, you'd end 
> up with a class whose binop will accept as rhs parameters any instance 
> of any subtype of X. Therefore a class Integer will have a 
> greater_than_binop accepting instances of class Rational, Real, 
> Complex, Quaternion ... This is meaningless, of course, so we conclude 
> that establishing an identity between inheritance and subtyping 
> relations is paradoxical. Correct? 


The problem is that for arbitrary implementations of the abstractionX,
you clearly cannot encode the primitive binop without knowing
the representation of 'this' and the argument. This is a precise
assertion compared to saying it is 'meaningless': often there
is a good meaning (sure you can add Rationals and quaternions .. :-)

Note that the assertion is not a theorem: it is an *assumption*.
So it cannot be questioned.

>
>
>> In commerical applications, almost ALL data is relational,
>> and so cannot be abstracted. The OO paradigm is not just
>> useless here, but downright destructive.
>
>
> Slow... What? I don't follow you here. 


A relational database is just an encoding of
functions like

    'a ~b'

by making a table of a and b columns.
But ~ is a binary operator.


-- 
John Max Skaller, mailto:skaller@ozemail.com.au
snail:10/1 Toxteth Rd, Glebe, NSW 2037, Australia.
voice:61-2-9660-0850




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  reply	other threads:[~2002-07-20 17:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 77+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20020716172916.4903.qmail@web10702.mail.yahoo.com>
2002-07-18 23:14 ` Oleg
2002-07-18 23:27   ` Brian Smith
2002-07-18 23:54   ` William Lovas
2002-07-19  3:59     ` Oleg
     [not found]       ` <20020719010318.B3631@boson.den.co.bbnow.net>
2002-07-19  8:22         ` Oleg
2002-07-19  8:57           ` Andreas Rossberg
2002-07-19 10:14             ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-19 18:15               ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-19 18:33                 ` Brian Smith
2002-07-20 17:30                   ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-19 19:06                 ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-20 17:49                   ` John Max Skaller [this message]
2002-07-19 10:34             ` Oleg
2002-07-19 17:25               ` Andreas Rossberg
2002-07-20 16:58                 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-19 16:35     ` Brian Rogoff
2002-10-16 23:24       ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-19  1:25   ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-19  4:04     ` Oleg
2002-07-19 15:46       ` [Caml-list] Rule based language [was: productivity improvement] Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-19 17:20         ` [Caml-list] compact.c Julie Farago
2002-10-15  9:31     ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Eray Ozkural
2002-10-15 12:34       ` Oleg
2002-10-15 15:08         ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-19  4:42   ` Emmanuel Renieris
2002-07-19  9:57     ` Oleg
2002-07-19 10:43       ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-19 10:52         ` Daniel de Rauglaudre
2002-07-19 11:36           ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-19 11:10       ` Xavier Leroy
2002-10-15  9:24         ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-15 18:47           ` Pal-Kristian Engstad
2002-10-17  0:12             ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-17  9:34               ` Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons
2002-10-17 15:55                 ` Jeffrey Palmer
2002-10-17 16:15                   ` brogoff
2002-10-17 18:21                   ` [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity improvement) Christophe TROESTLER
2002-10-17 18:32                     ` Chris Hecker
2002-10-17 19:08                       ` Shivkumar Chandrasekaran
2002-10-17 20:01                         ` Chris Hecker
2002-10-17 19:36                       ` Daniel de Rauglaudre
2002-10-17 19:59                       ` Brian Hurt
2002-10-17 20:22                         ` Chris Hecker
2002-10-17 21:19                           ` Brian Hurt
2002-10-17 21:37                             ` Jeffrey Palmer
2002-10-17 23:55                               ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-10-18  0:57                                 ` Jeffrey Palmer
2002-10-18  4:21                                   ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-10-18  8:23                                     ` Remi VANICAT
2002-10-18  8:46                                       ` Sven Luther
2002-10-18  1:47                               ` Brian Hurt
2002-10-17 23:03                             ` Chris Hecker
2002-10-18 23:55                               ` brogoff
2002-10-18 10:43                   ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons
2002-10-21  8:57                   ` Francois Pottier
     [not found] ` <200207200640.CAA11477@dewberry.cc.columbia.edu>
     [not found]   ` <3D391B41.50900@baretta.com>
     [not found]     ` <200207210059.UAA17003@dewberry.cc.columbia.edu>
2002-07-21 13:00       ` [Caml-list] Rule based language [was: productivity improvement] Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-23  9:53         ` Oleg
2002-07-24  8:07           ` Alessandro Baretta
     [not found] <200207092004.QAA09587@psi-phi.mit.edu>
2002-07-09 20:16 ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Oleg
2002-07-08 19:53 Oleg
2002-07-08 20:14 ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-10 15:50   ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-10 18:56     ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-10 19:09       ` Jun P.FURUSE
2002-07-11 23:43         ` Pierre Weis
2002-07-09 12:45 ` Basile STARYNKEVITCH
2002-07-09 18:20   ` Shannon --jj Behrens
2002-07-09 19:16     ` Oleg
2002-07-09 20:31       ` Shannon --jj Behrens
2002-07-10 10:02     ` sebastien FURIC
2002-07-10 11:58       ` Dave Mason
2002-07-10 13:11         ` sebastien FURIC
2002-07-10 19:22           ` nadji
2002-07-10 15:39 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-11  8:57   ` Nicolas barnier
2002-07-16  3:34   ` Oleg
2002-10-18  3:13     ` Eray Ozkural

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