Re: Proposed new introductory section to the Gnus manual

[Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>]

Michael <beriah@opensuse.us> writes:

> On 9/10/19 3:50 PM, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>> dick <dick.r.chiang@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> EA> Gnus has a lot of variables with
>>> EA> pretty convoluted value-structures. I wonder if its Customize support is
>>> EA> currently up to snuff
>>>
>>> It is not.  One such convoluted value-structure is `gnus-parameters`.
>>> Configuring that via the Customize interface is like digging a ditch with a
>>> toy shovel.  Even a basic parameter like `gnus-secondary-select-methods`
>>> requires knowledge of how a Gnus METHOD is composed.
>> Yeah, I suppose. Customize just wasn't meant to handle values that
>> complicated. Gnus also has its own home-grown (of course) "edit forms"
>> (gnus-eform.el) which currently just dump you in an elisp buffer where
>> you have to edit elisp forms, but could be smarter about
>> presenting/parsing complicated values in a user-friendly way.
>>
>>> It bears repeating that introducing `gnus-secondary-select-methods` instead of
>>> vectorizing `gnus-select-method` was a mistake that can still be
>>> corrected fairly easily.
>> That's on my list of things to do, but as a user-facing change, it's at
>> the bottom of the list.
>>
>>
> I really like Gnus and I have tried to use it a couple of times, but
> always gave up. It is getting harder for me, at my age, to 
> remember/memorize all the different commands.

A hindrance for users at any age :) There are whole aspects of Gnus
(scoring, spam, agent categories, etc) that I have never touched, simply
because I couldn't be bothered with the learning curve.

> Not knowing lisp is for me also a hindrance.
>
> However, I want to thank you for working on the introduction and the
> quick guide. It has given me a better understanding. With that, and
> the added links posted, I'm getting more familiar with how to use Gnus
> and close to using it for all my news and email :)
>
> I'd love to help since I'm just an old retired man, but don't know
> enough to help :)

With all due respect, your ignorance of Gnus might be just the thing we
need :) I think most people on this list remember that the early
experience was bad, but don't really remember the details, or what would
have helped. If you kept an eye on discussion here, and piped up
whenever a bit of information seemed a) nonsensical or b) just the thing
you needed to figure out a problem, that might be the biggest help you
could provide.

For instance, what part of my intro (and the other links posted in this
thread) was most useful?

Thanks!
Eric