threading display strange

threading display strange

[Uwe Brauer]

Hi

I just realised that the following is odd:


[]{ }   57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
[]{ }O  57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
[]{ }O  57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
[]{ } . 57604 [  Gestión d] oub@mat.uc  [COMUNICADO AUTOMÁTICO DE ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:13:27 +0200 (CEST) 5.0k 32   
[]{ }   57608 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [Re: [Amnu 19]            ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:31:33 +0200 11k ?   


Why is  57606 displayed before  57585? 

Thanks 

Re: threading display strange

[Tassilo Horn]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

Hi Uwe,

> I just realised that the following is odd:
>
> []{ } 57606 [ Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19]) ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019
> 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6
> []{ }O 57585 [ tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr
> 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165
> []{ }O 57593 [ users ] oub@mat.uc [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019
> 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11
> []{ } . 57604 [ Gestión d] oub@mat.uc [COMUNICADO AUTOMÁTICO DE ] Sun, 28 Apr
> 2019 11:13:27 +0200 (CEST) 5.0k 32
> []{ } 57608 [ Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer [Re: [Amnu 19] ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:31:33
> +0200 11k ?
>
> Why is  57606 displayed before  57585? 

Well, since you didn't tell us how you've configured sorting, I assume
you are using the defaults, and that would mean sorting by article
number.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
gnus-thread-sort-functions is a variable defined in ‘gnus-sum.el’.
Its value is
(...)
Original value was 
(gnus-thread-sort-by-number)

  This variable may be risky if used as a file-local variable.

Documentation:
List of functions used for sorting threads in the summary buffer.
By default, threads are sorted by article number.

Each function takes two threads and returns non-nil if the first
thread should be sorted before the other.  If you use more than one
function, the primary sort function should be the last.  You should
probably always include ‘gnus-thread-sort-by-number’ in the list of
sorting functions -- preferably first.  Also note that sorting by date
is often much slower than sorting by number, and the sorting order is
very similar.  (Sorting by date means sorting by the time the message
was sent, sorting by number means sorting by arrival time.)

...
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Especially, the last sentence might give a clue.  I think with NNTP
(usegroups) the article number really exists on the server, so it's
"time the message was received on that nntp server".  But with IMAP
(mail) the number is assigned by Gnus, and then it basically gives the
order in which you've downloaded the messages, and that's not really
chronological.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: threading display strange

[Uwe Brauer]

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>>> "TH" == Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
> Hi Uwe,

>> I just realised that the following is odd:
>> 
>> []{ } 57606 [ Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19]) ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019
>> 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6
>> []{ }O 57585 [ tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr
>> 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165
>> []{ }O 57593 [ users ] oub@mat.uc [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019
>> 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11
>> []{ } . 57604 [ Gestión d] oub@mat.uc [COMUNICADO AUTOMÁTICO DE ] Sun, 28 Apr
>> 2019 11:13:27 +0200 (CEST) 5.0k 32
>> []{ } 57608 [ Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer [Re: [Amnu 19] ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:31:33
>> +0200 11k ?
>> 
>> Why is  57606 displayed before  57585? 

> Well, since you didn't tell us how you've configured sorting, I assume
> you are using the defaults, and that would mean sorting by article
> number.

Sorry I posted my setting in a different message:

(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
      '(gnus-thread-sort-by-date
        gnus-thread-sort-by-number))

(setq gnus-sort-functions
      '(gnus-article-sort-by-date
        gnus-article-sort-by-number))



> gnus-thread-sort-functions is a variable defined in ‘gnus-sum.el’.
> Its value is
> (...)
> Original value was 
> (gnus-thread-sort-by-number)

>   This variable may be risky if used as a file-local variable.

> Documentation:
> List of functions used for sorting threads in the summary buffer.
> By default, threads are sorted by article number.

> Each function takes two threads and returns non-nil if the first
> thread should be sorted before the other.  If you use more than one
> function, the primary sort function should be the last.  You should
> probably always include ‘gnus-thread-sort-by-number’ in the list of
> sorting functions -- preferably first.  Also note that sorting by date
> is often much slower than sorting by number, and the sorting order is
> very similar.  (Sorting by date means sorting by the time the message
> was sent, sorting by number means sorting by arrival time.)

> ...

> Especially, the last sentence might give a clue.  I think with NNTP
> (usegroups) the article number really exists on the server, so it's
> "time the message was received on that nntp server".  But with IMAP
> (mail) the number is assigned by Gnus, and then it basically gives the
> order in which you've downloaded the messages, and that's not really
> chronological.

Following your advice to read the documentation more carefully, I tried
the following setting

(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
      '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
        gnus-thread-sort-by-date))

(setq gnus-sort-functions
      '(gnus-article-sort-by-number
        gnus-article-sort-by-date))


However it does not help the summary buffer looks still
,----
| 
| []{ }O  57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
| []{ }OA     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
| []{ }O  57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
| []{ }O  57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
| []{ }O  57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
| []{ }O  57604 [  Gestión d] oub@mat.uc  [COMUNICADO AUTOMÁTICO DE ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:13:27 +0200 (CEST) 5.0k 32   
| 
`----

So how could I achieve the following 

,----
| []{ }O  57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
| []{ }OA     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
| []{ }O  57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
| []{ }O  57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
| []{ }O  57604 [  Gestión d] oub@mat.uc  [COMUNICADO AUTOMÁTICO DE ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:13:27 +0200 (CEST) 5.0k 32   
| []{ }O  57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
`----

???

Because I have had sometimes difficult in finding message, but the
ordering I mentioned. So I had to toggle threading off to find them.

The setting I would like to obtain would spare me that trouble.

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Re: threading display strange

[Tassilo Horn]

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Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> Following your advice to read the documentation more carefully, I tried
> the following setting
>
> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
>       '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
>         gnus-thread-sort-by-date))
>
> (setq gnus-sort-functions
>       '(gnus-article-sort-by-number
>         gnus-article-sort-by-date))

I guess you want gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date and
gnus-article-sort-by-most-recent-date because gnus-thread-sort-by-date
sorts by the date of the root article.

Bye,
Tassilo

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Re: threading display strange

[Uwe Brauer]

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>>> "TH" == Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>> Following your advice to read the documentation more carefully, I tried
>> the following setting
>> 
>> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
>> '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
>> gnus-thread-sort-by-date))
>> 
>> (setq gnus-sort-functions
>> '(gnus-article-sort-by-number
>> gnus-article-sort-by-date))

> I guess you want gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date and
> gnus-article-sort-by-most-recent-date because gnus-thread-sort-by-date
> sorts by the date of the root article.

This is what I thought, but then the summary buffer displays the most
recent dates first and the beginning of the buffer, which is not what I
want as in 

@ Start of buffer

[]{ } . 57663 [  Santiago ] <oub@mat.u  [Incidencia 792801. CAMPUS] Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:43:14 +0200 30k 19   
[]{ } . 57661 [  idm@ucm.e] oub@ucm.es  [Nueva normativa de regist] Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:10:58 +0200 5.0k 25   
[]{ } . 57660 [ +Rebeca So] Uwe Brauer  [Re: anova                ] Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:08:57 +0200 4.9k 2   
[]{ }O  57654 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Mon, 29 Apr 2019 00:00:29 +0200 7.5k 59   


So this is not what I want:
I want the most recent message at the end of the buffer not at the
beginning but I want 


,----
[+]
| []{ }O  57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
| []{ }OA     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
| []{ }O  57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
| []{ }O  57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
| []{ }O  57604 [  Gestión d] oub@mat.uc  [COMUNICADO AUTOMÁTICO DE ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:13:27 +0200 (CEST) 5.0k 32   
| []{ }O  57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
`----




Strangely enough this ordering  ordering is done by thunderbird/seamonkey
without a problem, only gnus behaves odd here.

Is this a bug?

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Re: threading display strange

[Tassilo Horn]

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Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>> I guess you want gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date and
>> gnus-article-sort-by-most-recent-date because gnus-thread-sort-by-date
>> sorts by the date of the root article.
>
> This is what I thought, but then the summary buffer displays the most
> recent dates first and the beginning of the buffer, which is not what I
> want as in 
>
> @ Start of buffer
> ...
> So this is not what I want:
> I want the most recent message at the end of the buffer not at the
> beginning

Then negate the sorting functions:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
gnus-thread-sort-functions is a variable defined in ‘gnus-sum.el’.

...

Documentation:
...

Each list item can also be a list ‘(not F)’ where F is a
function; this specifies reversed sort order.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

BTW, there's also gnus-subthread-sort-functions which would allow you
to, e.g., have threads with the newest articles on top while still have
subthreads sorted chronologically from top (older) to bottom (newer).

Bye,
Tassilo

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Re: threading display strange

[Uwe Brauer]

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>>> "TH" == Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>>> I guess you want gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date and
>>> gnus-article-sort-by-most-recent-date because gnus-thread-sort-by-date
>>> sorts by the date of the root article.
>> 
>> This is what I thought, but then the summary buffer displays the most
>> recent dates first and the beginning of the buffer, which is not what I
>> want as in 
>> 
>> @ Start of buffer
>> ...
>> So this is not what I want:
>> I want the most recent message at the end of the buffer not at the
>> beginning

> Then negate the sorting functions:

> gnus-thread-sort-functions is a variable defined in ‘gnus-sum.el’.

Thanks 

I tried 

(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
      '(not gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date))
;;        '(not gnus-thread-sort-by-date))

(setq gnus-sort-functions
      '(not gnus-article-sort-by-most-recent-date))
;;        '(not gnus-article-sort-by-date))


Or 
(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
        '(not gnus-thread-sort-by-date))

(setq gnus-sort-functions
        '(not gnus-article-sort-by-date))


But it does not work, for some strange reason gnus does not sort this
message according to its number or date. (But thunderbird does)

Here is a step to step description of how to obtain this (strange
behavior)

1. Set gnus-thread-ignore-subject to nil
2. Go to the last message in a given treat, answer it but change the
   subject. Suppose you have Bcc or CC yourself
3. You answer will then be displayed as



[]{ }O  57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
[]{ }OA     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
[]{ }O  57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
[]{ }O  57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
[]{ }O  57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   

And not as it should be 

[]{ }O  57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
[]{ }OA     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
[]{ }O  57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
[]{ }O  57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
[]{ }O  57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   

Could that be a bug?

Uwe 

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Re: threading display strange

[Tassilo Horn]

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Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> I tried 
>
> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
>       '(not gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date))
> ;;        '(not gnus-thread-sort-by-date))
>
> (setq gnus-sort-functions
>       '(not gnus-article-sort-by-most-recent-date))
> ;;        '(not gnus-article-sort-by-date))
>
>
> Or 
> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
>         '(not gnus-thread-sort-by-date))
>
> (setq gnus-sort-functions
>         '(not gnus-article-sort-by-date))

Those are all invalid.  The variables' values must all be lists, and in
order to negate an entry, you'd turn it into a list with car equal to
not, e.g., it should be:

(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
      '((not gnus-thread-sort-by-number)
	(not gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date)))

> And not as it should be 
>
> []{ }O  57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
> []{ }OA     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
> []{ }O  57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
> []{ }O  57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
> []{ }O  57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   

Sorry, I don't see how the sorting is here.  Converted to UTC, the times
here are

- 13:30:41
- 09:35:45
- 02:00:07
- 08:00:27
- 18:04:34

and they are not ordered monotonically.  So which criterion do you
actually want to use for sorting.

FWIW, that's what I use.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
				   gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date
				   gnus-thread-sort-by-total-score)
      gnus-subthread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
				      gnus-article-sort-by-date))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


This gives me high-score threads on top, and when the thread scores are
equal, the thread with a newer message is above the other.

Inside a thread, e.g., when there are multiple replies to the very same
article, I sort chronologically with older above newer messages (so that
I don't read the second reply before the first).

Bye,
Tassilo

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Re: threading display strange

[Uwe Brauer]

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> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> Those are all invalid.  The variables' values must all be lists, and in
> order to negate an entry, you'd turn it into a list with car equal to
> not, e.g., it should be:

> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
>       '((not gnus-thread-sort-by-number)
> 	(not gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date)))


I tried that out, and it did not result in what I want

> Sorry, I don't see how the sorting is here.  Converted to UTC, the times
> here are

> - 13:30:41
> - 09:35:45
> - 02:00:07
> - 08:00:27
> - 18:04:34

> and they are not ordered monotonically.  So which criterion do you
> actually want to use for sorting.



Well if the date and time is too messy, I'd say I would like to sort by
number, but I want it montonically indepent whether threading is on or off

So again.

With threading on I see


 57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
 57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
 57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
 57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   


But it should be displayed as 

 57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
 57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
 57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
 57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   


That is what Thunderbird does and it looks more natural to me. 
Did I explain clear enough what I want?


With treading off I see (when switching again to sort by numbers)

[]{ }O  57619 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [Mail Archives            ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 15:46:43 +0200 0.7k 2   
[]{ }O  57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
[]{ }O  57622 [  Uwe Braue] JUAN JULIA  [Re: Final de las clase   ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:11:26 +0200 8.7k 14   


That is fine, just don't understand why gnus sorts:


 57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
 57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
 57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
 57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   



> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
> 				   gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date
> 				   gnus-thread-sort-by-total-score)
>       gnus-subthread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
> 				      gnus-article-sort-by-date))

I tried that out did not work.

> This gives me high-score threads on top, and when the thread scores are
> equal, the thread with a newer message is above the other.

> Inside a thread, e.g., when there are multiple replies to the very same
> article, I sort chronologically with older above newer messages (so that
> I don't read the second reply before the first).

Right, I do the same



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Re: threading display strange

[Tassilo Horn]

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Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>> and they are not ordered monotonically.  So which criterion do you
>> actually want to use for sorting.
>
> Well if the date and time is too messy, I'd say I would like to sort by
> number, but I want it montonically indepent whether threading is on or off

I think, thus should be

(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number)
      gnus-article-sort-functions '(gnus-article-sort-by-number))
      
then.

> But it should be displayed as 
>
>  57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
>      57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
>  57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
>  57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
>  57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
>
> That is what Thunderbird does and it looks more natural to me. 
> Did I explain clear enough what I want?

Well, above you've said you want to sort by number and then you present
an example which is not sorted by number... I don't know how thunderbird
sorts, so I cannot come up with a "just like thunderbird" configuration.

>> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
>> 				   gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date
>> 				   gnus-thread-sort-by-total-score)
>>       gnus-subthread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
>> 				      gnus-article-sort-by-date))
>
> I tried that out did not work.

If it gives a different result for you than for me that's really strange
given that be both seem to use quite similar Emacs/Gnus versions.
Sorry, I don't have any ideas left.

BTW, you can also re-sort the summary buffer interactively using the
commands bound to the C-c C-s prefix.  That's probably quicker to find a
sorting version that suits your needs.

Bye,
Tassilo

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Re: threading display strange

[Uwe Brauer]

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>>> "TH" == Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>>> and they are not ordered monotonically.  So which criterion do you
>>> actually want to use for sorting.
>> 
>> Well if the date and time is too messy, I'd say I would like to sort by
>> number, but I want it montonically indepent whether threading is on or off

> I think, thus should be

> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number)
>       gnus-article-sort-functions '(gnus-article-sort-by-number))


This was my first setting.

      
> then.

>> But it should be displayed as 
>> 
>> 57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
>> 57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
>> 57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
>> 57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
>> 57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
>> 
>> That is what Thunderbird does and it looks more natural to me. 
>> Did I explain clear enough what I want?

> Well, above you've said you want to sort by number and then you present
> an example which is not sorted by number... I don't know how thunderbird
> sorts, so I cannot come up with a "just like thunderbird" configuration.

Right, it should be

 57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   
 57593 [  users    ] oub@mat.uc  [Subject: Digest of users@] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 08:00:27 +0000 (UTC) 38k 11   
 57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
 57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
 57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   

My point being, that gnus does not sort it according to its own numbering.




> BTW, you can also re-sort the summary buffer interactively using the
> commands bound to the C-c C-s prefix.  That's probably quicker to find a
> sorting version that suits your needs.

My feeling is, there is a bug in gnus, sort by numbers does not work,
when threading is on. Maybe later I send a bug report.

Thanks for your help

Uwe 

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Re: threading display strange

[Tassilo Horn]

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Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>> I think, thus should be
>
>> (setq gnus-thread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number)
>>       gnus-article-sort-functions '(gnus-article-sort-by-number))
>
> This was my first setting.
>
> My point being, that gnus does not sort it according to its own numbering.

I think now understand the misunderstanding.

gnus-article-sort-functions is only used when threading is off,
whereas gnus-thread-sort-functions is only used if threading is on.
Hence, the problem must be in the latter.

Now when you use threading and have gnus-thread-sort-functions set to
gnus-thread-sort-by-number, it'll sort by the number of the article that
started the thread, and that article might even not be visible.

Is it possible that this causes the confusion?  You could find out by
checking if at least the complete threads are sorted correctly.  At threads
which seem to appear at the wrong position, hit ^ repeatedly until the
root article is visible.  Are they sorted according to number then?

Anyway, you might want to try setting both gnus-thread-sort-functions to
'(gnus-article-sort-by-number), too.  That would sort according to the
current article's number, not the root article's number.

Bye,
Tassilo

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Re: threading display strange

[Uwe Brauer]

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> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> I think now understand the misunderstanding.

> gnus-article-sort-functions is only used when threading is off,
> whereas gnus-thread-sort-functions is only used if threading is on.
> Hence, the problem must be in the latter.


Agreed.


> Now when you use threading and have gnus-thread-sort-functions set to
> gnus-thread-sort-by-number, it'll sort by the number of the article that
> started the thread, and that article might even not be visible.

> Is it possible that this causes the confusion?  You could find out by
> checking if at least the complete threads are sorted correctly.  At threads
> which seem to appear at the wrong position, hit ^ repeatedly until the
> root article is visible.  Are they sorted according to number then?


I think the source of the problem is my setting 
gnus-thread-ignore-subject to nil.

What I did was to answer a message in the thread, but changed the
subject.
Then gnus considered my answer not as part of the treat, so far so good. 

However gnus decided to place this message, right after the thread,
because it was somehow connected to that thread. That is a valid design
decision. 

However I would prefer if gnus would just sort according to its number
idependently whether the message has its orgin in a thread. 

I can of course get this behavior by changing the subject and remove all
the references manually. However that is quite inconvenient.

> Anyway, you might want to try setting both gnus-thread-sort-functions to
> '(gnus-article-sort-by-number), too.  That would sort according to the
> current article's number, not the root article's number.

I tried 
(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number)
      gnus-subthread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number)
      gnus-article-sort-functions '(gnus-article-sort-by-number))

But the behavior does not change I still see.

 57606 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[CV] (was: [Amnu 19])    ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:30:41 +0200 8.8k 6   
     57609 [ +henar de ] Uwe Brauer  [                         ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:35:45 +0000 10k 13   
 57621 [  Uwe Braue] Uwe Brauer  [[stuff] (was: [CV])      ] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:04:34 +0200 9.4k 16   
 57585 [  tex-d-l-r] tex-d-l@li  [tex-d-l Nachrichtenkompil] Sun, 28 Apr 2019 00:00:07 +0200 13k 165   

Again message 57621 was somehow in the thread but I changed the subject.

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